Wonder what the reaction would be... if someone got the Commodore name and pulled an 'Atari'.

[leech]

As I see more and more homebrew games being released for the C64, I have to wonder.  If someone managed to try to revive the Commodore name (I know there have been attempts before, but like the one with the Cell phone was the last one I remembered, and I don't think it ended up shipping more than a few units).  Granted Commodore never had a game console, but if they had brought out something similar to what 8-bit Guy is doing with the Commander X16, would they get the same amount of grief that Atari got for the VCS?

[THX-1138]

There is always homebrew stuff being made for various systems, the C64 has had a bit of a revival, especially here in the UK, with the remake TheC64 by Retro Games Ltd and it's been very popular. (I have the C64 and VIC-20 remakes)

You're always going to get haters, what shocked me more than anything is probably the hate from so-called Atari fans.  (But this is AtariRage more often than not.)  I remember something like it when the Neo-Geo X came out, from certain SNK fans.  I remember someone saying, for some, their 'fandom' is deeply tied to the old hardware and games they invest time and money in, anything new or revivals are never good enough.  Do I believe that?  I don't know, there are purists everywhere, even with the Commodore 64 fans who only believe original hardware will do and they would never buy one of the remakes.

So I think you're always gonna find people who will happily dump over anything Atari do now, they'll spend a fortune on old hardware, hell, they'll put $200 down for a Lego 2600 but will vomit blood at the mere idea of spending $299-399 on an actual new, modern Atari that can be used as a PC and provide all that retro goodness too.  Haters are gonna hate, trolls will be trolls.  I'm happy, I got a new Atari computer, it may sound selfish but I really don't give a flying *@!k what anyone else thinks.

 

[zzip]

3 hours ago, THX-1138 said:

  I don't know, there are purists everywhere, even with the Commodore 64 fans who only believe original hardware will do and they would never buy one of the remakes.

So I think you're always gonna find people who will happily dump over anything Atari do now, they'll spend a fortune on old hardware, hell, they'll put $200 down for a Lego 2600 but will vomit blood at the mere idea of spending $299-399 on an actual new, modern Atari that can be used as a PC and provide all that retro goodness too.  Haters are gonna hate, trolls will be trolls.  I'm happy, I got a new Atari computer, it may sound selfish but I really don't give a flying *@!k what anyone else thinks.

That's a really good point about the Lego set-  nobody gets angry about that, $240?  Hey it's your money!    

 

5 hours ago, leech said:

As I see more and more homebrew games being released for the C64, I have to wonder.  If someone managed to try to revive the Commodore name (I know there have been attempts before, but like the one with the Cell phone was the last one I remembered, and I don't think it ended up shipping more than a few units).  Granted Commodore never had a game console, but if they had brought out something similar to what 8-bit Guy is doing with the Commander X16, would they get the same amount of grief that Atari got for the VCS?

So you think a device that people seem to like, like "TheC64 maxi" would suddenly become hated if they slapped the Commodore brand name on it because "It's not the REAL COMMODORE!!"    Interesting...    Maybe? 

[leech]

2 hours ago, zzip said:

So you think a device that people seem to like, like "TheC64 maxi" would suddenly become hated if they slapped the Commodore brand name on it because "It's not the REAL COMMODORE!!"    Interesting...    Maybe? 

It'd be something that I think would be an interesting social statement if they did!  The little Mini systems just kind of seem to be copying after the concept of the Atari Flashbacks that have been around for ages.  No one really (that I know of/remember) were  complaining about those.  Not sure how the A500 Mini, TheC64 Maxi, etc aren't basically similar to that.

 

Then comes along 'we're the real Atari, we swear!' deciding to make a new VCS and all hell breaks loose!  There was a bit of anger around the Commodore Chicken Lips being stamped on the back of a cell phone, and then it kind of disappeared into the weeds.  There were some who were even complaining about the Commodore USA cases that came out a few years ago, then the guy running it literally died, and Commodore USA died with it. 

 

So it's a strong 'maybe' that there would be the same sort of reaction.  People are weird.

 

A lot of people have said that the current Sega is not the same as the Sega of old... but if they suddenly decided to make a Dreamcast sequel, I wonder what the reaction would be?

[THX-1138]

57 minutes ago, leech said:

Then comes along 'we're the real Atari, we swear!' deciding to make

They are Atari.  Atari is a brand and a portfolio of IP and can be bought and sold, that's just basic Capitalism 101.  I suppose if someone treats Atari as an article of fundamentalist faith, is some kind of Marxist or just plain stupid, then this simple concept can be lost, leading to r-tard comments like "dat ain't da real Atari, bruh!".   By that measure Atari ended when Time Warner took over and the 2600 and everything that happened after, was never real Atari anyway.  Derp!

