News article possible end of VCS

[Flojomojo]

Microsoft has a locked-down version of Windows that only allows apps from the store. It ships by default on things like the Surface Go. Fortunately, it's easy to turn off and "upgrade" to the full version. I've never met anyone who lives in or prefers that version, but I suppose there are some people out there doing that. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/switching-out-of-s-mode-in-windows-4f56d9be-99ec-6983-119f-031bfb28a307

 

I don't see MacOS going that way because freedom to install and run whatever you want is what differentiates it from iPad OS. 

 

To go back on topic, is anyone trying to get Mac OS to run in a "Hackintosh" way on Atari VCS? That would be a neat trick. 

[joeatari1]

57 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:

To go back on topic, is anyone trying to get Mac OS to run in a "Hackintosh" way on Atari VCS? That would be a neat trick. 

 

[zzip]

1 hour ago, Albert said:

You can certainly distribute software without it being signed by Apple.  You just have to go into System Preferences (or System Settings, as they have renamed it in Ventura) in the Security panel to allow an unsigned app to be installed.  I do this on a regular basis.  Here's how it's done:

 

https://www.wikihow.com/Install-Software-from-Unsigned-Developers-on-a-Mac

 

Granted, it's a bit of a pain, but quick once you know what you have to do.  I don't mind this too much, as it will prevent many people from unknowingly installing malicious software. 

 

Now, if Apple ever removes the ability to do this, you can bet your ass that's when I sell all my Macs and stop using macOS as my daily driver.  Of course, it would not surprise me if Microsoft did the same thing at some point.

 

 ..Al

Interesting.   Our developer said that obtaining the cert was the only way for him to distribute the code, and we had to jump through hoops to get the cert.   I'll bring this up if the issue comes up again.

[Albert]

Just now, zzip said:

Interesting.   Our developer said that obtaining the cert was the only way for him to distribute the code, and we had to jump through hoops to get the cert.   I'll bring this up if the issue comes up again.

There may be other issues in a corporate environment, but you can absolutely install any software you want (we won't get into kernel extensions, which are another beast entirely).

 

 ..Al

[zzip]

Just now, Albert said:

There may be other issues in a corporate environment, but you can absolutely install any software you want (we won't get into kernel extensions, which are another beast entirely).

our IT dept may have locked down this ability I suppose.

[Albert]

1 minute ago, zzip said:

our IT dept may have locked down this ability I suppose.

Yeah, that's quite likely, and I know Macs can be bolted down tightly to prevent installation of any software.

 

 ..Al

[leech]

1 hour ago, Albert said:

There may be other issues in a corporate environment, but you can absolutely install any software you want (we won't get into kernel extensions, which are another beast entirely).

 

 ..Al

Yeah, Apple makes sure you know you are installing software that they haven't approved.  But it is similar to years ago with Windows 7 and signed drivers.

On kext... I tried to install the Paragon EXT4 driver, claimed it worked with m1 Macs... after going through the nonsense of having to boot into safe mode to disable the 'safety' things so I could it to work... all I got was crashes whenever I would attach an ext4 formatted device!  Still not sure how macOS doesn't have filesystem support for everything out of the box at this point.  (Same goes for Windows too.)

[roots.genoa]

5 hours ago, zzip said:

In the same way lots of people don't care enough about the retro-game hobby to sort out the tangled web of IP ownership in their minds

Wouldn't these people don't care enough about retrogaming to post on a retrogaming forum, though? 🙂

[zzip]

10 minutes ago, roots.genoa said:

Wouldn't these people don't care enough about retrogaming to post on a retrogaming forum, though? 🙂

People come here for a bunch of reasons-  there's an active homebrew scene, all that Fuji Net stuff,  seems to be an active TI 99/4a community I wouldn't necessarily expect they all have a clear us idea of IP ownership or desire to sort it all out.  They're focused on other aspects of the hobby.

[Keatah]

I certainly am, focused on other areas of the hobby..

 

So much game playing to do. So much archiving and preservation activities. So much documenting and reminiscing about what the scene (and its ambiance) was like in the 70's and 80's. Even the 90's and after.

 

IP and which company owns what and designed what is of little concern to me. Except when it isn't. It can be useful if plotting a course backward through time. Tracing ownership for finding source code, "lost" copies and protos, or just plain old documentation. Otherwise put it in the fucking database and be done with it. I certainly don't give a rat's ass about what record labels signed what band for what album. That's beyond boring. And this IP stuff changes all the time. You'd have to pay me to sort it out and genuinely care about it.

