What would you want to be able to buy from Atari…

[Giles N]

1 hour ago, zylon said:

A portable with a set of cart-dump adaptors, with internal memory for your games, would do the job

… Atari be like selling that…?

[Giles N]

On 1/27/2023 at 11:54 PM, zylon said:

cart-dump adaptors,

… ok, guess I’m so little aquainted with hardware, I dunno what ‘cart-dump adaptors’ are…

 

What is a cart-dump adaptor…?

What does it do…?

What does ‘dump’ refer to (why not just ‘cart-adaptor’…?

 

If its about some sorr of multislot-thing… sure, Atari should 

1) get one out there for the (beta?)-VCS

2) make a portable VCS version with this, whatever it is… as long collectors can insert and run collectible hardware-carts …

[Keatah]

I would simply like an original VCS done in every 70's detail. The same everything. Same "discrete" chips. Same cosmetic styling. Same switch action. And I wouldn't mind paying an extra hunnert or so to get that. This "new VCS" does not inspire me in any way - it's just a PC. And if I'm doing PC Imma do it properly with latest i7.

 

On 1/25/2023 at 5:30 PM, Giles N said:

Ok, - for my own part I’d have to ‘transpose’ original fun to the 80ies -, but totally get your point (… how many these days wonder how Ghosts N Goblins should’ve been made as cool Game & Watch-thing, … 1 out of 7 billion..???), - but seeing your wish for the original fun, concrete questions arise:

 

- How would such  *fun*  look, sound and play, today on modern consoles…?

I'm not sure you can have 70's & 80's fun on a modern console. Sprawl of the cartridges on the shag carpet in a wintertime basement with pot-pie cooking in the oven, is but one aspect of the fun. The others are the adventure of accumulating carts. Reading EGM and eating at McDonald's prior to an excursion to get a new system or a bag of carts was a big thing. Playing at home with friends. More EGM reading while waiting your turn. Discussions of arcade vs home playing.. TV shows like BSG, CHiPs, $6M Man, Emergency One, Buck Rogers 25th Century, Salvage 1, and more.. Schoolyard banter. High score notebooks. So much of that was spontaneous. Today it's purposely recreated and a lot is lost there.

 

On 1/25/2023 at 5:30 PM, Giles N said:

- What made these early games so much fun; their atmosphere, inventivness, their gameplay-factor, their looks (as of their day), something else…? If so, what - if it can be described…? (guess, we all want good descriptions of what defines good gaming here).

As a continuation of above - Atari VCS didn't have one "Adventure" title. ALL the cartridges were adventures in and of themselves. Explorations into a new medium. Each a microcosm of unique rules and things to do. The aura was one the future. But flavored with family fun and colors and sounds.

 

And like the preceding red LED games - videogames and cartridges were becoming a household name. Everybody knew about the craze at the time. A sense of familiarity and warmth and comfort surrounded an evening of "Atari". Whether it was original Combat or a later RealSports title (and all in between) the carefree fun was the same.

 

Comparing the arcades vs home computer vs home videogame console was always a point of discussion. And we learned about each classification as we explored and experienced the respective games and software.

 

On 1/25/2023 at 5:30 PM, Giles N said:

Describe: dream-scenario Atari-2020ies gaming experience (If you feel like), [yes, have some ideas floating around in my head myself… but, for now, could be cool to hear The Folk sayeth…]

I don't think I desire modern mainstream gaming enough to have dreams about it. Let alone be spending tons of money on it either. Most modern games are simply "too much" and don't relax the mind or let it drift into a fantasy land of creativity and calm.

 

On 1/26/2023 at 1:45 PM, zzip said:

A lot of it was just novelty.   The fact that we could control what happens on a TV screen might be taken for granted now, but in the 70s it was completely a new thing for most of us.   So most games delivered some measure of fun if only because it was a completely new experience.

I experienced that novelty with games like Pong/Tennis or Tank, or Sprint 8 from Kee Games, and the other early B/W games. Whatever was popular in the West coast Pizza Huts in 75-77.. After that playing anything "videogame" was old hat. The 2600 was not a novel experience because it was on TV. But. Instead. Novel because it rose above fixed-function consoles with its cartridges.

