First-time owner of a 7800. Have a few questions.

[shigs42]

So, I've looked around this site for a while, but really haven't gotten back into the retro gaming scene until I saw the Atari Age booth at the Portland Retro Gaming Expo. I loved it!! It's one thing to see the homebrew games on the site but playing brand new Atari games in person really brought me around. I HAD to get into the homebrew scene! Luckily, my local game store had a used 7800 in stock and a copy of Pac-Man Collection. I picked that up along with Food Fight and a few 2600 classics. So now, I have a few questions...

1.) Is there any way to get a good picture on a modern TV? The system came with an F-Connector adapter included, but when hooked up to my 4K TV the picture looked terrible. So Fuzzy, I couldn't read "Game Over" on the Pac-Man screen. So, I got my old, 13-inch boob-tube out of storage and am now playing my 7800 on that. This is probably the best way, but is there any way to get an RF signal converted to HDMI or RCA? I'm not too big a tech head.

2.) Can Harmony/2600 homebrews work on a 7800? I imagine so, but I want to be sure.

3.) Are all homebrew carts a bit larger than the old ones? Pac-Man Collection is a tight fit.

4.) Can you recommend a good controller for the system? The ones that came with it are garbage. They worked okay, but the joystick felt like it was gonna snap, and the controller was making cracking sounds if gripped too tight. Luckily my Genesis controller works with it, but only one button and some 7800 games are two-button games. Any suggestions?

5.) Any non-homebrew recommendations? I love Food Fight. What's your favorite?

[+slx]

39 minutes ago, shigs42 said:

So, I've looked around this site for a while, but really haven't gotten back into the retro gaming scene until I saw the Atari Age booth at the Portland Retro Gaming Expo. I loved it!! It's one thing to see the homebrew games on the site but playing brand new Atari games in person really brought me around. I HAD to get into the homebrew scene! Luckily, my local game store had a used 7800 in stock and a copy of Pac-Man Collection. I picked that up along with Food Fight and a few 2600 classics. So now, I have a few questions...

1.) Is there any way to get a good picture on a modern TV? The system came with an F-Connector adapter included, but when hooked up to my 4K TV the picture looked terrible. So Fuzzy, I couldn't read "Game Over" on the Pac-Man screen. So, I got my old, 13-inch boob-tube out of storage and am now playing my 7800 on that. This is probably the best way, but is there any way to get an RF signal converted to HDMI or RCA? I'm not too big a tech head.

2.) Can Harmony/2600 homebrews work on a 7800? I imagine so, but I want to be sure.

3.) Are all homebrew carts a bit larger than the old ones? Pac-Man Collection is a tight fit.

4.) Can you recommend a good controller for the system? The ones that came with it are garbage. They worked okay, but the joystick felt like it was gonna snap, and the controller was making cracking sounds if gripped too tight. Luckily my Genesis controller works with it, but only one button and some 7800 games are two-button games. Any suggestions?

5.) Any non-homebrew recommendations? I love Food Fight. What's your favorite?

1) No luck with RF to modern TV but you can mod the machine for Composite and or S-Video output and try that or additionaly go through a converter like RetroTink for best quality. 
 

2) most 2600 carts should work, AFAIK Harmony does as well but there is a dedicated Concerto SD cart for the 7800 (that will also allow to add a Pokey or Pokeymax for better sound in some games).

 

3) don‘t know

 

4) modded Genesis controllers or same with an Edladdin Seagull adapter or Edladdin arcade style controllers are considered top. There are other homebrew controllers around if you search the forum. 
 

5) Asteroids is a good version, Joust as well. Playing too little, so leave more answers to others. 

