mutil8 Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 Never having used either of these drives, I am curious - Which one is considered better? Factors would be speed, amount of storage, reliability, compatability, etc. I purchased an Indus GT drive as part of a package recently, havent tested or set it up at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zolaerla Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 I played around on the SIO/software side with all sorts of drives, at least via emulation, in another post, along with a lot of research on various drives: I can't tell you much about the physical properties of them, as the only physical drive I have at the moment is a 1050. This is all from documents and playing with various firmwares and custom SIO code. I can't tell you how compatible they are with anything, but since both of them do accept standard SD Atari disks, you shouldn't have a situation like the 815 where it only accepts DD disks and not SD disks like everything else. However, anything that is supposed to support SD and DD disks *should* work well with them since they both support the Percom extensions which are pretty much required for consistent extended disk support. Apparently the stock Indus GT doesn't go any faster than any other drive (40 or $28 divisor rate = ~19,120BAUD), but there is a way their disks let Synchromesh/Super Synchromesh software control the drives to go a lot faster. I don't know anything about how those work. Super Synchromesh supposedly reaches all the way to divisor 6 (= ~68,836BAUD) on the SIO for speed, whereas standard Synchromesh only gets to 16 ($10 = ~52,640BAUD) which is still pretty nice, though I believe the disks need to be formatted with a high-speed skew to get an optimal speed (SIO command $A1). They support ED and DD disks, but not double sided disks so far as I'm aware. The XF551 natively supports divisor 16 ($10 = ~52,640BAUD), though some of them had synchronization issues with PAL Ataris at high speeds, and need formatting with a high-speed skew for optimal speed as well (SIO command $A1 again). They also support ED, DD, and even DSDD (double-sided) disks, though they always assume every DD disk is double-sided. Realize that an SIO patch (Hiassoft's excellent HISIO patch can update an XL/XE's OS) or alternate OS like SpartaDOS that support the higher speeds would be necessary to get the higher speeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peri Noid Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 XF551+HyperXF is much better. Period. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bf2k+ Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 It's a matter of what you like. I've owned several... 551 + HXF, 551HXF + 3.5", and Indus GT + Ramcharger I no longer own any XFs but I still have my Indus because I preferred it over the XFs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SoulBuster Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 2 hours ago, Peri Noid said: XF551+HyperXF is much better. Period. This!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 (edited) XF pcb's are fragile, and depending on the mech will have to have an index hole punched for 'flippy' 1050/810 style disk use. They are moderately fast and 360 K iNdus Gt's are tanks and can do higher speeds, emulate US doubler, and run as a CP/M machine. 180 K XF do Double Sided Double Density GT so Single Sided Double Density I have both, and I use the XF for archiving as the dual heads are smooth and don't take the media off of disintegrating disk like a felt pressure pad on a disk does. That is the same reason why I recommend Double sided drives be used for archiving single sided disks. This is what I advise be used for Kryoflux, SCP, Greaseweazle etc as well. It's the best chance to image disks without damage and the heads can be cleaned easily. Felt pressure pads can be a hassle to clean or replace and they slough up loose dirt/media material. Good disks I use in the iNdus GT... double sided double density and marginal disks I use in the XF Edited January 18, 2023 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 16 hours ago, Zolaerla said: I played around on the SIO/software side with all sorts of drives, at least via emulation, in another post, along with a lot of research on various drives: The XF551 natively supports divisor 16 ($10 = ~52,640BAUD), though some of them had synchronization issues with PAL Ataris at high speeds, and need formatting with a high-speed skew for optimal speed as well (SIO command $A1 again). They also support ED, DD, and even DSDD (double-sided) disks, though they always assume every DD disk is double-sided. Realize that an SIO patch (Hiassoft's excellent HISIO patch can update an XL/XE's OS) or alternate OS like SpartaDOS that support the higher speeds would be necessary to get the higher speeds. Hmmm, afaik the XF551 with original OS works with approx. 19k2 Baud in standard mode and approx. 38k4 Baud in highspeed mode, it does NOT reach 52k baud, like some ultraspeed drives. The Hyper-XF (an XF with alternative Hyper-XF-OS) however does ultraspeed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zolaerla Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 3 minutes ago, CharlieChaplin said: Hmmm, afaik the XF551 with original OS works with approx. 19k2 Baud in standard mode and approx. 38k4 Baud in highspeed mode, it does NOT reach 52k baud, like some ultraspeed drives. The Hyper-XF (an XF with alternative Hyper-XF-OS) however does ultraspeed. Darn it, I used 10 decimal to calculate the speed, not $10! You're right, divisor 16 ($10) is ~38900BAUD on NTSC systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrbrevin Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 i believe the XF side2 data is written backwards and thus canot be read on a single-sided drive 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peri Noid Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 Of course it cannot. First of all, a disk spins "in the opposite direction" there. Second, the first sectors on this side are incorrect from the perspective of an Atari approach. Third, there is no directory structure there, its on the first side. The problem. Is, the data is ordered in such way that its actually impossible to read the second side on any other double sided disk drive for Atari. