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Altirra 4.10 released


phaeron

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The taking of parameters from the file name has been discussed a long time ago, I mean a Looooong time ago. I can't remember which version or why Phaeron declined the idea. It sounds a nice idea until you see the big flaw in it, that is TOSEC. The actual issue with TOSEC is that it's actual checking varies from person to person. There are entries in TOSEC that are incorrect, bad images, incorrectly labelled and a few other problems. Personally, I'd baulk again the use of parameters from the name for those reasons. It could lead to a series of bug reports that are incorrect simply because people have taken the TOSEC convention as 100% fool proof. I personally have seen many a title that forgets to include BASIC as being needed. The Preservation movement are working towards a 99.99 (if not 100%) list of images, when they are happy it's totally correct, THEN, I'd say using parameters from file names is a good idea, that's if Avery wanted to include a parsing engine to read and act on the file name.

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I think he was right in declining the idea, string contents based processing is just a bad idea in general. But, what about bin image bound profiles defined in separate file(s) or some sort of database or registry? Sha1 hash or something similar used as a key and the problem would be solved 😉

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In truth, I hope it stays the way it is, BITD, no one booted the software for you, you read the box, saw what it needed (normally BASIC or OSA/B or not) and you played / used the program. Getting it to the point that you are hand fed through that process just reeks of lazy. Let's keep it as close to the real experience as can be (and no, I don't want an animation of a hand inserting a disk in to a drive :) ) (I think we can leave that bit to our imagination)..

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5 hours ago, Mclaneinc said:

The taking of parameters from the file name has been discussed a long time ago, I mean a Looooong time ago. I can't remember which version or why Phaeron declined the idea. It sounds a nice idea until you see the big flaw in it, that is TOSEC. The actual issue with TOSEC is that it's actual checking varies from person to person. There are entries in TOSEC that are incorrect, bad images, incorrectly labelled and a few other problems. Personally, I'd baulk again the use of parameters from the name for those reasons. It could lead to a series of bug reports that are incorrect simply because people have taken the TOSEC convention as 100% fool proof. I personally have seen many a title that forgets to include BASIC as being needed. The Preservation movement are working towards a 99.99 (if not 100%) list of images, when they are happy it's totally correct, THEN, I'd say using parameters from file names is a good idea, that's if Avery wanted to include a parsing engine to read and act on the file name.

Of course, it’s sad to hear this, well, then you’ll have to come up with something like a shortcut in which you can refer to the launch with the necessary parameters.

But there is also a positive point, on the shortcut you can set a picture with the cover of the game ;)

 

There is also a third option. Make, as advised here, an intermediate utility that will store something like a database with launch parameters, and then run the emulator with the necessary parameters.

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Well we do have premade databases like Gamebase XL and one that I worked on with Starwindz, the Best Game Pack (link in the pinned section), which are setup to send the right parameters via CLI. The Gamebase XL is a much newer database with lots more games, the game pack was an attempt to slim down the games to what were voted as the best games.

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I was thinking of posting re this, but I thought some might find it a little confusing re the alias bits, Also, If you look in options it gives you a choice of internal or external DB. Now I've not tested to see if additions get added to the internal one or you have to use a list that it makes. Hopefully, and knowing how exact Avery is, it adds to the internal one...

 

Edit: Just did the tests (and may have found a bug) Firstly it does not hot link the added files to the internal database, secondly in options you can choose BOTH Internal and external but in use it does not see the external ticked option and only uses the internal one. Lastly, despite trying my hardest I could not get it to stop showing me the compatibility issue messages even though the boxes at the bottom seemed to suggest it would not show it again, Also in options, if you choose to not display any warnings it just ignores the external database (and possibly the internal one)

 

But before Avery chokes me, I'll read the manual to see if I am being daft... (always a good chance of that).

 

EDIT 2: Return of the Jedi

 

Er, there's no section about the compatibility DB...

Edited by Mclaneinc
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3 hours ago, woj said:

I think he was right in declining the idea, string contents based processing is just a bad idea in general.

Yes.

3 hours ago, woj said:

But, what about bin image bound profiles defined in separate file(s) or some sort of database or registry? Sha1 hash or something similar used as a key and the problem would be solved 😉

No it wouldn’t. What happens when the hash changes due to hi-score saving or other disk writes?

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I believe there is a minor problem with cassette emulation. The 'Load data as audio option' doesn't seem to work for tape images with pwm blocks.

