520 ST with 512k RAM cant load Sysinfo

[sideburn]

Hey all,

 

I have a brand new stock 520 ST board I bought as a diner to troubleshoot another one that has a faulty RAM upgrade and neither of them are able to run SysInfo.

 

It says I need at least 250K to run sysinfo (v8.4)

 

I installed a desk accessory to show me how much ram I have and it says 326K on the new board and 325K on the faulty board.

 

I believe it is running TOS 1.04. They are both Rev H boards.

 

I need to be able to get info on these boards, especially info on the RAM.

 

Any ideas why it doesn't have enough RAM to run SysInfo and is there an older version or some other software I can get to diagnose these boards?

 

Thanks.

[Zogging Hell]

Is the desk accessory running when you are trying to run Sysinfo? 326k sounds about the amount left after you load GEM so is probably right. You would probably be better off downloading a minimal ram test program, there was one downloadable here https://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=30110 , if you think there might be a ram issue. Also the desk accessory could be eating up some of the 326k as well, so make sure it is not resident/ in memory.

[sideburn]

I found a copy of v4.04 and that one runs.

It is showing 318K available and 512K total.

It is showing TOS using 192K

Is this normal?

And if so what, if anything will run on this machine with only 318K?

So far I haven't had any luck getting any games to work.

 

 

[snarkdluG]

192K is for all tos version 1.04 and below (ST(f,m), MegaST). 256K rom is for 1.06 up to 2.06 (STe, MegaSTe). So this looks normal.

Most games should be run from disk and in autofolder (if you got 0,5-1Mb ram) so that GEM doesn't load and therefor save space for the game.

 

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by snarkdluG

[sideburn]

1 hour ago, Zogging Hell said:

Is the desk accessory running when you are trying to run Sysinfo? 326k sounds about the amount left after you load GEM so is probably right. You would probably be better off downloading a minimal ram test program, there was one downloadable here https://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=30110 , if you think there might be a ram issue. Also the desk accessory could be eating up some of the 326k as well, so make sure it is not resident/ in memory.

 

40 minutes ago, snarkdluG said:

192K is for all tos version 1.04 and below (ST(f,m), MegaST). 256K rom is for 1.06 up to 2.06 (STe, MegaSTe). So this looks normal.

Most games should be run from disk and in autofolder (if you got 0,5-1Mb ram) so that GEM doesn't load and therefor save space for the game.

 

 

Yes it is now but SysInfo wouldn't run prior to me getting there Desk Accessory.. I got that just to have something that could see the RAM

[Zogging Hell]

If you are having issues running games, it might be because a lot of recent hard drive adaptions require more memory to run than the originals would have done on disk, so some 512kb compatible games will now need 1mb. Best bet is to try an original or crack floppy game first, and avoid the hard disk versions until you are sure there is not a memory issue. If you run that memory test program though and it says the memory is good, then in theory most floppy games should work (bar the 1mb only later released games) and you will only have problems with some hard disk adaptions (these should say if they require 1mb though)

[sideburn]

I will try some more. I’ve tried a few already with not much luck. 
 

one problem is all I have is the ultrasatan. I don’t have a floppy drive. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by sideburn

[sideburn]

On 1/28/2023 at 11:52 AM, Zogging Hell said:there was one downloadable here https://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=30110 , if you think there might be a ram issue. Also the desk accessory could be eating up some of the 326k as well, so make sure it is not resident/ in memory.

BTW I was initially using this same ram test it never shows errors even on my other board that has the piggy back ram upgrade and it’s not seeing the upper banks of memory and it keeps crashing as if there’s a ram issue. So not sure how reliable that yaart ram test program is. 

[Zogging Hell]

I think if you are running things from Ultrasatan, then the driver software will be eating up some of your memory, which will make it tough on a 512kb machine. If you do want to get things running you might be best off trying to focus on some of the really early games - the early automation cracks for example have some games where they have about five on a disk - which are smaller in size and might not take up all the memory. Really though if you want to play from the Ultrsatan you will need to get a memory expansion installed.

There are some other ram test programs out there, the Yaart one was the first one that came to mind and appeared more comprehensive

[masteries]

YAART is good enough, don´t worry about it

 

1 MB is usually the bare minimun to execute hard disk adapted games;

as well, use hard disk adapted games that explicit says 512 KB RAM (there are some of these)

 

and try the good advice from snarkdluG, run these from AUTO folder

(its a folder you can create at the hard disk root, if memory serves me well,

any .prg placed here will be executed at computer startup).