 

I remember telling my grandparents how they would never have to get me another videogame if they got me the 2600. They wouldn't have to worry about wasting money on disposable one-game units. And I'd never get bored again. I conveniently left out the new cartridges they'd have to buy instead!

 

On 1/26/2023 at 1:45 PM, zzip said:

A lot of those early games didn't age well.     I find that only a fraction of the 2600 games I used to enjoy are still fun.

With a retro-mindset they are timeless. Especially if they were done by Atari, Activision, and Imagic. And maybe some select runners up from the likes of 20th Century Fox, Tigervision, M-Network, CBS, Apollo, Coleco, and Data Age. I grant you that there was more shit that shiny hits from low-brow publishers. But I only remember the crappies in name only as I didn't play them for long. I didn't do much bargain-bin hunting back then either. And that helped limit what I loaded up with.

 

I do clearly recall the flood of garbage resulting from me-too companies wanting in. Once that happened I no longer found it fun to collect as I had to actively search through everything and develop a discerning palate. And that meant effort.

 

The carefree days of buying a cartridge expecting (and getting) a good game were disappearing fast. The B-side titles I got I didn't know if I stupid for not finding them enjoyable, or of they were really shitty, or I simply didn't have the mental capacity and patience to appreciate the proverbial hidden gem. I couldn't rely on EGM and sister publications anymore, they didn't (couldn't) cover everything. And things like the Amiga and IIgs were entering my sphere of consciousness. Along with parents and grandparents (the ones that got me hundreds of carts) suddenly declaring "cartridge consoles" baby games that I needed to grow out of.

 

On 1/26/2023 at 1:45 PM, zzip said:

For a modern Atari to capture the kind of fun they used to deliver, I suppose they'd need to discover the next big gaming franchise,  and they probably don't have the funds to do that.  Most likely they just continue to be a nostalgia play.

I don't know what the next big franchise would be or even be like. There's so many modern ones I gave up on or didn't get into in the the first place.

 

I think the older demographic (if atari even thinks they're worth pursuing) has changed a lot. And I don't think the advertising gurus have hit their target. They don't understand I want easily accessed games without DRM and online updates and security checks from servers that will eventually sunset.

 

I no longer want a wall of cartridges - though I don't mind looking at old photos of mine or that of others. Yet I want to play the classics still get a blast of something new from time to time Modern-day emulation and MAME and stuff (on generic PC) is fulfilling that for me. I want a few things that represent the best of the past, but without all the edgy pomp and circumstance that is today's gaming landscape.

 

Give me a meaningful experience that's a continuation of what OG Atari started in the 70's!

[zzip]

13 hours ago, Keatah said:

On 1/26/2023 at 2:45 PM, zzip said:

A lot of those early games didn't age well.     I find that only a fraction of the 2600 games I used to enjoy are still fun.

With a retro-mindset they are timeless. Especially if they were done by Atari, Activision, and Imagic. And maybe some select runners up from the likes of 20th Century Fox, Tigervision, M-Network, CBS, Apollo, Coleco, and Data Age. I grant you that there was more shit that shiny hits from low-brow publishers. But I only remember the crappies in name only as I didn't play them for long. I didn't do much bargain-bin hunting back then either. And that helped limit what I loaded up with.

There's so much of what made them fun the first time around that you can't recapture though.  Going into stores and seeing all those bright-colored game boxes looking at all the screenshots on back, wondering what they are like.  You or a friend bring on of them home and everybody gathers at their house and plays the game for several days, impatiently waiting your turn.

 

And a lot of them are brand-new experiences.   Trick Shot (never played a pool video game before),  Fishing Derby (wow I can fish too?!)  Freeway (I hadn't even seen Frogger at this point, Why did the chicken cross the road?  IDK, let's find out!)

 

But when I go back and play them now:  Trick Shot?  There's much better pool simulations out there now, why bother with this?   Freeway?  Obviously an inferior frogger rip off, why play this when I have the real thing?    I find the early Activision games in particular aged poorly--  maybe everything before Pitfall   Activision was always wowing us with better graphics than we'd ever seen on the 2600,  that we didn't notice how basic the gameplay in the early games was.

 

In fact even back then we were so focused on whatever the newest game was that we got that we didn't return to the old ones all that often.  I remember playing the hell out of Fishing Derby the weekend my friend got it but don't remember playing it after that.   I think we got bored of them fairly quickly then too, but were too focused on the newest shiny thing to dwell on it.