When the option is selected, the turbo data track cannot be heard. The standard records (baud, data) can be heard, though.

 

Version 4.10, sample tape image attached (a cassette boot file followed by a turbo file).

Set the emulated turbo system to Turbo 2000 (COMMAND active) and boot from the tape with START+OPTION. Atari XL/XE OS ROM is needed.

 

 

mix_baud_pwm.cas

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I've been using this VINTAGE TV.cgp for sometime to create a classic tv appearance with Altirra, which is much more realistic than using Altirra's screen effects. With Altirra version 4.10, I must uncheck Direct3D 11 in Options > Dispaly and only check Direct3D 9 for the VINTAGE TV.cgp to work (default setting is both are checked). The site where I grabbed VINTAGE TV.cgp from no longer in exists, thus it's probably not being updated.

 

Is unchecking Direct3D 11 impacting Altirra's performance? Will I eventually lose the ability to use it?

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5 hours ago, baktra said:

I believe there is a minor problem with cassette emulation. The 'Load data as audio option' doesn't seem to work for tape images with pwm blocks.

When the option is selected, the turbo data track cannot be heard. The standard records (baud, data) can be heard, though.

 

Version 4.10, sample tape image attached (a cassette boot file followed by a turbo file).

Set the emulated turbo system to Turbo 2000 (COMMAND active) and boot from the tape with START+OPTION. Atari XL/XE OS ROM is needed

Data-as-audio isn't implemented yet for raw blocks, though it shouldn't be hard to do -- rendering turbo data as audio is fortunately easy as it's just a resample, FSK is actually trickier due to continuous phase requirement. I'll get this implemented.

 

3 hours ago, pmgraphics said:

I've been using this VINTAGE TV.cgp for sometime to create a classic tv appearance with Altirra, which is much more realistic than using Altirra's screen effects. With Altirra version 4.10, I must uncheck Direct3D 11 in Options > Dispaly and only check Direct3D 9 for the VINTAGE TV.cgp to work (default setting is both are checked). The site where I grabbed VINTAGE TV.cgp from no longer in exists, thus it's probably not being updated.

 

Is unchecking Direct3D 11 impacting Altirra's performance? Will I eventually lose the ability to use it?

No, the reason that it doesn't work is that Direct3D 11 is a significantly different API from Direct3D 9 and the custom shader support needs to be reimplemented. What I can tell you is that Direct3D 9 support is not going away any time soon, it's still better than D3D11 in many cases on Windows 7 and it's also required for WINE on pre-DX11 class hardware due to WINE's broken 10level9 implementation. I'm not likely to consider removing it before dropping Windows 7 support, which won't happen for a while. Can't say for adding D3D11 custom shader support, though, as there's a lot of work involved -- not only need to rewrite the rendering pipeline, but the shader compiler infrastructure in D3D11 is completely different too. The shaders themselves will probably also need fixup for D3D11-specific issues but that tends to be the easier part.

 

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Hello there o/

Parsing archives with programs, I came across an interesting combination.

If a program or game requires OS-B mode, then everything starts fine, but if BASIC is also required, as a rule, either the program freezes or Altirra shows a window with changing launch options.

 

image.thumb.png.10c6c2dfdbea737a855448f736bf333b.png

 

Perhaps I really set some incorrect parameters, but how do I know which BASIC is needed?

 

image.thumb.png.8201b02044dc181c78657125233d4bd6.png

 

image.thumb.png.67129f63bf26a1e603463b978840a018.png

 

image.thumb.png.9516deac41231e6d87309e1b63e384a0.png

 

Perhaps this is due to a conflict with additional equipment such as COVOX or VBXE, but removing them from the configuration does not affect the inoperability.

Switching PAL/NTSC also did not affect the launch.

 

Examples of the program are attached

 

FileManager 800 v3C (1981)(Synapse Software)(US)[BASIC][OS-B][cr CSS].atr Floyd of the Jungle (1982)(MicroProse Software)(US)[a][BASIC][OS-B].atr Formula 1 Racing (1982)(Acorn Software)(US)[BASIC][OS-B].atr

Edited by LessNick
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17 minutes ago, www.atarimania.com said:

Thing is it's an impossible combination in the first place as that combo requires to have BASIC inserted as a cartridge.

Interesting. How, then, is it proposed to run such programs?

I would understand if there was a combination error in TOSEC for one or two files, but there are quite a few such files.

