What do you think of the NES "dogbone" controller?

[MaximRecoil]

The rounded shape was comfortable like an SNES controller, and it would have been great if it had been made like this:

 

Or like this:

 

But instead they made it like this:

 

 

Why? The angle of those buttons is the opposite of the natural angle of your thumb when holding the controller in the usual way. They put the B & A buttons at the same angle on the SNES controller, and the Y & X buttons too, but fortunately, many SNES games allow you to change the button configuration, so I set Y & B as my two main buttons when possible, which are at the same angle as in the second picture I posted. Some SNES games even have Y & B as the default main buttons in the first place, ignoring Nintendo's awkwardly angled button pairing scheme, such as Super Castlevania IV:

 

[Austin]

It's a comfy controller, but I agree that the angled buttons aren't ideal for certain games. I'll bust it out for certain titles, but in general I stick with the rectangular controller.

[Tanooki]

I've never had a concern problem or less well handled gameplay moment using that vs the original boxy style controller.  All you're doing is shifting the thumb side by side a little between B and A instead of having to reach further between the pair or rocking the thumb over both fast for proper effect based on the title.

 

Over time I just don't bother with the original on the original, dogbone just feels more comfy to grip and as nice to use in gaming.  That short circuit, that's with you, not bad design.  They just took the smart SNES style and put the 2 buttons centered instead of 2x2 centered, that's all.  Never had to re-assign buttons on my SNES games either just to play, that's just weird in most cases.  The one stand out where I did it, I stuffed medium punch/kick to L/R on top as it's easier that way for fighting games.

[MaximRecoil]

1 hour ago, Tanooki said:

That short circuit, that's with you, not bad design.

I don't know what you mean by "short circuit" in this context, but it's a bad design. When the two buttons are horizontally inline like with the original controller, or angled so that the A button is lower than the B button, your thumb can easily cover both buttons at once while holding the controller in the usual way. In order to do that with the design they went with your thumb has to be angled like this:

 

 

Who wants to hold a controller like that?

 

When your thumb is angled in the usual way, to use both buttons you'd lift your thumb off one and place it on the other, which isn't as fast or fluid as simply rocking your thumb back and forth while it's covering both buttons. And it especially sucks in games where you have to hold one button while intermittently pressing the other, such as Super Mario Bros. (hold B to run, press A to jump).

 

1 hour ago, Tanooki said:

Never had to re-assign buttons on my SNES games either just to play, that's just weird in most cases.

 

If you like wrong-angled buttons, I'd think you'd want to reassign the whip and the jump buttons in Super Castlevania IV to B & A or Y & X. That would make it like a NES dogbone controller layout for the two main buttons in that game. Konami had better sense than Nintendo in this case, so they assigned the main two buttons to Y & B by default:

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by MaximRecoil

[mbd39]

I've never tried one. I dislike the positioning of the A and B buttons so never tried it.

 

 

[Tanooki]

Hah If on that doctored image you're holding the controller with a thumb in that direction I have to ask, did you have a physical injury?  That's nuts.  All you have to do is barely wiggle your thumb left and right with the tip pointing towards where the cord attached, this isn't rocket science.  You barely even need to move a thing to rapid fire between either for intense megaman, contra, etc sessions...or just the combo of the run+jump of SMB style stuff.  I don't even grasp how this confuses you.  That hold style is how you use a SNES controller too, it's just double stacked with X/Y.  You're reaching in another post, starting to see a pattern here so maybe it's best we just don't agree because you're already doubling down.

[MaximRecoil]

1 hour ago, Tanooki said:

Hah If on that doctored image you're holding the controller with a thumb in that direction I have to ask, did you have a physical injury?

That's the only way you can hold it if you want to be able to rock your thumb back and forth to press each button. And no, I don't hold it that way because I don't use the dogbone controller at all, because it has wrong-angled buttons.

 

1 hour ago, Tanooki said:

All you have to do is barely wiggle your thumb left and right with the tip pointing towards where the cord attached, this isn't rocket science.

"Wiggle your thumb left and right"? Do you mean moving your thumb from button to button? If so, that sucks, because it's slow and it doesn't work at all for when you have to use both buttons simultaneously. If you mean, place your thumb between the two buttons (partially covering each one in the process) and rolling it side to side, that works, but I don't find that as comfortable/natural as rocking my thumb back and forth.

 

1 hour ago, Tanooki said:

I don't even grasp how this confuses you.

Since there's nothing to indicate that I'm "confused," this is a non sequitur from you.

 

There are three ways that people can use their thumb for the main two buttons:

 

1. Cover both of them and rock your thumb back and forth.

2. Place your thumb between the two buttons and roll side to side

3. Move your thumb from button to button.

 

Horizontally-inline buttons (like on the original NES controller) and correct-angled buttons (like Y & B on the SNES controller) are well-suited to all three of those ways, while wrong-angled buttons (like the NES dogbone controller) are only well-suited to #2 and #3, therefore it's a worse design.

1 hour ago, Tanooki said:

That hold style is how you use a SNES controller too, it's just double stacked with X/Y

I don't, and neither does anyone who plays e.g., Super Castlevania IV with the default button configuration. How about a game from Nintendo themselves?

 

That's from the Super Punch-Out manual, and they assigned the two main buttons (left and right punch) to Y & B rather than to the wrong-angled B & A or Y & X pair.

 

ETA: Even Super Mario World, which was the SNES pack-in game, uses Y & B as the main two buttons.