 

These days there's only a handful of 2600 games I still return to.

 

14 hours ago, Keatah said:

I do clearly recall the flood of garbage resulting from me-too companies wanting in. Once that happened I no longer found it fun to collect as I had to actively search through everything and develop a discerning palate. And that meant effort.

To me this was a fun time.   All those games ended up in the bargain bin and we didn't have to risk more than $4.99.   If it was bad, oh well not a huge loss!  But we did find hidden gems and games with unique mechanics (not necessarily great mechanics, but unique )   And maybe we got lucky or knew what to avoid but I don't remember buying all that many truly awful games.

 

15 hours ago, Keatah said:

I think the older demographic (if atari even thinks they're worth pursuing) has changed a lot. And I don't think the advertising gurus have hit their target. They don't understand I want easily accessed games without DRM and online updates and security checks from servers that will eventually sunset.

 

I no longer want a wall of cartridges - though I don't mind looking at old photos of mine or that of others. Yet I want to play the classics still get a blast of something new from time to time Modern-day emulation and MAME and stuff (on generic PC) is fulfilling that for me. I want a few things that represent the best of the past, but without all the edgy pomp and circumstance that is today's gaming landscape.

 

Give me a meaningful experience that's a continuation of what OG Atari started in the 70's!

I don't think the older demographic truly knows what it wants. you might not want cartridges but others will insist "no it has to be real carts!"

 

Like what does a continuation of what what Atari started in the 70s mean in the 2020s?  Is it the Recharged series?   Is it games with 70s style graphics?  Is more modern graphics but not too modern?  Is it something different than the homebrew community is already doing?

 

New hardware?   Well here's a new VCS powerful enough to play any game Atari has ever released on any console, computer or arcade cabinet, and much more, with controllers built by a company that knows how to build controllers and no DRM.       NO!!!  Not like that!   That's PC based, it needs to be a completely proprietary chip-set shipped with a barely functioning dev-kit that few know how to program properly leading the community to constantly annoy those few developers by begging for ports.  Also needs to have controllers designed with a poor sense of ergonomics and break easily and must have a cart slot-  only then will it be just like the good ol' days

 

Or do we want Atari to be a relevant name again in game development, just like the old games, producing the next Minecraft, Roblox or Among Us?   No!  Not like that, those modern games suck.

 

I get the sense that a lot of people either don't know what they want or haven't thought it through.   I'm just enjoying the fact that Atari is focused on the Atari community again after years of doing weird things.

[Giles N]

20 hours ago, Keatah said:

the carefree fun was the same.

 

Comparing the arcades vs home computer vs home videogame console was always a point of discussion.

Yeah - and now arcade-machines that utterly outcompete home-console-games by the standards of comparing a Super-Block-buster movie to family/friends camcorders aren’t done any longer.

 

For myself, - I could easily imagine New Arcades - using hardware-capabilities of several thousand inter-linked super-computers w/servers, to give people a go at experiencing something akin to being within a blockbuster-action-movie-sequence, and showing their (+ online competitors/participants) game-session on big-screens for those standing-by.

 

Like, instead of playing Galaxy Force 2 in a moving arcade-cabinet, or Star Wars (Atari), having other people looking over one’s shoulders, - people would pay 5 bucks a credit, or just prior to session pay 50 bucks for 50 (initial) minutes, then how long you last depend on pure skill, - with the session being displayed on big-screens and gaming-hubs.

 

Like gaming-sports where everyone can pay to play in the sense of giving it a try.

 

Servers display the top-Movie-standard-like grfx, sound and music to several categories of audiences… 

 

You pay between 5-50$, and then you - a possible nobody - wouid have to perform and achieve in ‘broadcasted’ sessions, - but where the in-game grfx n sound would be tangential to movie-looks as of late 90ies, early ‘00s.

 

—

Different games would have different goals: some teaming up, others VS, etc.

 

—

 

Players could pay to throw themselves into something that played like a mix of afterburner, galaxy force, ace combat or atari star wars, - the visusls and audio being just a step below best movie effects - all real-time calculated, the hardware consisting of thousands of interlinked supercomputers + servers … the gameplay not more complex to initially get to than the afore-mentioned games.

