News article possible end of VCS

[bfollett]

Just saw a news article over at TomHardware.  Here's a quote from the article:

Quote

Atari is reorganizing its hardware business and critically says this “includes the suspension of direct hardware manufacturing relationships” relating to the VCS. However, Atari did not mention any plans to secure new contracts to manufacture the VCS, so this appears to be the end of the line for the troubled console.

Full article here:

 

Atari VCS in Jeopardy After Atari Pull Manufacturing Contracts | Tom's Hardware (tomshardware.com)

 

 

[davpa]

This is a nothing burger.  Yes, if you are looking for new manufacturing partners to make your product then you are going to suspend the current manufacturing relationship.  There is currently a lot of stock of VCS units, so we are not going to run out in an immediate future.  This is NOT the painted sign of "The End is Nigh!"

[THX-1138]

1 hour ago, davpa said:

This is a nothing burger.  Yes, if you are looking for new manufacturing partners to make your product then you are going to suspend the current manufacturing relationship.  There is currently a lot of stock of VCS units, so we are not going to run out in an immediate future.  This is NOT the painted sign of "The End is Nigh!"

There would be less stock if they made them available to customers outside the US.

[zzip]

I lost count of how many times this thing has been declared dead since it was announced.

[digdugnate]

https://liliputing.com/atari-pulls-the-plug-on-atari-vcs-console-manufacturing/

 

I'm shocked.   SHOCKED 

[andymanone]

7 minutes ago, THX-1138 said:

There would be less stock if they made them available to customers outside the US.

 

Hi @davpa

 

I do not want to beat you, but quite the opposite 😉.
I am glad to have someone from ATARI HQ here who listens to the users!

 

in my eyes one of the biggest problems is that ATARI doesn't think outside the box and doesn't sell anything outside the USA.

The USA ATARI community is big, BUT the ATARI community outside the USA is at least as big, I think much, much bigger!

I wonder why ATARI doesn't have this in mind?

 

I am from Europe / Germany, I am an ATARI enthusiast and collector since the eighties and I had been one of the first supporters

and backers of the VCS crowdfunding campaign!

I was also proud to see my VCS back in December 2020 under the Christmas tree😍!

(It was like a Déjà vu  - nearly the same feeling, like seeing my first "ATARI 130XE" in 1987 under the Christmas tree 😊)

 

But the problem is, even if I can get friends, family or acquaintances excited, they can't buy a VCS or accessories in Europe!

 

Also all the sales offers, "Black Friday" etc. that I always get by email from ATARI, 
are of NO use to me (!), because I can't order anything from them in Germany! 

 

Otherwise there are a few money-hungry vultures who buy in the USA and then offer the VCS in Germany for 700€ to 800€ then on Ebay.

But that's not useful, because for that price nobody here would buy a VCS.
The result is rather negative, people lose interest in the end.

 

I know you're not the right person to vent my anger on, and I don't want my anger to hit you,

but maybe you can pass on my thoughts to your marketing department, with the hope that they wake up, maybe 🙄?

 

Cheers,

andY

Edited December 19, 2022 by andymanone

[davpa]

31 minutes ago, andymanone said:

 

Hi @davpa

 

I do not want to beat you, but quite the opposite 😉.
I am glad to have someone from ATARI HQ here who listens to the users!

 

in my eyes one of the biggest problems is that ATARI doesn't think outside the box and doesn't sell anything outside the USA.

The USA ATARI community is big, BUT the ATARI community outside the USA is at least as big, I think much, much bigger!

I wonder why ATARI doesn't have this in mind?

 

I am from Europe / Germany, I am an ATARI enthusiast and collector since the eighties and I had been one of the first supporters

and backers of the VCS crowdfunding campaign!

I was also proud to see my VCS back in December 2020 under the Christmas tree😍!

(It was like a Déjà vu  - nearly the same feeling, like seeing my first "ATARI 130XE" in 1987 under the Christmas tree 😊)

 

But the problem is, even if I can get friends, family or acquaintances excited, they can't buy a VCS or accessories in Europe!