[+wongojack]

1

There are RF to HDMI converters.  More common are composite "demodulators" which is what you'd find in a VCR, but your TV will need a composite input for that.  Check these threads, the topic comes up all the time:

 

https://forums.atariage.com/topic/318510-getting-my-2600-to-work-on-hdmi-tv/?do=findComment&comment=4781521

https://forums.atariage.com/topic/317762-a-good-cheap-rf-signal-to-composite-or-hdmi-converter/?do=findComment&comment=4776434

https://forums.atariage.com/topic/312715-rf-to-rca-or-composite-adapter/?do=findComment&comment=4660798

https://forums.atariage.com/topic/213559-has-anyone-tried-a-demodulator-like-this-with-their-atari/?do=findComment&comment=2785023

 

2

Yes, the Harmony cart works and so do homebrews.  There are some variations between the various 7800 models, so some irregularities are out there, but you can always post and ask on these forums if a specific Homebrew will work.  Someone will have already tried it.

 

3

Most homebrews are made from donor carts, so it will be Combat or PacMan etc.  They should fit fine in a 7800, but again, there are variations on the 7800 and some have a tighter fit than others.  MANY people actually break the plastic guide in one corner on purpose to make it easier for carts to fit.  You can also buy something like the Lock-On:  https://forums.atariage.com/topic/307576-lock-on-2600/

 

4

You want Seagull 78 Seagull 78 (edladdin.com)

 

5

Can't go wrong with Food Fight, and I honestly really like the 7800 version of Donkey Kong Jr.  People complain about the TIA sounds, but I like the game a lot.  I also tend to have fun with Pole Position II, but others won't hesitate to tell you I am wrong.  Ninja Golf and Basketbrawl both have some nice Atari vibes to them too, but they are a bit harder to track down. 

[Shawn]

56 minutes ago, wongojack said:

 

3

Most homebrews are made from donor carts, so it will be Combat or PacMan etc.  They should fit fine in a 7800, but again, there are variations on the 7800 and some have a tighter fit than others.

 

 

Not so much. There are very few who use donors outside of shells anymore. And it would be common 7800 games not 2600 games like combat as you mentioned. There is not a single release of combat I'm aware if that was in a 7800 style she'll and if there was it would be pretty rare and not used as a donor cart. Pacman was released Ina 7800 style shell at the end of the retail life of the 2600 but again, very uncommon to find. Usually ends up in the hands of a variant collector vs into a donor pile. 

[+Stephen Moss]

3 hours ago, shigs42 said:

1.) Is there any way to get a good picture on a modern TV?

Some sets have a setting for gaming, of yours has that have you tried to see if that is any improvement. Also some of the analogue tuners n newer sets are not infinitely variable, they just try set frequencies so if you are a little off with not way to fine adjust it could be that it is simply a little out of tune.   

[juansolo]

8 hours ago, shigs42 said:

1.) Is there any way to get a good picture on a modern TV?

If it's an NTSC 7800 add a UAV and run it as S-Video. It's the best option currently. Add a chroma shift from @-^CrossBow^- if you want it pretty much as good as it gets (from original hardware, best possible currently will be from a MiSTer FPGA). If it's a PAL machine... Send it to us, we'll do what we can, but I'd recommend selling it now before you get too deep in, and swapping it for an NTSC machine.

8 hours ago, shigs42 said:

2.) Can Harmony/2600 homebrews work on a 7800? I imagine so, but I want to be sure.

Yup, good with most 2600 flashcarts. Pluscart works just fine. Homebrews, keep to the correct region on the 7800 side of things and they should be fine. 2600 homebrews can be a little hit and miss on some 7800s. On NTSC machines you tend to be more ok, PAL machines less so. There is massive variability in 7800 hardware and odd ones can be problematic in that regard, and not just with homebrew...

 

As for 7800 Flashcarts, the Concerto is the only one currently available. The Dragonfly was the other, but that's currently OOP due to the parts shortage.

8 hours ago, shigs42 said:

3.) Are all homebrew carts a bit larger than the old ones? Pac-Man Collection is a tight fit.

This tends to just be a tolerance thing. Some are tighter than others. Whenever I deal with a 7800 I'll try some known tight carts and then attack the cup with a Dremmel (two screws hidden by tape to remove, don't do it in situ). Our theory is that the molds were getting old on some machines, would explain the variability.

