Best Apple II joystick

[ColecoGamer]

What’s the best joystick for the Apple IIc?
 

I don’t mind using the keyboard, but sometimes a joystick would be nice. I’m also aware of the prices, too, which are very expensive.

 

If there are brands to avoid, please let me know!

 

I appreciate the help.

Edited February 4, 2023 by ColecoGamer

[newtmonkey]

I dunno about best, but the prices are indeed out of control right now.

 

I have one of these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/282645575066?hash=item41cefd359a:g:uo4AAOSwUIZis6W2&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoA3b6LTbAzIfV7FkMswyTFifNp2ejbJRlb0Hu8JyPAlq4prvkoGZhwZcJwly2SPrHALxkJndkyMNFw4yNTsrMHy%2BL%2FysYbq4pxPLtAYM%2B%2Bs68DWyKf65te7JYuKu%2B1erbdoM1%2FVj0mGaakzbPZyJE38gtzh%2BcIEoHE3P1nTiDPwV36v%2B4%2FrvJ0FqaisZGgzl1lxgUYUPI4p0CzyhtiEYNgY%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR-aLxNbDYQ

 

It's not the most comfortable thing to hold, but actually feels pretty decent if you place it on a surface and treat it like a tiny arcade stick, rather than a handheld controller.  It works fine, is of decent quality, and the stick is actually analog for games that support it.

[magnusfalkirk]

In my humle opinion the best joystick for the Apple II is the CH FlightStick and you can find one on eBay here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/354552262732?hash=item528cf6304c:g:zUUAAOSwZGpj2FMQ&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA8KpHzcXd6AdkAYUMBfNV90Qg2ZM9YOlm9RW%2BHXSzBOvs%2B30x4%2BxpbNkNVURSMkvowQETCfHHgeJrk93hbBM8r6WeHxz8RT02sGesrmTuYolIWAC7dljAjx9Vu%2BI0zUe2Nb74bI1mE9EhJy2tTTMyb7bVG7VdYFFKCzGPH6D2PCkwilhDudkeJ1kekVHeBHb5RMbq%2BazAIVmHkP7r%2Fh93QP9Voz4RWaQ1uV%2By2KQimKiLPrnqu07RGcL3RlGyyRqy5rR3tDs9ch6NskEzsPY3nyeJmcsttSnE6vet6bsNlsMrd7J7veRnxWQtna6VD6WwDA%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR5iKqd_DYQ

 

I've got one that I've had for over thirty years and am still using it with my Apple IIe

[nick3092]

Keep in mind that CH stick linked in the previous post is a PC joystick, and requires building an adapter with a few passive components to make it work with Apple.

 

Growing up with my Apple IIc, I have the original Apple stick. I never had any major complaints about it. Still use it to this day. But as someone else noted, they are very pricey right now.

 

If you want to use a genesis or snes pad, there is this adapter. Keep in mind that for the few games that benefit from an analog controller, they will see this as either off or all the way on. I know of a few games where analog can make it a little easier. But wouldn't be impossible to play them with this. Most games didn't take advantage of the analog controller anyway.

 

https://console5.com/store/byteboosters-sega-atari-snes-joystick-adapter-to-apple-ii-e-c-c-iigs.html

Edited February 4, 2023 by nick3092

[micheledipaola]

I bought a A2io : it goes into game port, connects via bluetooth with mobile phone, where an app will connect with a modern bluetooth controller and calibrate it.

[magnusfalkirk]

10 hours ago, nick3092 said:

Keep in mind that CH stick linked in the previous post is a PC joystick, and requires building an adapter with a few passive components to make it work with Apple.

 

Growing up with my Apple IIc, I have the original Apple stick. I never had any major complaints about it. Still use it to this day. But as someone else noted, they are very pricey right now.

 

If you want to use a genesis or snes pad, there is this adapter. Keep in mind that for the few games that benefit from an analog controller, they will see this as either off or all the way on. I know of a few games where analog can make it a little easier. But wouldn't be impossible to play them with this. Most games didn't take advantage of the analog controller anyway.