 

Would be sort of cool to see and hear and play.

 

The economics - dunno.

 

People aren’t unwilling to pay to have rollercoaster-ride.

 

[Giles N]

21 hours ago, Keatah said:

So much of that was spontaneous. Today it's purposely recreated and a lot is lost there.

So… the gamers themselves need to have say in this… (?[<—]?)

 

… what would be so impossible with this…?

 
In my view, some (not all) of this just changed to fit the communication-standards of the time… all the online-games, whether massive or small-group … you get out there and play with others…

 

—

 

Ok, the link of peoples real selves behind inummerable avatars, with real comments about the game-quality, etc, may be stiffled by the possibility of - once using your real name, being your real self, - not the in-game-avatar, you may get sorta ‘socially fried n burned at the stake’

 

While back in the 80ies it was much more local and cozy; you got best up by your friends for being to much of nerd…

 

And did it change in content or scale…?

 

—-

 

Anyway, - if games is a part of common incliniation to something personally relaxing, fun, or something like the feeling of sports - just digital and infused the emotions of fiction…

 … have things really changed completely, ir have they morphed to utilize some other means…?

 
And if they put people to far away from the feelings of local/personal comeradery … what should be put in there to get people to feel their game-session to really be rewarding, - like ‘Wooo-aaah, … did you see that!!!  Not possible!!  … Yeah - take that one …! [… on a big screen in the local NewArcade linked to many other viewing-platforms etc, something interstellar blows spectaculary apart with thunder and fire…

… the session is put on a big screen on three lists; best local, best continental, best in the world…]
   (Just an example… can be or could be so much else…)

 

Yet, why wouldn’t gamers be expected to pay something extra for grfx which would ammount to Movie-standard…?

 

Do you think home-consoles are to close…?

 

What then about NewArcades showing off dynamic realtime stuff containing extraordinary effects and details and number of things happening in the game-world…?

 

I mean, like space combat in 8K or more with 100 000 of objects looking like coming out-of a blockbuster movie, moving about by their own in-game AIs, but with intuitive, simple-to-get-into gameplay-controls and objectives . . .

 

Wouldn’t gamers enjoy to experience such a ride…?

[Giles N]

21 hours ago, Keatah said:

Most modern games are simply "too much" and don't relax the mind or let it drift into a fantasy land of creativity and calm.

You mean like Ghost N Goblins 6th level second round did back in dem the old days, 

 

… or Afterburner from level … 4 onwards… 

 

… please make sure I agree to your point about drifting into a fantasy land… 

[Giles N]

22 hours ago, Keatah said:

This "new VCS" does not inspire me in any way - it's just a PC.

What I just don’t get is why being a modern VCS built on some PC-hardware, should have to or would have to, rule out an addition of hardware-stuff, making it backwards-compatible with original carts (yes, I’m speaking about a unit which have slots for original carts, or a port to link it to a device doing this…)?

 

Check out this:

 

https://www.timeextension.com/news/2023/02/ataris-50th-anniversary-box-set-will-cost-you-usd999-99

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Giles N

[Keatah]

I don’t know. A lot of that sounds kind of overwhelming and requiring excessive hardware. 

And the more immersive a game seems the more it is controlling you.

 

Not sure that’s my cup of tea.. having my head overclocked to deal with 8K and a 100,000 objects.

 

[Keatah]

4 minutes ago, Giles N said:

What I just don’t get is why being a modern VCS built on some PC-hardware, should have to or would have to, rule out an addition of hardware-stuff, making it backwards-compatible with original carts (yes, I’m speaking about a unit which have slots for original carts, or a port to link it to a device doing this…)?

 

Nothing is ruled out. It’s just a matter of a developer (with skill) taking the necessary time to do it.

 

In the real world I don’t think any company wants to get involved with physical media if they can avoid it.

[Giles N]

7 minutes ago, Keatah said:

A lot of that sounds kind of overwhelming and requiring excessive hardware. 

But Galaxy Force (II) did perform hardware-overkill by late 80ies arcade and home-console standards…

 

Thats precisely why it stood out…

9 minutes ago, Keatah said:

having my head overclocked to deal with 8K and a 100,000 objects.