 

Also all the sales offers, "Black Friday" etc. that I always get by email from ATARI, 
are of NO use to me (!), because I can't order anything from them in Germany! 

 

Otherwise there are a few money-hungry vultures who buy in the USA and then offer the VCS in Germany for 700€ to 800€ then on Ebay.

But that's not useful, because for that price nobody here would buy a VCS.
The result is rather negative, people lose interest in the end.

 

I know you're not the right person to vent my anger on, and I don't want my anger to hit you,

but maybe you can pass on my thoughts to your marketing department, with the hope that they wake up, maybe 🙄?

 

Cheers,

andY

I don't disagree with what you said about shipping to UK/EU.  I know this is an issue that all of us want to solve.  Unfortunately, it is a lot more complicated then just "let Amazon ship it."  I wish I could go into the details, but I know I was shocked when every single issue and roadblock was presented to me on why the VCS is currently not shipping outside of the US.  I was walking in going "hey, why no shipping out of the US?" and then got slapped with reality.  Now, that is not to say these things can't and won't be overcome.  Obviously companies ship outside the US all the time.  Ultimately there are no excuses.  We at Atari are just getting our act together in this regard.  It should have been something from the beginning and established as part of the plan, but there were people at that time that, frankly, didn't give a damn.  Those people don't run certain things anymore.

 

As for the Black Friday sales (and the new one that just launched today) should totally be available to you.  I adjusted the prices of the games for each of the currencies: US dollar, Pound Sterling, Euro, Aussie Dollar, and Canadian Dollar.  Sadly, we don't currently have a nice graphic that shows the original price with line through it with the sale price next to it.  Add that to the endless list of "Things to do."  Being a German VCS user does not exclude you from the sale of .... and here is where I just realized you are talking about the t-shirts and other physical products of the sales.  Ok, yeah.  I'm an idiot and yeah I can understand how frustrating that must be.

 

You can vent your anger at me, that is ok.  I came here to AtariAge to not only reach out to you guys but to reach out to Atari.  You want to vent, go on.  I'll listen to what you have to say and I'll do my best to fix the problems and to bring these issues up.  Some times actions take a while to implement, but I am not ignoring anyone.  For better or worse, I list to it all.

[Clint Thompson]

2 hours ago, davpa said:

This is a nothing burger.  Yes, if you are looking for new manufacturing partners to make your product then you are going to suspend the current manufacturing relationship.  There is currently a lot of stock of VCS units, so we are not going to run out in an immediate future.  This is NOT the painted sign of "The End is Nigh!"

Well that's not how people are going to view it, especially with how the articles are worded. Nothing states Atari is possibly negotiating new manufacturing relationships just that current manufacturing has ended.

[davpa]

Just now, Clint Thompson said:

Well that's not how people are going to view it, especially with how the articles are worded. Nothing states Atari is possibly negotiating new manufacturing relationships just that current manufacturing has ended.

I know.  There is a certain point where people are just rooting for the VCS to end.  No matter what we do we are failures or whatever.  The VCS has been called a scam, a cash grab, and so many other things.  They want to take one line from a report and say the VCS is dead?  Ok, I can't stop them.  I'm here saying that it isn't until it is.  Right now, it isn't.  If it was dead then I would have not been hired a few months ago.  If the VCS is dead then why are we doing hardware prototypes to expand on the VCS?  None of that makes any sense if the VCS was dead like people want to assume.

[THX-1138]

7 minutes ago, davpa said:

I don't disagree with what you said about shipping to UK/EU.  I know this is an issue that all of us want to solve.  Unfortunately, it is a lot more complicated then just "let Amazon ship it."  I wish I could go into the details, but I know I was shocked when every single issue and roadblock was presented to me on why the VCS is currently not shipping outside of the US.  I was walking in going "hey, why no shipping out of the US?" and then got slapped with reality.  Now, that is not to say these things can't and won't be overcome.  Obviously companies ship outside the US all the time.  Ultimately there are no excuses.  We at Atari are just getting our act together in this regard.  It should have been something from the beginning and established as part of the plan, but there were people at that time that, frankly, didn't give a damn.  Those people don't run certain things anymore.