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The way Avery mapped it out makes perfect sense, remember, there is a physical Basic cart included in an 800XL, XE etc, the 400 and 800 needed you to insert a cart. That's the same approach Avery took, that's why under the file menu there's another heading for attaching a special cart ie a cart needed to run with certain types of hardware software, and at the bottom is BASIC. So you have to add BASIC to the system unlike the XL where you leave it running or deactivate it.

 

Edit: Just an added note to say that if you go to the System, configure system, then firmware when you are in 800 mode then it will show 800 mode and what choice of basic it's using (if you attached a special cart or what it would use if you did attach it) (again, presuming you have scanned your system roms in the firmware manager (link on same page) and you can change it between the usual choice of Version B basic, or the rare version A that is needed by a couple of games. You can choose C but C version was what was in the XL's etc at a later date, I don't know if there's an official version C cart out there?

Edited by Mclaneinc
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52 minutes ago, Mclaneinc said:

So you have to add BASIC to the system unlike the XL

Hmm... if I understood you correctly, then in addition to the file that I want to run, I need to specify the BASIC cartridge image?

It remains to find out what kind of cartridge it should be and what version of BASIC.

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There's no need to choose a BASIC image, if you scanned the roms in via the firmware manager it will know what choices are on your system, all you do is tell it that it needs the basic attached via that file attach special menu choice.

 

Just start up Altirra in 800 mode, you can use the profiles option in system for a quick startup or set it up by hand, the go to file and attach special cartridge, chose basic and then load that game image. There are default choices for Basic per system, version A is really only needed for a couple of games and will be marked as such. Version B is the most used one but you can use C as its a bug fixed / minor improvements. As said, you can set the default choice for the system in the system firmware section. I think(?) B is the internal default choice.

 

With Basic, it really does not matter what version is used (bar those weird couple of version A games), there's very little difference across the board with Atari Basic, just tweaks.. The most important thing is getting what version of the operating system it needs, most things will work in XL mode, it's very compatible, the only thing you have to remember is to hold OPTION down on a real XL to disable BASIC if the game does not need it. If the game stipulates either OSA or OSB then it must have that or it will not work properly or at all. Sometimes with poorly labelled games it's a bit of trying every choice till it works :) (but best to try XL mode first)

Edited by Mclaneinc
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1 minute ago, Mclaneinc said:

Just start up Altirra in 800 mode

image.thumb.png.ac1dc57b60d10fd58681527cfe6afc94.png

Hmmm... I chose the 400/800 Computer profile, I saw the splash screen "ATARI COMPUTER - MEMO PAD". Selected a disk, loading began and again everything hung up.

At the same time, yes, it is true that disabling / enabling BASIC is not available.

 

But the question of how to run the program remains open.

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If the game says it needs BASIC the do what you are doing but before, go to file menu and Attach Special Cartridge and choose BASIC, then boot the game..

 

Up to you how you boot the game, file menu Boot Game or drag and drop the game file on the main screen of Altirra, both work

 

You can even just attach the game image and set up the basic and then hit Shift + F5 on the PC to do a cold boot...

 

Edited by Mclaneinc
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Odd...Have you got the system roms for the OS's and BASIC? or Are you using the Internal OS.

 

You might want to go to System, Configure System the firmware. In there is a button to take you to the firmware manager, go to it and at the bottom look sor Scan, click that and go to the folder that has your OS roms and BASIC's in and click select folder.

 

That might fix that, if you don't have the system roms then let me know, I can help you there..Being that the OS roms etc are still under copyright, Avery can't put them in with the emulator or the old cease and desist letters start flying.

 

As Mr Griffin would say, "it grinds my gears" that the entity that owns the copyright has still not allowed 50 year old roms to be seen as Public Domain, it's not as if they do much with these images.

Edited by Mclaneinc
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5 hours ago, Mclaneinc said:

You might want to go to System, Configure System the firmware.

Thanks, there really was a little mess with different versions.

I cleaned out all the duplicates, and now when you select the profile "400/800 Computer" and Attach Special Cartridge "BASIC" everything starts.

 

But nevertheless, the question of what to do with altirra startup args remained open.

For example, the "/basic" arg on a typical XL/XE system enables or disables BASIC.

But if a system with OS-B is selected, this arg is ignored and it is not clear how to set the parameter that we do when Attach Special Cartridge "BASIC"?

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