… I don’t mean the player have to fight all 100 000 things in the background… just that the presentation is way, way, way-way, beyond anything a home-console could do as if today…

 

as for 8K… just eye-candy… as to a player ‘dealing with’, it’d be no different than empire strikes backs looking better than sci-fi flicks from the 50ies or 20ies…

 

Just spectacle, show and color…

 

[Keatah]

“NuArcades” and all that VR stuff is too much. Prefer real life.

 

I could see trying out a super-VR game once out of curiosity. To see how ridiculous it all is. But that’s not revenue-generating behavior. 
 

It’s like “Nu” Tron in 3D or ReadyPlayerOne. Just don’t like it.

[Giles N]

19 minutes ago, Keatah said:

In the real world I don’t think any company wants to get involved with physical media if they can avoid it.

… but if Atari need to fill in the gap between their homeconsole + software-production-years, and their purely software-production-years, 

… Atari cannot avoid it.

 

If other companies can, Atari can’t.

 

They shouldn’t go ‘yes, we can’t’ on this one…

 

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Giles N

[Keatah]

2 minutes ago, Giles N said:

I don’t mean the player have to fight all 100 000 things in the background… just that the presentation is way, way, way-way, beyond anything a home-console could do as if today…

I don’t know. It doesn’t interest me anymore. Not like it did in the beginning of the PC 3D craze.

 

I suppose you could just throw a couple of 3090s or 4090s at the problem and get that dynamic background pretty easily. Just add more parallelism to get moar.

 

I want my games to draw me in. Not overwhelm me.

[Keatah]

4 minutes ago, Giles N said:

but if Atari need to fill in the gap between their homeconsole + software-production-years, and their purely software-production-years, 

I’m not sure there is a gap. I don’t see one. Or I don’t see one as being relevant today.

[Giles N]

2 minutes ago, Keatah said:

NuArcades” and all that VR stuff is too much. Prefer real life.

I said NewArcades, like in my own perception of it.

 

Have nothing to say about anything selling off any concept by calling it ‘Nu’.

 

—-

 
It’s for me as easy as this: I can imagine a whole lot of hypothetical or potential gaming experiences.

 
I can add up some general ideas from whats popular out there among other gamers (and much the common taste I share, as long as its somewhat pick up and play … with notable exceptions like FlightSim 2020)

 

Yet, - for the rest I go by gut-feeling of what I think would satisfy my type of gamers (‘arcade’, be it Star Wars 1983 or Forza Horizon 2-5).

 

[Keatah]

Gnu, New, Nhoo, Nu.. All the same to me.

 

Bear in mind I still get excited playing Lemonade Stand, and Towers of Hanoi, on the Apple II.

[Keatah]

Flightsim 2020 is pickup and play compared to X-Plane or DCS World.

[Giles N]

7 minutes ago, Keatah said:

I’m not sure there is a gap. I don’t see one. Or I don’t see one as being relevant today.

Well, there is a massive gap from Jaguar onwards as to the category of production of specific new hardware units (home-computers and video-game-consoles, throughout medio 90ies to medio 2010ies, and now there’s the VCS-Beta), - and inbetween mostly software-licenses/productions.

 

Is it relevant…?

 

Depends.

 
Does Atari wants to sorta ‘hold its own’ in the hardware-sphere, or does Atari want to be a provider of software on hardware-platforms made by others?

 

- - -

 

Now, of course, as a matter of personal taste and wishes, that part is  entirely up to you.

 

[Giles N]

8 minutes ago, Keatah said:

Bear in mind I still get excited playing Lemonade Stand, and Towers of Hanoi, on the Apple II.

I get excited by wondering how ghost n goblins should be done on a game & watch device…

Edited February 15, 2023 by Giles N

[Giles N]

11 minutes ago, Keatah said:

 

Gnu, New, Nhoo, Nu.. All the same to me.

 

Well, get your point there.

 
What I meant was: 

Atari threw out the Lynx in the early 90ies… and Blue Lightning and other similar titles were just mindblowing…

 

It was hardware-ultra-overkill, they just got too few people onboard to make it commercial by number of games, titles and availability.

 

It could do things that 16-bit TV-consoles just couldn’t do as to hardware-performance.

 
Possibilities could be so wast.