Commodore is a bit more complex, the name went one way, the IP went another.  Cloanto license the IP to RGL who make TheC64 and A500 mini, it's also why the name 'Commodore' isn't on those products.  Things get even muddier with the Amiga, name, OS etc.

[leech]

6 minutes ago, THX-1138 said:

They are Atari.  Atari is a brand and a portfolio of IP and can be bought and sold, that's just basic Capitalism 101.  I suppose if someone treats Atari as an article of fundamentalist faith, is some kind of Marxist or just plain stupid, then this simple concept can be lost, leading to r-tard comments like "dat ain't da real Atari, bruh!".   By that measure Atari ended when Time Warner took over and the 2600 and everything that happened after, was never real Atari anyway.  Derp!

Commodore is a bit more complex, the name went one way, the IP went another.  Cloanto license the IP to RGL who make TheC64 and A500 mini, it's also why the name 'Commodore' isn't on those products.  Things get even muddier with the Amiga, name, OS etc.

Yeah, Commodore is so complicated at this point, that I'm not sure anyone knows all of the aspects of it.  Plenty of lawsuits have tried to figure out who owns what...  Didn't help that Gateway, who ended up with the Amiga stuff, for some reason wanted to just turn it into a set top box, instead of continuing it's life as a computer.  Then a bunch of the (much maligned) Amiga Inc. stuff... ha, if the current Atari iteration gets a lot of hate for NFT and Crypto, it was nothing compared to what Amiga Inc was doing, though I think it requires more hate.  I think Atari doing NFT and Crypto is more about a lack of sense than anything to do with hating their fan base, like killing off the thing that made the Amiga cool...

[THX-1138]

1 hour ago, leech said:

Yeah, Commodore is so complicated at this point, that I'm not sure anyone knows all of the aspects of it.  Plenty of lawsuits have tried to figure out who owns what...  Didn't help that Gateway, who ended up with the Amiga stuff, for some reason wanted to just turn it into a set top box, instead of continuing it's life as a computer.  Then a bunch of the (much maligned) Amiga Inc. stuff... ha, if the current Atari iteration gets a lot of hate for NFT and Crypto, it was nothing compared to what Amiga Inc was doing, though I think it requires more hate.  I think Atari doing NFT and Crypto is more about a lack of sense than anything to do with hating their fan base, like killing off the thing that made the Amiga cool...

The crypto/NFT stuff is something I have zero interest in so I can't comment.  The Amiga thing is resolved, Cloanto now have the IP, legacy Kickstart ROMs etc.  Hyperion still have, now the legal stuff is settled, their license in to develop and sell newer versions of Amiga OS.

Edited January 6, 2023 by THX-1138

[stirrell]

11 hours ago, leech said:

Granted Commodore never had a game console

They did release an unsuccessful system based on the C64:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_64_Games_System

And, of course, there was the CD-32.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_CD32

[leech]

12 hours ago, stirrell said:

They did release an unsuccessful system based on the C64:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_64_Games_System

And, of course, there was the CD-32.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_CD32

Haha, you're of course correct, though both of those were just 'we'll try to rip the keyboard off our computer'.  I actually own a CD32.  But back in the day they never got a proper release in the USA (Some even say that is what ultimately killed Commodore, so many of them sat in a warehouse, and they were unable to sell them based on a lawsuit). 

I should have edited my post with 'they never had a successful game console.'  Though the sad fact is the CD32 got more games than the Jaguar did.

 

Edit: My CD32 also has a TF530 in it running at 50mhz.  Which in my mind and many others should have been the CPU it shipped with!  Granted much could be said about that observation for the A1200 as well).

Edited January 6, 2023 by leech

[Flojomojo]

On 1/5/2023 at 11:06 AM, leech said:

Granted Commodore never had a game console, but if they had brought out something similar to what 8-bit Guy is doing with the Commander X16, would they get the same amount of grief that Atari got for the VCS?

Did Atari VCS get a lot of grief in the larger world? Or just around here? 

 

As one of the big griefers for Atari VCS 2020, let me explain why I felt like I did. They went with a crowdfunding campaign from the least-trusted platforms, burned through two project runners, and had serious problems with their featureset and reason for existing. Their operating officer lied to press and their updates to backers were pathetic. They failed to respect their brand, their backers, and the larger audience. When the product finally launched after several delays, it was underwhelming both in terms of hardware and software, but at least they delivered something.

 

I can only speak for myself, but since the change in leadership at Atari, they seem to be a lot less ridiculous as compared to the Fred Chesnais days of "let's put Atari branding on crypto coins, hotels, and casinos!" In the Atari 50 collection, there's a video of founder Nolan Bushnell telling new Atari CEO Wade Rosen that for the last 20 years of its 50 years of existence, the company was not in the best of hands. 

