Another side3 problem ?

[Ataribobbey]

Hi guys,after some time of inactivity on my 800xl with last topic U1mb problem posted earlier  unfortunately i ran into a problem that wasn't resolved 100 %.

The problem that still remains is that when i am playing bombjack (320k) after a few minutes of playing the screen freezes and computer locks up.The funny thing is it only occurs (just like i mentioned in previous post)with side3 mounted in A800xl slot.Pictures will be added.

I moved the U1mb + Side 3 over to my tacky and crappy 130 xe and it works spot on.

Not knowing why this problem remains i decided to swap dram for mn type and km (Samsung type 150 nS). No effect..

My original delay line chip was broken during removal and was not working at all so i had to look for replacement parts.

I found one on sellymyretro from a guy from the Netherlands (the do it yourself kit with 3 capacitors and 3 resistors) and it works.

I found another on eBay from Poland(galtron) 

And that one also works.

But the problem still remained. I even ordered the sram64kb v3 from lotharek because i love the design (although it was not required)

Hooked up the sram64kb,removed the dram and delay line and works nice together with u1mb.

With side3 added again a hole new problem came sometimes it booted  into the loader with strange thin lines flickering where there should be text.the sd card(s) were not found and the computer (keyboard ?)did not respond anymore.

So reverted back to dram and delay line from galtron because combination side3 and sram gave more problems.Now i am really getting frustrated.Because of lack of knowledge i cannot proceed like a chicken with influenza.

Off course i can mount all items in 130xe and start playing instead of complaining But i really love my 800xl for many reasons.

Is it the lack of Freddy chip perhaps?.is it antic which is not 100% I don't know anymore.

Now the pictures.Hopefully anybody

Anybody who knows more tricks. ??

[Beeblebrox]

Out and about so skim reading but can you try the antic chip from the 800XL in your XE (if socketed?) 

 

Edit: also check the sockets for continuity and maybe clean with detox/contact cleaner. 

 

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[Ataribobbey]

I already ordered a spare pal antic on eBay but it has to come from California to the Netherlands so i am still waiting for it.

I will exchange as soon as possible. Thnx for your reply.😜

[Beeblebrox]

37 minutes ago, Ataribobbey said:

I already ordered a spare pal antic on eBay but it has to come from California to the Netherlands so i am still waiting for it.

I will exchange as soon as possible. Thnx for your reply.😜

Sure. Bet that cost a bit? PAL antics are really hard to come by. Wish someone had made a modern replacement. 

 

What I actually meant was rule out the antic you have in the 800XL being a failing IC by taking it over to your XE (if XE has a socketed antic), and testing it in that working machine. 

 

If you need to socket the XE antic first it's another step, but at least you'll know if the antic from your 800XL is OK. 

 

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[Beeblebrox]

BTW just noticed in your 800xl with the sdram module you have the Ci hooked up to a cash inhibit connection on pin 11 of that logic IC. Did you follow the instructions for when an U1MB is present? I think there is another wire you need to hook up between the sdram board and u1mb. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[Ataribobbey]

Yes i am aware what you ment.

I have to desolder the antic of my 130 ,install socket and proceed.

I can only perform such tasks at my work.

Btw i am electronics tester.

Yep pal antic are expensive nowadays but i want to have at least one in stock.

Casinhibit line can be taken from pin 16 of. Mmu or in my case pin 10 of 74f08.the other wire is external select and not really needed with u1mb.

According to lotharek info is is needed for other extensions(Rapidus etc).

I did solder the second wire..No effect..

Whithin a couple of days i will see if both antics perform in the same manner.

Will get back........

[Beeblebrox]

Cool. Also just read ya initial thread through. One thing to definitely try is to replace 74ls08 with a 74f08. Well known stability fix for using side3 and/or u1mb in machines and in particular the line glitches you describe. 74f08's are peanuts. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[Ataribobbey]

74 F08 was the first thing i swapped for the slower S08.

[flashjazzcat]

It's unclear to me whether this problem can be replicated when SIDE3 is not present or when the game is loaded over SIO instead of from the SD card. There's little point in replacing anything but 74LS08 if the machine can run the game from another storage medium.

 

When troubleshooting, it's prudent to remove additional components until the problem goes away rather than throwing an increasing number of non-standard parts at the issue (this only presents more potential points of failure). Has the integrity of extended memory been tested (with XRAM or similar)?

Edited January 22, 2023 by flashjazzcat

[Ataribobbey]

You are correct Fjc.changing items can give more problems.

Beeblebrox suggested to swap Antic.

I desoldered "good" Antic from my 130 xe installed a socket off course and placed this antic into the 800 xl.

At some point in time there was still glitching and when there was a screen change the computer locked up again.

I checked the base Ram by popping it into zx spectrum 48 board.was easily to check.

Bear in mind that i do not have the original delay line chip.

I have 2 replacement types but they both seems to work fine.

Furthermore i used many brands of sd cards and these gave no problems.

Again without knowledge of the problem i decided to remove the dram again and install the sram in cpu socket and soldered the wire "cas inhibit" to cas signal of 74F08.

I played games like bombjack and yie ar Kung Fu a couple of times (those games gave me the mentioned issues) and the issue did not came back again.

I am struggling a bit with my health condition at the moment so i did not spent a lot of time adressing

the issue.

I have to do more playing and testing to be sure if the problem has resolved more or less.

If the problem does not come up again,i can live with it.

Without decent oscilloscoop and schematics and knowledge of Atari it remains difficult  for faultfinding.

[Mclaneinc]

Health first, you can't play on the Atari if you are unwell (trust me, I know), look after yourself and come back to this when well..

 

Paul..

[Ataribobbey]

Thanks  Paul, its not a serious heath issue.I am diagnosed with PDS. Meaning having some minor pain sometimes to the intestant (gut).

Update :after just switching on the 800XL . It boots to the side3 loader,and after a few seconds the screen (computer ?) locks up again and does not respond to the keyboard again.I ran XRAM and it did not report a fault.

I have to continue eliminating problem step by step.🤕

[_The Doctor__]

I'd have swapped the CPU, sometimes a marginal CPU does strange things after a few minutes choose a sally with different markings, don't replace a mexico CPU with another mexico cpu.

[Ataribobbey]

Hmm makes cense.Today i discovered that it is NOT Side 3 related because the error occurred also when loading over SIO.

I quickly built U1mb back into 130xe and it works flawless.

I can now only desolder again a large custom chip (Sally) and stick into the 800 xl.

Are you suggesting that Mexico brand cpu are inferior.?

I shall order a new Sally online  as backup and spare one. 

Because the 130xe cpu seems good i will start exchanging this one.

Thanks again for your comment,it gives me new hope.

I was beginning to get a little frustrated again.

Wil get back ......

[flashjazzcat]

1 hour ago, Ataribobbey said:

Today i discovered that it is NOT Side 3 related because the error occurred also when loading over SIO

As I suspected, but I'm curious as to the title of the thread anway ('Another SIDE3 problem?'). Did you have a previous issue which was confirmed to be caused by SIDE3?

[Ataribobbey]

You are again right Jon.

The title was misplaced.It has nothing todo with side3.

Next item on the suspicious list is Sally.

[Ataribobbey]

On 1/29/2023 at 4:18 PM, _The Doctor__ said:

I'd have swapped the CPU

That's exactly what i have done.

Replaced the Mexican brand cpu for a non Mexican brand.It paid off.No more small glitches.Again i am happy  Thanks for the good advice TD.

[_The Doctor__]

Awesome, Now it's time to enjoy.

 

Your in Atari,

_TD__