 

Then they just didn’t get enough game-makers onboard for whatever reasons in time.

 

I mention this, since I didn’t grow up eith neither 2600 (PAL), nor 7800 (PAL), but the Lynx was just monster, and since I and my brother tried our hands at Amiga500 homebrewing back then, I just saw that the Lynx was a veritable little hardware-monster, and I wondered why Sega and Nintendo got the commercial stuff right, when the Lynx had such possibilities …

[Giles N]

22 hours ago, Keatah said:

Give me a meaningful experience that's a continuation of what OG Atari started in the 70's!

… and as to designs,   what   content -  what to see,

   what to hear,

   what and how to play,

   what to-do in-game,

   what to do socially,

   what to read,

   what make one dream, 

 

   - would make for that   continuation   
 of meaningful experiences that you got from Atari in the 70ies…?

[Keatah]

9 hours ago, Giles N said:

… and as to designs,   what   content -  what to see,

   what to hear,

   what and how to play,

   what to-do in-game,

   what to do socially,

   what to read,

   what make one dream, 

 

   - would make for that   continuation   
 of meaningful experiences that you got from Atari in the 70ies…?

Some of this stuff like the social and discovery aspects would be hard to come by today at our ages.

 

I don't think we need anything more than 80's music and the same sounds of the TIA/Pokey or SID. More of the same is fine. Playwise it must be simple and built around reaction time and hi-scores and one-on-one in-person play. Reading, well, there's plenty of scanned magazines from the golden era, the halcyon days, that I've not read yet. And then there's always science. Generic science stuff. Always something learn there.

 

It's also ultra-mega-easy to continue collecting. Even easier today. Easy to curate/collect a list of special favorites and categories from the millions of titles available on Internet Archive for example. And then make that list real and living through the magic of emulation. I'm still spellbound by the mystery of emulators and how modern processors can play games from 45 years ago! It's just binary bits, but as they say the sum is greater than the parts.

 

I like how Rom Hunter sorted all the VCS games into "company" category. All games made by Atari-Sears go into one folder, Activision another, Imagic another.. Well you know how it goes. Adding in ADDITIONAL categories from modern-day homebrewers is a fun thing. And there's discovery and adventure in exploring the capabilities of the ARM/Harmony platform. Certain homebrewers have earned their own sub-folder. It's a rare honor and only added 2 in recent times.

 

Now. I'm getting ready to add another game to my MAME setup soon. F-15 Strike Eagle. I played it as a kid on the Apple II, but I just learned NOW that it was an arcade game in 1991. Adding just a couple of games per year makes doing MAME seem like a collection. Sure you can get and use complete libraries at the click of the mouse - but using them seems to require a level of discipline that most are not accustomed to - to not get overloaded and make a shallow experience out of mindlessly switching between games every 30 seconds. To that end, my criteria is rather strict. I just set up the games I missed playing in the arcade. I leave the act of discovering new stuff to word-of-mouth and vintage magazines and some internet conversations. The adult equivalent of schoolyard banter perhaps.

[Keatah]

16 hours ago, zzip said:

There's so much of what made them fun the first time around that you can't recapture though.  Going into stores and seeing all those bright-colored game boxes looking at all the screenshots on back, wondering what they are like.  You or a friend bring on of them home and everybody gathers at their house and plays the game for several days, impatiently waiting your turn.

Yes that's missing. And it isn't easy replaced/substituted either. I've tried various tricks over the years with mixed results prolly because it's forced and expected. But like I just got through saying the previous post I find that vetting each and every game on my MAME rig is a good thing. And adding them in on weekends with good dinners and family gatherings is somewhat workable but YMMV. It helps when others are interested and want to play what you spent the last hour configuring and categorizing. And that's more rare these days because videogames aren't a national craze. Not a national sensation making the news every week. No sense of awe and wonder at a new entertainment format.

 

I do miss the ASMR-like colorful boxes and carts arranged just so. The colorful catalogs with simple soft-edged fonts and kid-sized words and kid-sized sentence structures. That's cozy and home-like and so family-like. Today building and maintaining a library of special favorites evokes similar feelings. But it's a slow ongoing thing, like monitoring investments and tweaking and reallocating them. Just a little bit. Never going overboard. Never getting bogged down with 10,000 games you have no interest in.