 

What would you want to see from Commodore? They followed a similar trajectory to Atari (down, down down) but unlike Atari, they don't have much software of their own. There's a vibrant emulator community via Lemon64 and the Amiga people, and FPGA simulations through Analogue Pocket and MiSTer. The Commanderx16 project looks neat, kind of like PICO-8, a virtual game machine. I doubt it will set the world on fire, but a neat little hobby niche should always be welcome. 

 

If someone tries to slap the Commodore name onto some existing product, that doesn't bring anything new to the table, it will probably get ignored. I want to believe people won't buy any old thing just because it has a nostalgic brand attached to it. 

[THX-1138]

10 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:

As one of the big griefers for Atari VCS 2020, let me explain why I felt like I did.

Nah, you're ok.

 

11 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:

I want to believe people won't buy any old thing just because it has a nostalgic brand attached to it. 

Call it what you want, I have wanted a new, modern Atari computer since the ST went the way of the dinosaurs.  That's what I got and it's a bit boring having to justify that to anyone who doesn't get it.  Buy it or don't, the world keeps turning.  I've got what I wanted, so I'm happy.

[leech]

45 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:

What would you want to see from Commodore? They followed a similar trajectory to Atari (down, down down) but unlike Atari, they don't have much software of their own. There's a vibrant emulator community via Lemon64 and the Amiga people, and FPGA simulations through Analogue Pocket and MiSTer. The Commanderx16 project looks neat, kind of like PICO-8, a virtual game machine. I doubt it will set the world on fire, but a neat little hobby niche should always be welcome. 

 

If someone tries to slap the Commodore name onto some existing product, that doesn't bring anything new to the table, it will probably get ignored. I want to believe people won't buy any old thing just because it has a nostalgic brand attached to it. 

It is an observation I've made in the past as well, Commodore had hardware and an OS with the Amiga, but as far as software goes?  They barely supported it themselves.  I've thought about doing an 'Office Suite' comparison between retro systems.  You have AppleWorks for the Apple II series (with a IIGS version looking rather nice), AtariWorks, MS Works (around '95 it was at least called that) and... nothing by Commodore.  It could be argued that Apple just bought ClarisWorks and renamed it, but they at least had their own suite.  With Commodore it was all third party from what I have been able to find, and the one 'works' thing I found doesn't work well on any Workbench newer than 1.3...

 

They were never an arcade company, didn't make/publish their own games, etc.  So the real love of their hardware was in the hardware itself and what it did for developers and the game industry as a whole.  Which makes it extra silly to fight over the Amiga-NG systems, unless you really liked some of their applications, or the operating system itself (which I admit I love tinkering with operating systems.)

[zzip]

45 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:

Did Atari VCS get a lot of grief in the larger world? Or just around here? 

The Reddit VCS sub is worse.   Still very negative.   The tone of the AtariAge forums has shifted with a bunch of VCS fans here now.

 

On Youtube it's mixed.   Some negative/some positive and some creators who seem reluctantly positive "it's kinda sorta better than I thought it would be / please don't crucify me!" 

[zzip]

57 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:

I want to believe people won't buy any old thing just because it has a nostalgic brand attached to it. 

I've passed over many such devices, don't own any flashback devices, mini NES consoles or the like.   To me they are single use items that will clutter up the place and create more cables adding to the tangle that's already behind the entertainment center.    The reason I liked the VCS is because it is flexible enough to play all the games from my old systems in one place.

[stirrell]

8 hours ago, leech said:

Haha, you're of course correct, though both of those were just 'we'll try to rip the keyboard off our computer'.  I actually own a CD32.  But back in the day they never got a proper release in the USA (Some even say that is what ultimately killed Commodore, so many of them sat in a warehouse, and they were unable to sell them based on a lawsuit).

My memory was that demand and sales of the CD32 and 1200 were actually decent, especially in the UK, but that Commodore just ran out of resources. I always thought the CD32 and 1200 looked really nice and having the Amiga compatibility obviously helped the CD32 build up a decent library.

 

I wonder what the most successful computer sold as a game system has been… would it be the XEGS?

[MrMaddog]

On 1/6/2023 at 8:08 PM, stirrell said:

My memory was that demand and sales of the CD32 and 1200 were actually decent, especially in the UK, but that Commodore just ran out of resources. I always thought the CD32 and 1200 looked really nice and having the Amiga compatibility obviously helped the CD32 build up a decent library.

 

I wonder what the most successful computer sold as a game system has been… would it be the XEGS?

 

Commodore was unable to sell the CD32 in the States because they couldn't pay a settlement for a patten, so the federal court banned them from importing anything to this country till they paid up.

 

Against all the other 5th gen consoles that were coming out, it would have only been pruchased by Amiga fans anyway...much like the XEGS was mostly bought by existing Atari 8-bit users instead of console gamers.