 

As for the Black Friday sales (and the new one that just launched today) should totally be available to you.  I adjusted the prices of the games for each of the currencies: US dollar, Pound Sterling, Euro, Aussie Dollar, and Canadian Dollar.  Sadly, we don't currently have a nice graphic that shows the original price with line through it with the sale price next to it.  Add that to the endless list of "Things to do."  Being a German VCS user does not exclude you from the sale of .... and here is where I just realized you are talking about the t-shirts and other physical products of the sales.  Ok, yeah.  I'm an idiot and yeah I can understand how frustrating that must be.

 

You can vent your anger at me, that is ok.  I came here to AtariAge to not only reach out to you guys but to reach out to Atari.  You want to vent, go on.  I'll listen to what you have to say and I'll do my best to fix the problems and to bring these issues up.  Some times actions take a while to implement, but I am not ignoring anyone.  For better or worse, I list to it all.

It is frustrating for those of us outside the US, I appreciate your response but keep thinking how the folks behind the Evercade have, while Atari have been trying to get the VCS available outside the US, developed a handheld, licenced stacks of games (incl. from Atari), developed a home console and now a second generation handheld in all that time.  They were a smaller company with less resources yet were able to get the products to the hands of customers worldwide.  Atari have no excuse on this, it's just bad management.  Now they are having to cease VCS production because they cannot shift the stock they should have sold to customers outside the US.

[Clint Thompson]

7 minutes ago, davpa said:

I know.  There is a certain point where people are just rooting for the VCS to end.  No matter what we do we are failures or whatever.  The VCS has been called a scam, a cash grab, and so many other things.  They want to take one line from a report and say the VCS is dead?  Ok, I can't stop them.  I'm here saying that it isn't until it is.  Right now, it isn't.  If it was dead then I would have not been hired a few months ago.  If the VCS is dead then why are we doing hardware prototypes to expand on the VCS?  None of that makes any sense if the VCS was dead like people want to assume.

Well, actually, you or someone at Atari could correct them on their articles and respond so they write the article stating negotiations with new manufacturers are underway but I suppose that's not to actually be the case, otherwise well, it would be in the article. I'm not coming from an attacking angle or "rooting against the VCS", I'm coming at "the article says you guys killed the VCS", not my words, theirs.

 

I mean, they got the news from Atari right so, if there were indeed other possibilities it would seem that would have been mentioned. Quite specifically so.

 

You mention hardware prototypes to expand, I didn't see that in the article either. Licensing to others has been what Atari is anyways, that means nothing really.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Clint Thompson

[davpa]

20 minutes ago, Clint Thompson said:

Well, actually, you or someone at Atari could correct them on their articles and respond so they write the article stating negotiations with new manufacturers are underway but I suppose that's not to actually be the case, otherwise well, it would be in the article. I'm not coming from an attacking angle or "rooting against the VCS", I'm coming at "the article says you guys killed the VCS", not my words, theirs.

I'd correct them but since I'm not in the Communications and PR team I would be fired for doing that.  While I have never lived in fear of "losing my job" my entire life/career, I also don't do things that are a guarantee to get me fired.  I follow the same logic as to why I don't play in traffic.

[MrMaddog]

Well I always felt it would be better for Atari to just licence the manufacuring of the VCS to 3rd party OEM builders instead of trying to go at it themselves at their current size.  Just look at how many Atari Flashbacks AtGames make...

 

This way they can not make more VCSs for sale but also have them available outside the US.  Heck, they can finally have the much needed price drop or even an updated design. (I know, just speculation)

 

Who cares about the naysayers, they can keep writting their click bait articles while Atari still makes product and profit.  I can just imagine the look on the faces of the limeys from The Register when the VCS had actually came out a couple years ago.