 

Oh you can acquire complete romsets instantly from hundreds of sites. But pulling your favorites and setting them up just right is a good thing. This year may be a big year. I could potentially add 10-12 games to MAME rig this year! Huge! Considering there were years I added only 2, or 3, tops.

 

16 hours ago, zzip said:

And a lot of them are brand-new experiences.   Trick Shot (never played a pool video game before),  Fishing Derby (wow I can fish too?!)  Freeway (I hadn't even seen Frogger at this point, Why did the chicken cross the road?  IDK, let's find out!)

 

But when I go back and play them now:  Trick Shot?  There's much better pool simulations out there now, why bother with this?   Freeway?  Obviously an inferior frogger rip off, why play this when I have the real thing?    I find the early Activision games in particular aged poorly--  maybe everything before Pitfall   Activision was always wowing us with better graphics than we'd ever seen on the 2600,  that we didn't notice how basic the gameplay in the early games was.

Yes. However the basic gameplay matched our childlike minds back then. LaserBlast is horribly boring. But back then just being able to play it for 1/2 hour straight was a noteworthy accomplishment (for me).

 

I was rather adept at separating graphics from gameplay when I wanted to do so. Sometimes I'd play just for the graphics. Other times to experience the physics (Triple Action, Space War with gravity, and others). And then the discovery of easter eggs and bugs. Or just plain beating the neighborhood hi-skor.

 

16 hours ago, zzip said:

In fact even back then we were so focused on whatever the newest game was that we got that we didn't return to the old ones all that often.  I remember playing the hell out of Fishing Derby the weekend my friend got it but don't remember playing it after that.   I think we got bored of them fairly quickly then too, but were too focused on the newest shiny thing to dwell on it.

I was rather all over the timeline. Both in console/cartridge games as well as computer games on the Apple II and Atari 800.

 

16 hours ago, zzip said:

These days there's only a handful of 2600 games I still return to.

I revisit all my favorite games. Sometimes just to say hello and enjoy a blast of nostalgia. Sometimes I play at length. It all depends.

 

16 hours ago, zzip said:

To me this was a fun time.   All those games ended up in the bargain bin and we didn't have to risk more than $4.99.   If it was bad, oh well not a huge loss!  But we did find hidden gems and games with unique mechanics (not necessarily great mechanics, but unique )   And maybe we got lucky or knew what to avoid but I don't remember buying all that many truly awful games.

I was more in collector mode by that time. Once I strayed away from the big names I mentioned earlier I rather lost interest. There was just so much to try and keep track of. My collection grew from a small handful of carts to the thousands. There was a sweet spot when my library was nicely balanced and rich. But it soon got diluted and impossible to continue because of time limitations.

 

16 hours ago, zzip said:

I don't think the older demographic truly knows what it wants. you might not want cartridges but others will insist "no it has to be real carts!"

 

Like what does a continuation of what what Atari started in the 70s mean in the 2020s?  Is it the Recharged series?   Is it games with 70s style graphics?  Is more modern graphics but not too modern?  Is it something different than the homebrew community is already doing?

The homebrew community is doing a lot of what I like and want and expect. And as far as 2600 games go. I'm satisfied that the platform lives on in several formats and that some (but not all) of the newly made games are of superb quality. It's pretty much satisfying enough for me. I like "big-production" ARM Enhanced games. It's the next best thing to a true next-gen 2600, while looking and feeling and playing exactly like the OG 2600.

 

Recharged series and 70's style graphics (in HD/4K) isn't my style. I want that warm colorful look, and most new games and new "retro-looking" don't have the warm fuzzies of RF about them. They have cold palettes and sharp edges. There's a certain tonal quality surrounding RF/NTSC graphics. And I want that look.

16 hours ago, zzip said:

New hardware?   Well here's a new VCS powerful enough to play any game Atari has ever released on any console, computer or arcade cabinet, and much more, with controllers built by a company that knows how to build controllers and no DRM.       NO!!!  Not like that!   That's PC based, it needs to be a completely proprietary chip-set shipped with a barely functioning dev-kit that few know how to program properly leading the community to constantly annoy those few developers by begging for ports.  Also needs to have controllers designed with a poor sense of ergonomics and break easily and must have a cart slot-  only then will it be just like the good ol' days

Eventually I will get the Atari controllers for use with my emulator rigs. They're not really "rigs" but instead theater-style SFFPCs. I'm sure the nuVCS is good and all that. But I am an Intel Fanboi through and through. So I've got to abide by that.