8 hours ago, shigs42 said:

4.) Can you recommend a good controller for the system? The ones that came with it are garbage. They worked okay, but the joystick felt like it was gonna snap, and the controller was making cracking sounds if gripped too tight. Luckily my Genesis controller works with it, but only one button and some 7800 games are two-button games. Any suggestions?

The UK 7800 gamepad is actually ok and can be made quite excellent by swapping the fire to tac switches. Otherwise @Bratwurst's Arcade Joystick is a thing of absolute beauty and is the way to go.

8 hours ago, shigs42 said:

5.) Any non-homebrew recommendations? I love Food Fight. What's your favorite?

Pole Position II, Asteroids, Galaga, Food Fight, Centipede (though it's better to get the TrakBall version of that from AtariAge), DigDug, Joust, Robotron 2084. Ms Pac-Man also but if you have Bob's Pac-Man Collection, you've got Pac-Man pretty much covered.

[+x=usr(1536)]

5 hours ago, Stephen Moss said:

Also some of the analogue tuners n newer sets are not infinitely variable, they just try set frequencies so if you are a little off with not way to fine adjust it could be that it is simply a little out of tune.   

This.  Also, many modern tuners are either a) digital-only (no analogue tuning at all), b) given no design priority so are poorly-made, or c) a combination of the two.

 

In general, with a modern TV, the newer it is the more crap the analogue RF capabilities are.  We have three Samsungs made at various times over the past ten years, and going from newer to older really shows this up.

 

Best bet is to check thrift stores for older models.  I've grabbed a couple from the 2010 timeframe that have had really good RF input by going that route.

[Silver Back]

The rest of the topics are well covered it seems, but just to touch on the controller bit there are a ton of great options today. More than likely the seagull adapter will be your most cost effective solution if you already have Genesis pads. Outside of that the UK pads are okay but hard to track down.  I have one of @Bratwurst arcade sticks and it works fantastic but if you want something more like a gamepad may I recommend retrogameboyz 7800 pad. Comes in several varieties and colors, with or without thumbsticks, with rounded or concave buttons etc.  There's some other stuff floating around, and if you do want a UK pad check out Best Electronics for their gold rebuild controllers or kits. 

 

I made a post going over several options I've found and other users pointed out some stuff too so I'll dig it up when I get a minute. 

 

Edit: if you are interested in retrogameboyz you can find their stuff on eBay, Etsy or Google for their website.

 

Best Electronics has a maze of a website but they only take orders over the phone as far as I know. Make sure you know what you want when you call. 

 

Edit 2: Here's my previous post with controllers I've found a long with what other users have. https://forums.atariage.com/topic/330256-atari-7800-controller-options/

Edited November 10, 2022 by Silver Back
Added where some items can be found

[Trebor]

9 hours ago, shigs42 said:

5.) Any non-homebrew recommendations? I love Food Fight. What's your favorite?

These titles: Xevious, Xenophobe, Tower Toppler, Robotron: 2084, Pole Position II, Ninja Golf, Ms. Pac-Man*, Motor Psycho, Midnight Mutants, Joust, Ikari Warriors, Galaga, Food Fight, Dig Dug, Desert Falcon, Dark Chambers, Crossbow, Commando, Centipede, Basketbrawl, Ballblazer, Asteroids**, Alien Brigade.

 

Homebrew substitutions: 

*Pac-Man Collection (160 Mode); there is a POKEY version too that hopefully will become available again.  Also, the newly released, soon to be available in the Atari Age store, Pac-Man Collection - 40th Anniversary Edition (320 Mode - Vertical Scrolling), first released at (P)ortland (R)etro (G)aming (E)xpo.

**Asteroids Deluxe.

[edladdin]

I really appreciate the numerous mentions of our Seagull 78 controller adapter and our arcade controllers!   Edladdin Controllers was born specifically because I bought my first 7800 back in 2013 and was immediately dismayed to see that the games were great but the controllers were pure garbage.  