 

 

[andymanone]

11 hours ago, davpa said:

As for the Black Friday sales (and the new one that just launched today) should totally be available to you.  I adjusted the prices of the games for each of the currencies: US dollar, Pound Sterling, Euro, Aussie Dollar, and Canadian Dollar.  Sadly, we don't currently have a nice graphic that shows the original price with line through it with the sale price next to it.  Add that to the endless list of "Things to do."  Being a German VCS user does not exclude you from the sale of .... and here is where I just realized you are talking about the t-shirts and other physical products of the sales.  Ok, yeah.  I'm an idiot and yeah I can understand how frustrating that must be.

Maybe I am blind 🧐,
but I don't see an option in the ATARI Shop to select another currency, let alone to select another country for shipping (See screenshot attached).
What am I doing wrong?

 

Quote

You can vent your anger at me, that is ok.  I came here to AtariAge to not only reach out to you guys but to reach out to Atari.  You want to vent, go on.  I'll listen to what you have to say and I'll do my best to fix the problems and to bring these issues up.  Some times actions take a while to implement, but I am not ignoring anyone.  For better or worse, I list to it all.

No, not at all I will take out my anger on you!

On the contrary, I am very glad to have found an interface to ATARI with you here👍!

 

I love the VCS and would like to have a second one (one to collect for the showcase and one to play and modify).

Maybe you have seen my little graphics hack with an Nvidia graphics card 😉?

 

 

 

 

Cheers,
andY
 

[THX-1138]

2 hours ago, andymanone said:

Maybe I am blind 🧐,
but I don't see an option in the ATARI Shop to select another currency, let alone to select another country for shipping (See screenshot attached).
What am I doing wrong?

You're not doing anything wrong.  You -cannot- buy any physical goods from the Atari shop and have them shipped outside the US.  That's the crazy restriction they have put on their own sales.

However, you -can- buy VCS games through the VCS store, including sale items no matter where you are.

So no, you're not blind.  You're just one of the 95% of us that do not live in the US.

[zzip]

17 hours ago, davpa said:

don't disagree with what you said about shipping to UK/EU.  I know this is an issue that all of us want to solve.  Unfortunately, it is a lot more complicated then just "let Amazon ship it."  I wish I could go into the details, but I know I was shocked when every single issue and roadblock was presented to me on why the VCS is currently not shipping outside of the US.  I was walking in going "hey, why no shipping out of the US?"

What about Canada, is that less complicated than shipping to Europe?

 

17 hours ago, Clint Thompson said:

Well, actually, you or someone at Atari could correct them on their articles and respond so they write the article stating negotiations with new manufacturers are underway but I suppose that's not to actually be the case, otherwise well, it would be in the article. I'm not coming from an attacking angle or "rooting against the VCS", I'm coming at "the article says you guys killed the VCS", not my words, theirs.

Often PR strategies are to ignore certain things.   I'm not a PR expert but seems like responding to things gives them credence and can make you look defensive.   For example see how Tommy would respond to every single negative Amico article and comment.   He eventually came off looking defensive and combative and added more fuel to the fire.   Seems like a tricky line to decide when to respond and how to respond.    There's been tons of naysayers since the day thing was announced and I can't think of a time that Atari has officially responded to them..   instead they just prove them wrong by actually shipping a product and not killing it off every time it's been declared dead.

 

 

[ComputerSpaceFan]

1 hour ago, zzip said:

What about Canada?

Hear hear! I've been wanting the VCS Classic Joystick for a long time and seeing this sale is killing me. No shipping? Sucks.

[leech]

6 hours ago, zzip said:

What about Canada, is that less complicated than shipping to Europe?

Canada is hard to get to, you know, being tucked all the way down there... (Simpson's reference)

[davpa]

2 hours ago, leech said:

Canada is hard to get to, you know, being tucked all the way down there... (Simpson's reference)

and then you have to deal with all those Canadians with their speaking French and English!  And they mock my puck handling skills...that hurts man!  I have feelings too.

[BeamRider]

An update to the article has been posted.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/atari-ends-vcs-production-contracts

 

Quote

Update 12/20/2022 2:02 pm PT

 

Atari provided us with the following statement regarding VCS production and the future of its hardware.