 

If the nuVCS became a cornerstone of emulation for early gaming (like MiSTer & R-Pi were doing) I wouldn't denounce it and write it off. But I guarantee you my panties would be bunched up something fierce.

 

16 hours ago, zzip said:

Or do we want Atari to be a relevant name again in game development, just like the old games, producing the next Minecraft, Roblox or Among Us?   No!  Not like that, those modern games suck.

Nutari could do both. I would be more excited by new games moreso than new hardware.

 

16 hours ago, zzip said:

I get the sense that a lot of people either don't know what they want or haven't thought it through.

I believe they simply haven't thought it through. And opinions, ideas, wants, and the very definition of videogames can and do change as the hobby evolves.. as people age and develop new perspectives.

 

They know what they want at any given moment. Don't kid yourself. What they want naturally changes with time.

 

16 hours ago, zzip said:

  I'm just enjoying the fact that Atari is focused on the Atari community again after years of doing weird things.

I think they could do better at scouting and reconnaissance. I think they need a few old school OG gamers on staff. Something to guide their focus more. But at least they are doing something for real.

[zzip]

4 hours ago, Keatah said:

Yes. However the basic gameplay matched our childlike minds back then. LaserBlast is horribly boring. But back then just being able to play it for 1/2 hour straight was a noteworthy accomplishment (for me).

Yeah Laser Blast, Megamania.  We played for hours when we got the carts.    But now when I play them it's yet another vertical shoot-em up, which were a dime-a-dozen back then.   These days, I'd rather stick with Space Invaders or maybe Galaxian if I'm in the mood for that kind of game and skip the rest.

 

4 hours ago, Keatah said:

22 hours ago, zzip said:

These days there's only a handful of 2600 games I still return to.

I revisit all my favorite games. Sometimes just to say hello and enjoy a blast of nostalgia. Sometimes I play at length. It all depends.

Yeah I do that too at times.  But usually not for more than a 5 minute session.   In addition to overly simple games, and knock-offs a big chunk of the 2600 library is arcade ports,  but why play the 2600 port when I can play the original in Mame?   The 2600 games I return to most are 2600 originals with some sort of objective--  Adventure, Raiders, Pitfall II, Spike's Peak.  If it's just endless waves of doing the same thing over and over:  shooting stuff, roping cattle, flying through barns,  it won't hold my interest long.

 

4 hours ago, Keatah said:

don't have the warm fuzzies of RF about them. They have cold palettes and sharp edges. There's a certain tonal quality surrounding RF/NTSC graphics. And I want that look.

but it's distortion.   I think back then I wanted nice crisp graphics like I'd see in the arcade when the cabinets were new and the monitors were pristine (before they started deteriorating).    But then I'd go home and play on aging televisions and have all sorts of weird ghosting effects, fuzzy images, blurry text and color distortions.  We wanted TVs with sharper images like Trinitrons to get away from that.  Even on emulators the only CRT effects I'll use are a light scanline (to soften the sharp edges) and artifacting (because some games use it for color).   All the other CRT effect just serve to distort the picture, add noise, make text blurry.   Yeah sure it might look like my friend's crappy console TV from 1967, but I want the games to look the way they were intended to look.

 

5 hours ago, Keatah said:

If the nuVCS became a cornerstone of emulation for early gaming (like MiSTer & R-Pi were doing) I wouldn't denounce it and write it off. But I guarantee you my panties would be bunched up something fierce.

That's exactly how I use mine.  It's more powerful than any Pi yet released, and Intel-compatible so it can run closed-source emulators that an Arm-based Pi can't.

 

5 hours ago, Keatah said:

I think they could do better at scouting and reconnaissance. I think they need a few old school OG gamers on staff. Something to guide their focus more. But at least they are doing something for real.

They have people on these forums.   I think they know what the community wants,  but at the same time they need to know what is marketable.   Just because a few retro enthusiasts on a forum think it would be great to have a device that can read any cartridge from any Atari system doesn't necessarily mean they could sell enough to make such a device worth building.