 

We are an official AtariAge vendor, so you can buy with confidence through the AA Store:

 

https://atariage.com/store/index.php?l=product_list&c=111

 

Our arcade controllers are more expensive than most other options, but they are built in heavy aluminum cases that are wide enough to rest comfortably on your lap so you can keep a light touch on joystick and fire buttons.  Likewise, we use authentic Sanwa joysticks and Suzo-Happ pushbuttons, so there are no cheap knockoff parts under the hood.  And you get to choose your own mix of joystick ball color(s) and buttons, so its customized for you.   Lastly, we have two 2600/7800-centric controllers in the lineup: the Super 78 and the twin stick Super Twin 78.  We also offer a "Super Combo" that will drive not only the two Atari consoles, but also classic ColecoVision and the Collectorvision Phoenix.   Its more expensive, but if you have or plan to add ColecoVision to your retro arsenal, you have the option to get the controller that will serve all three.

[grownup]

Atariage sells a simple adapter. Purchase this and start playing. This isn't rocket science:

 

https://atariage.com/store/index.php?l=product_detail&p=42

[Trebor]

4 minutes ago, grownup said:

Atariage sells a simple adapter. Purchase this and start playing. This isn't rocket science:

 

https://atariage.com/store/index.php?l=product_detail&p=42

Indeed, it is not rocket science.  Fundamental reading does need to be utilized though:

On 11/9/2022 at 11:50 PM, shigs42 said:

1.) Is there any way to get a good picture on a modern TV? The system came with an F-Connector adapter included, but when hooked up to my 4K TV the picture looked terrible. So Fuzzy, I couldn't read "Game Over" on the Pac-Man screen. So, I got my old, 13-inch boob-tube out of storage and am now playing my 7800 on that. This is probably the best way, but is there any way to get an RF signal converted to HDMI or RCA? I'm not too big a tech head.

[Ecernosoft]

On 11/9/2022 at 11:50 PM, shigs42 said:

So, I've looked around this site for a while, but really haven't gotten back into the retro gaming scene until I saw the Atari Age booth at the Portland Retro Gaming Expo. I loved it!! It's one thing to see the homebrew games on the site but playing brand new Atari games in person really brought me around. I HAD to get into the homebrew scene! Luckily, my local game store had a used 7800 in stock and a copy of Pac-Man Collection. I picked that up along with Food Fight and a few 2600 classics. So now, I have a few questions...

1.) Is there any way to get a good picture on a modern TV? The system came with an F-Connector adapter included, but when hooked up to my 4K TV the picture looked terrible. So Fuzzy, I couldn't read "Game Over" on the Pac-Man screen. So, I got my old, 13-inch boob-tube out of storage and am now playing my 7800 on that. This is probably the best way, but is there any way to get an RF signal converted to HDMI or RCA? I'm not too big a tech head.

2.) Can Harmony/2600 homebrews work on a 7800? I imagine so, but I want to be sure.

3.) Are all homebrew carts a bit larger than the old ones? Pac-Man Collection is a tight fit.

4.) Can you recommend a good controller for the system? The ones that came with it are garbage. They worked okay, but the joystick felt like it was gonna snap, and the controller was making cracking sounds if gripped too tight. Luckily my Genesis controller works with it, but only one button and some 7800 games are two-button games. Any suggestions?

5.) Any non-homebrew recommendations? I love Food Fight. What's your favorite?

First owner?

I have a 7800 too, and you will need to think about some stuff.

1. Do I want to mod my 7800 for better video?

2. Not all 2600 games work on 7800 properly, so there’s that too…

3. Do I have the LD port?

4. What kind of 7800 do I have? (pal/ntsc)

 

Those are the main things you’d want to think about. Other than that, I think that you made the right choice going with the 7800.

Make sure you get a Concerto or Dragonfly (and a pokey for your choice) so you can experience games like Bentley bear (@Pacmanplus), It’s Conner time 1, 2, and 3, as well as view awesome demos from smart people like @Eagle! Still baffled at how he makes the 7800 do stuff though!