 

"As we noted in our Half-Year 2022/2023 Results, we have reorganized our hardware business and laid the groundwork for a new commercial strategy. As part of this reorganization we suspended our relationship with the original manufacturing partner of the Atari VCS, but we continue to maintain inventory and fulfill new orders.

 

Atari remains committed to the VCS platform. We have been adding more support for game developers and continue to add new games to the store. Hardware is an important part of Atari’s legacy and will continue to be a part of our long-term strategy.

We have several hardware and software projects in development, under licensed contracts, that will expand the VCS ecosystem and create additional utility for users."

 

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

Atari Reaffirms Commitment To VCS Console After Cancelling Its Manufacturing Contract
Atari may have cut ties with the VCS' original manufacturing partner, but the company says it's not the end for the retro console.

By Hayley Williams on December 20, 2022 at 6:13PM PST

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/atari-reaffirms-commitment-to-vcs-console-after-cancelling-its-manufacturing-contract/1100-6510208/

 

[YarsFan]

It would be foolish to stop supporting this hardware because:

 

1) If they do, that’s the end of the line for future hardware by Atari. We thought Jaguar was it, but this thing brought them back into hardware one more time. It’s boom or bust forever…
 

2) The costs will continue to go down over time, so eventually it will be cheap enough to make and sell at profit for $99.99 with one joystick and one controller. When that day comes, whether it’s 2025 or 2030, this thing will sell like hotcakes as the ultimate retro machine with a cool library of niche games. 
 

3) They can continue to build retro-like modern games on this thing indefinitely. And us Atari nerds will continue to buy it 🤣 

Edited December 21, 2022 by YarsFan

[Bill Loguidice]

1 hour ago, YarsFan said:

It would be foolish to stop supporting this hardware because:

 

1) If they do, that’s the end of the line for future hardware by Atari. We thought Jaguar was it, but this thing brought them back into hardware one more time. It’s boom or bust forever…
 

2) The costs will continue to go down over time, so eventually it will be cheap enough to make and sell at profit for $99.99 with one joystick and one controller. When that day comes, whether it’s 2025 or 2030, this thing will sell like hotcakes as the ultimate retro machine with a cool library of niche games. 
 

3) They can continue to build retro-like modern games on this thing indefinitely. And us Atari nerds will continue to buy it 🤣 

 

Just to play a little devil's advocate...

 

1) Atari was not really back in the hardware business. They put a commodity PC into a fancy case and created yet another digital storefront. It's not really a unique platform. They definitely get bonus points for the classic controller, though, as that's their one major step to distinction against everything else out there, though of course that also works on any other PC. The stark reality is is that modern consoles are a big company business and you need deep pockets. As with the Jaguar, Atari already started at a significant disadvantage, only this time it's even worse. They really had few options with going the VCS route in its released form.

 

2a) Costs MAY drop over time, but certain parts MAY also be more difficult to get. Atari is too small to buy in sufficient quantity and/or take a loss on each piece of hardware. If you read the GameSpot article linked to by OldSchoolRetroGamer, Atari's hardware revenue was only $212,466, down from $2.44 million. The reason why they stopped their manufacturing agreement and are restructuring their hardware business is because the next step after $212,466 is a significant loss, something a company the size of an Atari can't absorb.

 

2b) I'd argue that Evercade offers the ultimate retro machines at this point. A compelling enough handheld and a compelling enough console that both take collectible cartridges instead of solely digital content. And the price points are spot on. That's yet another vision that Atari could have made their own instead of producing a same-y compact PC. In any case, with the VCS, power does matter. It was underpowered as a PC upon its release, and it only gets worse by the day. I get that you don't need considerable horsepower to run modest games, but the fact of the matter is as more and more games get released, that's more and more games that the VCS would be unlikely to run with its current capabilities. And again, just because time passes does not mean the hardware will automatically become cheaper, especially since Atari has no control over components or signicant buying power. 