 

When you play an SNES game that has the two main buttons set to the correct-angled Y & B buttons by default, do you change them to the wrong-angled B & A or Y & X buttons?

Edited November 28, 2022 by MaximRecoil

[Tanooki]

Welcome to crazy town population maximum recoil.  I've been using these things since the 80s and 90s respectively, I think I have a better grasp than you do on the mechanics.  I told you I wasn't going to go down this road, you're truly trying to sell a product no one is buying.  Please for your own sanity, stop.  You proved my point of the last response I closed on, you doubled down.

[Wayler]

The SNES controller is a great example how the angled buttons for B and Y work best in tandem, like in racing games where you need a quick and smooth transition from one command to another (F-Zero and Super Mario Kart for example). B is accelerate and Y is brake, it would be awkward to play with another combination (unless it's A and X). The thumb lays on those buttons naturally in that angle. 

 

Time to take a breath on this one Tanooki. The button placement for the NES dogbone controller is bad design. 

[MaximRecoil]

7 hours ago, Tanooki said:

Welcome to crazy town population maximum recoil.

This is another out-of-left-field comment, and where are you seeing the word "maximum"?

 

7 hours ago, Tanooki said:

I've been using these things since the 80s and 90s respectively

No, you haven't, since the dogbone controller didn't exist in the '80s. It was originally included with the top-loader (NES-101), which was introduced in 1993. And I've been using US Nintendo console controllers for nearly as long as anyone; I first used the original NES controller in 1986, the SNES controller in 1992, and the NES dogbone controller in 1994; not that it matters, since it only takes a second after picking up the dogbone controller to notice the awkward angle of the buttons.

 

7 hours ago, Tanooki said:

you're truly trying to sell a product no one is buying.

What are you talking about? Have you even read this thread? So far you're the only one who has defended the angle of the dogbone controller buttons.

 

Also, you didn't answer the question, which was:

 

When you play an SNES game that has the two main buttons set to the Y & B buttons by default, do you change them to the B & A or Y & X buttons?

 

I get why you're avoiding the question, since no matter how you answer it, your answer will contradict things you've already said.

 

Another question: If the angle of the buttons on the dogbone controller is a good design, then why did many SNES games, including some from Nintendo themselves, have Y & B as the main two buttons by default, which are at the opposite angle of the NES dogbone buttons?

Edited November 29, 2022 by MaximRecoil

[alucardX]

I have a couple of those controllers as well as the original design and I always use the "dogbone" controllers. I agree that the "b, a" button alignment is strange but it doesn't get to me too bad if ever.

[Rhomaios]

Not to defend Tanooki (really, truly, honestly!), but I never felt that the angle was "bad" per se. Just not optimal. But thinking about it, yeah, absolutely, I always preferred the rectangle and use Y B as my mains on the SNES controller. It really makes you wonder why on earth they designed it that way.

 

One guess is that making it more difficult (even if just slightly) to reach, going from B to A takes more conscious effort, and they want to encourage that? It's easy, I suppose, to accidentally hit the wrong button if it's too convenient to do so?

 

I'd love to see some justification for the design. But either way, I'm sticking with the original controllers for each console.

[Trinity]

I like the og controller.

[thegamezmaster]

I like it. Never had a problem using it. 

[newtmonkey]

I prefer the dpad and overall shape of the dogbone controller, but the B+A buttons of the original controller.

[+atari2600land]

I love it. I never thought about the B and A buttons being wrong. The A button is still close enough to the B so you can just stick your thumb across and it will hit both buttons simultaneously.

[jeremiahjt]

I play with the original rectangle controller most of the time, but I have played with the dogbone controller plenty.  Not one time during any use of it did I ever notice the angle of the buttons.  Of course I am also a person who is not bothered by a game "switching" the left and right button functions.

[RegularGuyGamer]

Just get the Power Grips and forget about it. 

[johannesmutlu]

I do like the dogbone controller,BUT i really do hate the stifty d-pad,i also wish that the dogbone controller was just as big as the snes controller,

now i do wonder if i am the only one who complain about these issues???

[Wayler]

11 hours ago, johannesmutlu said:

i really do hate the stifty d-pad,i also wish that the dogbone controller was just as big as the snes controller,

now i do wonder if i am the only one who complain about these issues???

As you just compared the d-pad to an old man's erection, I'd say yes, the only one. 

[0078265317]

On 11/26/2022 at 12:21 PM, Austin said:

It's a comfy controller, but I agree that the angled buttons aren't ideal for certain games. I'll bust it out for certain titles, but in general I stick with the rectangular controller.

Same here.  I got one from amazon for 5 bucks many years ago.  Not a knockoff.  I wish the buttons were not angles and straight like that first photo.  But it's still good.  I use Super Nintendo controllers sometimes also.  It's pretty good.  I got one of these.

 

https://www.8bitdo.com/retro-receiver-nes/

 

I pair it with a Wii mote.  Then one of these.  

 

https://www.hyperkin.com/controller-adapter-for-snes-to-snes-classic-edition-wii-u-wii-hyperkin.html

 

Works great.

 

 

[0078265317]

I can't believe the markup.  The sticker says 4.95 and now its 27.41.  At least remove the sticker.

 

powergrips

[Chuck D. Head]

I honestly never noticed that there was a difference. When I got the dogbone with the toploader, it was a seamless transition for me, the only thing I noticed was that it felt more comfortable. I never looked back; both the toploader and controller have held up great as well, through years of service.