[roots.genoa]

8 hours ago, Keatah said:

I certainly don't give a rat's ass about what record labels signed what band for what album.

But I really doubt you don't give a rat's ass about the band that made that album, though. In the case of Assault, you apparently care more for the distributor (the label) than the developer (the band).

[Keatah]

4 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

But I really doubt you don't give a rat's ass about the band that made that album, though.

I do care about the band and their performances. No doubt there.

 

4 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

In the case of Assault, you apparently care more for the distributor (the label) than the developer (the band).

I care about the game 1st, the distributor 2nd, and the developer 3rd (or not at all). That is exactly how Atari wanted it.

 

Who programmed what is often obfuscated or just not advertised. No credits given. As kids we all loved Atari, and it was very nebulous who programmed what. So it was never at the forefront of thought. This applied to both cartridges and arcade cabinets.

 

With computer games it was significantly different. There was almost always a copyright date, author, publisher, and game name on their splash screens.

[Flojomojo]

What’s with all the “if I don’t care about it, it doesn’t exist” Keatah? You’re smarter than that. 

[zzip]

6 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

But I really doubt you don't give a rat's ass about the band that made that album, though. In the case of Assault, you apparently care more for the distributor (the label) than the developer (the band).

On arcade cabinets, the manufacturer put their names front and center and the developer was almost a footnote.   It would be like if album covers were printed  "EMI Presents 'A Night At The Opera'" in large letters,  and in tiny letters at the bottom it said "performed by Queen"   But ultimately the difference is, unlike rock stars, video game developers worked completely behind the scenes (like session musicians),  and the big video game companies preferred to keep it that way and not have to pay royalties and whatnot.  

 

Most people can name the members of their favorite bands, but can't name the session musicians or even the producer of that band's albums without doing research, those people were just as important if not more so to an album's sound.

 

1 hour ago, Keatah said:

With computer games it was significantly different. There was almost always a copyright date, author, publisher, and game name on their splash screens.

I remember when Electronic Arts started as one of the early computer game publishers, they always made a point put their developers front and center with photos and bio's.  

 

 

[roots.genoa]

I understand all that and once again, we had an excuse to ignore a lot of stuff in the 80s when we were kids without Internet.

 

My point is we don't have this excuse anymore. So if you want to ignore it now, that's your choice. You can stand by it of course, but I'll keep on disapproving it.

[Keatah]

17 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

What’s with all the “if I don’t care about it, it doesn’t exist” Keatah? You’re smarter than that. 

It could be a new emergent property from my studies in advanced astrometry and cosmology. It could also just be me being stubborn, well, just because!

 

Once things'fershur I don't wanna blow up cherished childhood good times. There are those days I simply wanna sit my ass down and play Dodge'Em or Miniature Golf and not think one iota about the history of the game.

Edited January 11, 2023 by Keatah

[Bill Loguidice]

7 hours ago, Keatah said:

It could be a new emergent property from my studies in advanced astrometry and cosmology. It could also just be me being stubborn, well, just because!

 

Once things'fershur I don't wanna blow up cherished childhood good times. There are those days I simply wanna sit my ass down and play Dodge'Em or Miniature Golf and not think one iota about the history of the game.

I'm with you there. Even though I get suckered in now and again still, I try very hard these days to deal with products that take most, if not all, of the work setting these things up out of the equation (and that goes across the entirety of the video gaming and computing hobby for me, both modern and vintage). At this stage in my life and associated commitments, there's just such precious little time to do all the things I want, often resulting in me doing only a fraction of what I'd hope to do. That goes for the gaming stuff as well, so I absolutely value as much streamlining, ease-of-use, and accessibility as possible. That's why I'm never one of those people who poo-poo a licensed product even though you can "pirate for free" (of course, those who do that, don't consider themselves as such), except in those cases where it's an impractical design or a truly poor value, especially if its IP readily available in many other legal ways.

[Bill Loguidice]

On 1/4/2023 at 2:54 PM, Bill Loguidice said:

Update. I canceled my order and my refund is processing. I just couldn't figure out how I would make use of it and I really didn't want to bother making a go of PC mode. Perhaps if I ordered the USB stick when it was available at the time of purchase, but even then, I just don't know how I would have really made use of it. If it ever comes up again for a lower price in that type of bundle, I'll consider it again I suppose.

Well, surprise, surprise... It showed up today despite me getting a refund. 🙃

[PeterG]

On 1/22/2023 at 6:33 PM, Bill Loguidice said:

Well, surprise, surprise... It showed up today despite me getting a refund. 🙃

I'll take two then.