 

3) Which they'll also continue to release on every other platform, where those games will sell better. Again, there's no reason to have a VCS other than having a fondness for the logo. At this point, there's just not enough people out there with said fondness to support an indistinct platform. The expectedly sluggish sales of the VCS to date prove that already.

 

Bonus) We'll see how things go, but all indications are the VCS as a platform, such as it is, is done, despite Atari putting on the Jaguar-is-still-great-even-though-the-PS1-is-out marketing spin (see GameSpot article). If Atari's new strategy is to license its digital storefront to other manufacturers to put into their own compact PCs or other PC devices, and/or have them produce their own VCS systems, so be it, as that's certainly one path, but frankly, also one that's doomed to fail. I just don't see a viable path forward for the VCS. Even at $99, while it would almost certainly move all inventory, albeit at a loss, it wouldn't necessarily mean those people would buy anything from the VCS digital storefront, as those people purchasing it at that price point wouldn't be doing it for their love of all things Atari and wanting to support the platform. They'd mostly be doing it because it's a compact PC to monkey around with.

[Flojomojo]

I liked this video that sums up what everyone here has been talking about. 

 

 

They can "suspend" manufacturing indefinitely, especially if they still have a lot of product in stock and it's not moving. Dropping support (closing the store, not releasing any new software) would be a bit premature but I think the writing is on the wall. Atari isn't Microsoft, they're not going to shovel money into a furnace to stay in the hardware game. I've yet to see a compelling reason to add a VCS to my collection of hardware, let alone choose it over a stronger competitor. I can play Donut Dodo, Atari 50, and Tempest 4000 on my Nintendo Switch. 

[Bill Loguidice]

6 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:

They can "suspend" manufacturing indefinitely, especially if they still have a lot of product in stock and it's not moving. Dropping support (closing the store, not releasing any new software) would be a bit premature but I think the writing is on the wall. Atari isn't Microsoft, they're not going to shovel money into a furnace to stay in the hardware game. I've yet to see a compelling reason to add a VCS to my collection of hardware, let alone choose it over a stronger competitor. I can play Donut Dodo, Atari 50, and Tempest 4000 on my Nintendo Switch. 

Yep. Exclusivity of SOME type, in some form, is key, or at least an interesting angle. Xbox Series S/X has, for example, GamePass and Developer Mode. PS5 has some key exclusives (at least the few not also going to PC these days) and its own services. The Switch has the whole hybrid thing going on and of course first party exclusives and a generous helping of classic games. Evercade has the classic cartridge collection thing and cross-compatibility between its handheld and console. Etc. The VCS, as far as I know, has no exclusive games, and in fact often gets games after other platforms. It's cool that you can make it run Windows or use it as a TV PC, but that's hardly unique or something that's necessarily broadly appealing. The classic controller is cool, but certainly specialized, and something that you can also just get for a PC instead of having to use a specialized set top box. And then of course there's the VCS's non-$99 blowout price, which is hard to justify versus the aforementioned options and their relative value.

I know that some of the VCS/Atari die-hards are hanging their hats on/holding out hope for licensing deals, but I just don't see it. In terms of the software platform, no one needs another digital game download platform, particularly one as modest as the VCS's, unless perhaps it were free (meaning trivial to include along with other, bigger digital stores) and Atari would hope to make money from game sales (which I don't see how it would versus the other options out there). In terms of the hardware platform, while there are plenty of small-time compact PC manufacturers out there with hardware that Atari could "VCS certify," I don't see what the appeal would be for these manufacturers, particularly with there being an associated cost of some type for the licensing (be it flat rate or royalty). And I don't see how Atari would benefit from VCS certifying hardware without charging a fee, unless they again would hope to make it up with VCS digital store sales, which again, I just don't see. 

With all of that said, I feel like I'm coming across incredibly negative in my analysis (maybe I should enumerate the things I LIKE about the hardware and platform in a separate post for balance). I'd certainly LOVE to hear some real, practical ways that Atari has a sustainable path with the VCS platform. I just struggle to think of any.