 

[JagChris]

On 11/9/2022 at 8:50 PM, shigs42 said:

So, I've looked around this site for a while, but really haven't gotten back into the retro gaming scene until I saw the Atari Age booth at the Portland Retro Gaming Expo. I loved it!! It's one thing to see the homebrew games on the site but playing brand new Atari games in person really brought me around. I HAD to get into the homebrew scene! Luckily, my local game store had a used 7800 in stock and a copy of Pac-Man Collection. I picked that up along with Food Fight and a few 2600 classics. So now, I have a few questions...

1.) Is there any way to get a good picture on a modern TV? The system came with an F-Connector adapter included, but when hooked up to my 4K TV the picture looked terrible. So Fuzzy, I couldn't read "Game Over" on the Pac-Man screen. So, I got my old, 13-inch boob-tube out of storage and am now playing my 7800 on that. This is probably the best way, but is there any way to get an RF signal converted to HDMI or RCA? I'm not too big a tech head.

Does it look like this? This is what my 7800 looks like after hooking it up to my fairly new TV via RF.

 

 

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

 

1 hour ago, JagChris said:

Does it look like this? This is what my 7800 looks like after hooking it up to my fairly new TV via RF.

 

Have you tried changing the position of the channel select switch on the 7800?  It almost looks as though the signal is on an adjacent channel.

 

FWIW, you may also want to confirm that your TV is capable of receiving NTSC (analogue) broadcasts.  If it only receives ATSC (digital), the TV won't display the 7800's video output.  At that point, you'll want to look into A/V modifications such as the UAV and use either composite or S-Video output.

[JagChris]

21 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Have you tried changing the position of the channel select switch on the 7800?  It almost looks as though the signal is on an adjacent channel.

 

FWIW, you may also want to confirm that your TV is capable of receiving NTSC (analogue) broadcasts.  If it only receives ATSC (digital), the TV won't display the 7800's video output.  At that point, you'll want to look into A/V modifications such as the UAV and use either composite or S-Video output.

Thank you. Just bought it sans power supply. Ordered one from best and just got it. Thing didn't turn on at first.after plugging unplugging Really tight fit power supply a few times it worked. 

 

I will try the channel selector again but had no luck earlier. That ocvured to me as well. Tv has to rescan every time with system on if not mistaken.

 

Ill look into the other things you mentioned.

 

 

Thank you again.

[JagChris]

Will this item work? Am I reading right that it's RF to AV etc?

 

https://a.co/d/6AMXRwh

 

 

Edited January 9, 2023 by JagChris

[JagChris]

The description is a little unclear and appears to not be what I need.

 

I'll have to wait and get the 7800 recapped, modded.

[JagChris]

21 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

 

 

Have you tried changing the position of the channel select switch on the 7800?  It almost looks as though the signal is on an adjacent channel.

 

FWIW, you may also want to confirm that your TV is capable of receiving NTSC (analogue) broadcasts.  If it only receives ATSC (digital), the TV won't display the 7800's video output.  At that point, you'll want to look into A/V modifications such as the UAV and use either composite or S-Video output.

I tried changing the channel with similar results. While I am not sure how to determine ATSC or not it appears I need to just get it nodded at some point. 

 

Only reasonably priced RF demodulator I can find 

 

https://a.co/d/afGjwMo

[+x=usr(1536)]

22 minutes ago, JagChris said:

I tried changing the channel with similar results. While I am not sure how to determine ATSC or not it appears I need to just get it nodded at some point.

ATSC or not would need to be checked against the specs of your TV.  Some of them don't even list it as a feature, so this may take some digging.  Sorry it's not better news.