 

 

[bfollowell]

2 hours ago, Zogging Hell said:

I think if you are running things from Ultrasatan, then the driver software will be eating up some of your memory, which will make it tough on a 512kb machine. If you do want to get things running you might be best off trying to focus on some of the really early games - the early automation cracks for example have some games where they have about five on a disk - which are smaller in size and might not take up all the memory. Really though if you want to play from the Ultrsatan you will need to get a memory expansion installed.

There are some other ram test programs out there, the Yaart one was the first one that came to mind and appeared more comprehensive

 

^  This, for sure. Also, if you're running HD versions of games, rather than running them off floppy, they take more memory to run than the same game would running from a floppy drive, much more in some cases. A base 520 without a floppy drive, using an US, would be hard pressed to run most games and pretty much useless for most productivity software. Usually, from what I've read, 2-4MB should be the minimum for running everything from an US.

 

[sideburn]

Thanks everyone. Yes none of the pre installed US HD stuff works. 
 

I’ve had a tiny bit of luck with converted .st image files / prg programs. I’ll try to hunt down some more, really just looking for some things to prove out that the machine is stable. 

[+DarkLord]

What hard drive software are you using? Most of them can adjust the caches/folder stuff to

reduce the memory footprint. You might want to check to see what it's set at now.

 

Also, have you tried a "bare bones" bootup before attempting to run the games? No ACC's,

no AUTO folder, etc,...

 

HTH's.

 

[sideburn]

I’m using the PP drivers that the US came with on a pre prepped sd card. 
 

No auto folder but I do have that free memory ACC file still. I’ll remove that. 

[ijor]

1 hour ago, sideburn said:

Thanks everyone. Yes none of the pre installed US HD stuff works.

I’ve had a tiny bit of luck with converted .st image files / prg programs. I’ll try to hunt down some more, really just looking for some things to prove out that the machine is stable. 

 

IMHO you are wasting too much time trying to diagnose your machines without a floppy. Do yourself a favor and get a Gotek. They are extremely cheap and widely available, including on Amazon. Of course that at a later time you might prefer to use the HD, but just for the purposes of diagnostic, the Gotek would be worth.

Edited February 2, 2023 by ijor

[sideburn]

Yeah I have a gotek in my Amiga. 
The situation is this has become a rabbit hole money pit. 
 

FIRST, I bought an Atari STacy computer. It has 4MB of ram. All good. 
 

Next, I bought an external US drive for it and it didn’t work with it and made the internal drive go bonkers. Luckily it came back to life. 
 

So then I dragged my 520 ST out of the closet that hasn’t been turned on for over 30 years to see it will see the US drive and if so, I could try changing the drive IDs and see if that solves the problem with the  STacy.
 

It did see the US and I did change the drive IDs but no luck working on the STacy. 
 

And since the 520ST (which has the piggy back 1Mb ram but is only seeing 512k) cannot run any of my software on the US and neither can the STacy, I am STILL hosed!

 

And now I have a new issue with the damn ram upgrade not working on the old 520 so THEN I bought a brand new 520ST board to trouble shoot the other one and also rule out any bad ram issues or whatever might be the problem on the original board but now that new board also cannot run any software off the US. 
 

so I’m still screwed with a brand new 520 board and a brand new US drive and a STacy that’s still a pain in the but to get software into its internal harddrive…

 

…which I am doing by finding floppy disk images online, then using a greaseweazle to write them to actual floppies using the Amiga floppy drive that I had previously removed and replaced with a gotek and connecting that with a greaseweazle to my PC laptop. 😂 🤦‍♂️ 

 

so yeah, now all I need to do is buy and external floppy for the 520 wich are crazy expensive. 
 

oh and yeah, I have a new problem to solve with the original board’s RAM issues. Hahah. Probably the smart thing to do is throw in the towel and sell all my ST stuff. But I’m not very smart and for some reason am fixated on solving problems. 
 

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by sideburn

[ijor]

On 2/2/2023 at 2:53 PM, sideburn said:

so yeah, now all I need to do is buy and external floppy for the 520 wich are crazy expensive

 

You can use a Gotek as an external drive, although it requires some work to connect it to the ST. Either use a non working external drive as the enclosure for the Gotek, or just build a custom cable.