[leech]

5 hours ago, MrMaddog said:

 

Commodore was unable to sell the CD32 in the States because they couldn't pay a settlement for a patten, so the federal court banned them from importing anything to this country till they paid up.

 

Against all the other 5th gen consoles that were coming out, it would have only been pruchased by Amiga fans anyway...much like the XEGS was mostly bought by existing Atari 8-bit users instead of console gamers.

At least those that bought the XEGS didn't have to blow into their cartridge for it to work! 

On that note, one of the funniest things I had seen was a guy who was trying to disprove that... ended up showing that it worked.  Wonder if the NES carts were coated in a similar thing as my Galaxy Z Fold 4's inner screen, as they both seem to be a magnet for dust!

[zylon]

On 1/8/2023 at 1:58 PM, leech said:

At least those that bought the XEGS didn't have to blow into their cartridge for it to work! 

On that note, one of the funniest things I had seen was a guy who was trying to disprove that... ended up showing that it worked.  Wonder if the NES carts were coated in a similar thing as my Galaxy Z Fold 4's inner screen, as they both seem to be a magnet for dust!

Your breath contains enough moisture to coat the cart pins with a conductive mist. This is what makes that effective, to a degree. My brothers all had Nintendo, and ended up blowing their games daily, despite my teasing.

[leech]

12 minutes ago, zylon said:

Your breath contains enough moisture to coat the cart pins with a conductive mist. This is what makes that effective, to a degree. My brothers all had Nintendo, and ended up blowing their games daily, despite my teasing.

Yeah, it's amusing.  I only ever had one cart on my Jaguar that doesn't like to load (if I try a few times I can usually get it to work), and that's Power Drive Rally.  Granted, outside of AvP, I think I may have played that one the most...

[MrMaddog]

On 1/8/2023 at 1:58 PM, leech said:

At least those that bought the XEGS didn't have to blow into their cartridge for it to work! 

 

 

Hah, that's surprising since XEGS carts don't have any protective covers that the eariler 800 carts had...

 

 

Quote

On that note, one of the funniest things I had seen was a guy who was trying to disprove that... ended up showing that it worked.  Wonder if the NES carts were coated in a similar thing as my Galaxy Z Fold 4's inner screen, as they both seem to be a magnet for dust!

 

Don't ask me how or why it works, it just does.  When I have problems using my debit card with a Verisoft reader, I blow on the smart chip and it works the second time. 

[leech]

31 minutes ago, MrMaddog said:

 

Hah, that's surprising since XEGS carts don't have any protective covers that the eariler 800 carts had...

 

 

 

Don't ask me how or why it works, it just does.  When I have problems using my debit card with a Verisoft reader, I blow on the smart chip and it works the second time. 

Ha, I think I decided I was going to collect the XE style carts, as there are way too many for the old style, but man that old style gives me the feel goods  

[Keatah]

Thing that made original Atari a cool company to us kids of the 70's was that they were actually making new games. "Cartridge Day" tended to happen when the weather was bad. We'd trek to a department store, peruse the aisles, and walk out with anywhere from 1 to 6 cartridges.  We could always count on something new every month.

 

I just don't see that happening today. Everything seems to be rehash after rehash. And we don't need a new mascot either. Never had one BITD.

[+OLD CS1]

On 1/16/2023 at 5:16 PM, MrMaddog said:

Don't ask me how or why it works, it just does.  When I have problems using my debit card with a Verisoft reader, I blow on the smart chip and it works the second time.

It is the mechanical re-seating of the contacts.  In the case of blowing on it, there is also the factor of moist breath seating on the contacts, however minute and for however long that lasts.  Might as well have licked it.

 

Whenever my EMV card does not work (read error, &c.,) I just push hard on the card.  Has only failed once and after re-seating the card twice I just wiped the chip contacts with my finger and it worked afterward.  Coincidence?  Perhaps.  BITD we had alcohol-soaked reader cleaners, rigid cards made from a light abrasive material, we used to run through our magnetic strip card readers to clean them.  They were similar in purpose to cassette tape, VCR, and floppy disk head cleaners.  You could almost always see the dirt and grime build-up on the cards, and it kept our stuff working just fine.  Receipt paper wrapped around a credit card would sometimes provide the same results.

 

Never licked one, though.  Probably should have.

[Keatah]

Works via several mechanisms. Surface corrosion a few atoms thick which then make that surface rough. A rough surface grinds and scrapes the debris away. Trapped moisture is conductive. A damp surface causes the debris to collect into larger spheroid particles, like snowballing. There's a couple of books about contactology if you want to know more.

[+OLD CS1]

1 hour ago, Keatah said:

There's a couple of books about contactology if you want to know more.

So, licking.  Got it.