22 minutes ago, JagChris said:

Only reasonably priced RF demodulator I can find 

 

https://a.co/d/afGjwMo

Looking at it, it appears to use an IEC (European) antenna connector.  Assuming that the photo is correct, you'll need an adapter to convert that to the F-Type connector used in North America, followed by an F-Type to RCA adapter to allow plugging in the 7800.  I'm not aware of an adapter that goes straight from IEC to RCA, but if one exists please let the rest of us know 

[JagChris]

1 minute ago, x=usr(1536) said:

ATSC or not would need to be checked against the specs of your TV.  Some of them don't even list it as a feature, so this may take some digging.  Sorry it's not better news.

 

Looking at it, it appears to use an IEC (European) antenna connector.  Assuming that the photo is correct, you'll need an adapter to convert that to the F-Type connector used in North America, followed by an F-Type to RCA adapter to allow plugging in the 7800.

Yes the TV is an inexpensive Polaroid. Digging through menus revealed nothing regarding ATSC.

 

Yes on second point. I read that in the reviews. Strange it lists US version with no appropriate connection shown.

 

It's occurred to me that the RF picture is so poor because it is possible the system just needs recapping.

 

Or maybe a good cart connector cleaning. Console side. Multiple carts have same result.

[+Mitch]

7800s rarely need recapping, most likely it is your TV. See if you can find an old CRT TV at a thrift store to test with. Usually they are only a couple of dollars and if you don't have the space to keep it, you could always donate it back.

 

Mitch

[+x=usr(1536)]

3 minutes ago, JagChris said:

Yes the TV is an inexpensive Polaroid. Digging through menus revealed nothing regarding ATSC.

Just to clarify: what you want is NTSC.  ATSC tuners can include NTSC, but not always.  Sorry for any confusion; it should be NTSC you're looking to confirm.

3 minutes ago, JagChris said:

Yes on second point. I read that in the reviews. Strange it lists US version with no appropriate connection shown.

I'm going to hazard a guess that all that 'US Version' means in this case is that it can handle NTSC.  Not surprised to see the IEC antenna connector on there, though: I've had a number of Chinese-sourced items over the years do things like that.

3 minutes ago, JagChris said:

It's occurred to me that the RF picture is so poor because it is possible the system just needs recapping.

While it is possible, I'm not a fan of recapping unless there's a proven need for it.  FWIW, none of the three main electrolytic caps (which is all that a cap kit will replace) in the 7800 touch video output, so while they can be replaced, unless they're actually bulging or have exploded there's no guarantee that they'll fix anything.

 

I'm wondering if maybe there isn't internal damage to the RF cable.  Have you tried one from another system?

 

It's also possible that the RF modulator itself is bad, but let's focus on the other items for now.

3 minutes ago, JagChris said:

Or maybe a good cart connector cleaning. Console side. Multiple carts have same result.

Strongly recommended.

[JagChris]

RF connector. Using the Jags RCA out type cable to auto switchbox-> coax setup. I believe I have another from second Jag. Will try that out if console side cart connector cleaning doesn't work.

 

Connector cleaning. Not sure if 7800 needs cart inserted to turn on. When I first plugged everything in it didn't work. No light, nothing. Only after plugging unplugging cart and power connector from unit a few times did it finally power up.

 

If it needs a cart inserted for power than that likely means connector is a big mess. Will get to scrubbing. Gently.

 

P.S. power connector is a really odd tight PITA.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

No, the console will power on with out a cartridge inserted. Most likely the power button is shot and corroded internally and likely needs replaced out. Very common on the 7800 hence why I've got a LOT of them on hand here when servicing them. As for the power connector being tight, it shouldn't be because it is keyed and will only fit in one direction. So, make sure you are plugging it in the correct way or you will cook something internally due to inverse polarity form plugging it in wrong.

 

Another thing to check is if the RCA jack off the RF modulator is loose and turning at all? If so, then you could have a broken RF wire to that RCA jack and it is just barely making a connection or none at all but close enough to barely register and give you the out of tune picture you are getting.

 

But the fact that a picture is there, is a good sign of life in the console so if you did decide to AV upgrade it, it should be a good candidate for it.