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 The Indus is a very good drive and has some definite advantages, but the XF has some advantages too -- it has a 1772-2(-2) FDC and as such has excellent data separation capabilities. That is important in DD mode. IIRC, it has no belt, so it should be more stable. It is also very quiet for a FDD. Lot's of capactity with 360K, but the DS/DD format is also a curse since it is incompatible with just about all other drives. I personally always believed that the XF is best used as a 720K upgrade with the CSS or HyperXF upgrade. Fast forward to the 21st century... While some folks still like the retro appeal of real disk media, ATR's are where it's at now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SoulBuster Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 I have to agree with Larry. Unless you are archiving from real disks, there is no need for physical disk drives today. But in order to get to that point, you will have to buy some hardware that can load ATRs, ATXs, CARs, and XEX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 You never know and can't predict when you'll encounter a cache of disks in your Atari trek, it's prudent to have at least 2 working drive at the ready. Get them at your leisure only when the price is low and the condition good, then you won't have to shell out to handle things later. Having to wait, paying to ship while risking damage or loss disks, all while waiting for someone else to hopefully image them for you is no fun. A sio to pc or other device to get your software to other venues is also a must. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+kheller2 Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 Don't forget you can convert the GT to US Doubler: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 The Indus GT (when upgraded with a RAM board) functions as a full CP/M computer, the Atari acting as the dumb terminal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark2008 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) I've owned both, I just use XF551 today - 360k and all, it's got more space. I can see not using floppies at all. But for my workflow, it's handy. I just put some config files on the floppy for machines that default to d1 to read a config.sys - i.e. with sdx on cart, but no u1mb, floppy gets read on boot. I have disks over 180k, but generally they are atr images that I have on an sd card, its kind of neat they could go to a real floppy if still under 360k but - probably have not done that in half a year. My favorite drive for a while was a 720k toms 720, because of the interoperability with the pc. But, in the end, to be my favorite today it'd still have to be alive, poor little guy, didn't make it. Edited January 20, 2023 by Mark2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Mark2008 said: I've owned both, I just use XF551 today - 360k and all, it's got more space. I can see not using floppies at all. But for my workflow, it's handy. I just put some config files on the floppy for machines that default to d1 to read a config.sys - i.e. with sdx on cart, but no u1mb, floppy gets read on boot. I have disks over 180k, but generally they are atr images that I have on an sd card, its kind of neat they could go to a real floppy if still under 360k but - probably have not done that in half a year. My favorite drive for a while was a 720k toms 720, because of the interoperability with the pc. But, in the end, to be my favorite today it'd still have to be alive, poor little guy, didn't make it. awe if the body is still around, perhaps some kind soul could revive the little guy, miracles happen, and miracles come true. Of course if you've left it go, hopefully it's gone on to bigger and better things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark2008 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 I'm afraid its swimming with the ET cartridges at the great alamagordo in the sky. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 5 hours ago, Mark2008 said: I'm afraid its swimming with the ET cartridges at the great alamagordo in the sky. they dug those up poor little guy has to wait for his digging and resurrection days now, such sorrow and hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutil8 Posted January 22, 2023 Author Share Posted January 22, 2023 So finally unpacked this, part of a larger lot i got off ebay. Pretty damn cool to me, never having had one. Cant find the power supply though LOL. Its probably in this giant mess Ive created in the last couple weeks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutil8 Posted January 22, 2023 Author Share Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) OK i am pretty sure this is it: no indus markings on it but looks like indus outsourced the power supplies? And are these considered safe to use after almost 40 years? Edited January 22, 2023 by mutil8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 2 hours ago, mutil8 said: OK i am pretty sure this is it: no indus markings on it but looks like indus outsourced the power supplies? And are these considered safe to use after almost 40 years? That's the supply I have with mine (and am still using). I've not heard of any issues with these supplies, although given the fact it is an AC to DC regulated supply, there are always components that can fail. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari8guy Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 My solution to which drive is better is simply to buy both and leave it undecided. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutil8 Posted January 25, 2023 Author Share Posted January 25, 2023 Got the indus drive hooked up. So far appears to be working fine. It got hung up the first time I formatted a disk and I got worried. After a long time I got a bad disk error. Tried with a different disk and worked fine along with duplicating the dosxl master disk. Certainly much less noise from the drive than a 1050. Not sure what the speed improvement over 1050 is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+kheller2 Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 On 1/22/2023 at 11:24 AM, mutil8 said: So finally unpacked this, part of a larger lot i got off ebay. Pretty damn cool to me, never having had one. Cant find the power supply though LOL. Its probably in this giant mess Ive created in the last couple weeks. What is that top right sheet about, and what's inside the pretty envelope? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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