 

https://console5.com/store/byteboosters-sega-atari-snes-joystick-adapter-to-apple-ii-e-c-c-iigs.html

If you look at the box in the first pic. closeup, it says it's an Apple II flightStick. Not sure why someone would put a PC FlightStick in an Apple II box. Yuo could always ask the seller if it's actually a PC FlightStick or Apple II. There are other listings that might be Apple II, but not sure.

[nick3092]

4 hours ago, magnusfalkirk said:

If you look at the box in the first pic. closeup, it says it's an Apple II flightStick. Not sure why someone would put a PC FlightStick in an Apple II box. Yuo could always ask the seller if it's actually a PC FlightStick or Apple II. There are other listings that might be Apple II, but not sure.

I can't speak to the box. But that is very much a db15 PC connector, not an Apple db9. And I see no adapter or any other connector in the pictures. The auction description even says it's for IBM/PC and does not mention Apple at all.  
 

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by nick3092

[potatohead]

Yup.  PC joystick for sure.  The resistor values will be wrong.  PC = 150k pot, Apple uses 100k pot.

 

[ColecoGamer]

I’d like to thank everyone who replied. Right now its a toss up between that homemade NES-like controller and the adapter that works with Genesis controllers, which I have many.

 

That adapter may be the best option, because I can purchase Genesis controllers on the cheap at local retro game stores.

Edited February 5, 2023 by ColecoGamer

[magnusfalkirk]

Okay, I think I finally found an Apple FlightStick: https://www.ebay.com/itm/284698779714?hash=item42495ea042:g:A54AAOSw6mJiLQdm&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoHUv4%2BFVcUZ%2BP1HqDrZk1VGcePDOzUMSjwiC707ueUGFFkjPH6OQ9s6424yH3n%2F9ChKXOotiqKDe4Kg4FlO3ZxJFF4I6cs07l2GiF1Al03xyCCPfOQcPcfHBP1HSMpASrEtVmB9CinjQkaAFplaRbc%2FpzZfuiO5tGpQo88LP9eHq%2Bjja2dFX2myA4Mu1XFPUkWu7KOYq8pUkCaQrJ41YJOg%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR_rWz8LEYQ

 

If you look at the picture of the plug and then compare to this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/124563630355?hash=item1d00922913:g:za8AAOSwgjtgIBmX&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoCSjk7qUfi7OclkRC%2FYkL89hG2UlOmd22M3aAq61zpJHhgpHdrYfYepMReiurC06lYQpYxqCsDTBqR4cVqF9LceA0dhvjEXicaOW%2FvcakX0AWX42a8f5NwypZOwFsZ80kukKVHCjrGUkNhOR88j43pIAVQch9JxB35sC8NaY2aOyBYJZ%2FXfuQskrzHTXxsq8Nev9enpBt9Eh%2FCxfze51c6o%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR_TWz8LEYQ

 

The plug on the first one is smaller, which an apple one would. i realize the listing says PC but that just means they may not know what they have.

[Golden Child]

My favorite joystick ever is the Hayes/CH Products Mach III.  They made these for the apple II and the IBM PC.  They made other variants like the Mach I, and Mach II which are pretty much the same thing except they don't have a button on the top of the stick.  I like the Mach III stick the best, the other sticks aren't as easy to grasp.

[BassGuitari]

Kind of a sidebar question here, but when did joysticks really become commercially available? They were occasionally referenced in the late '70s (and several games seem designed with them in mind), but they don't seem to have been widely available until the early '80s. Were they just obscure or did people have to homebrew their own (or both)?

 

 

[magnusfalkirk]

I think, I'm not sure so don't quote me, that they became commercially available in the 80's, at least for the Apple II. It would make sense since that was when more games were being put out that required ajoystick.

[CaptainBreakout]

I'm going to have to say the C&H product Mach 3 also.

 

I liked the Gravis stick ok, but it would break. I had like three of them since they would show up at garage sales. The rubber foam on it would also get weird and had the consistency of a dry kitchen sponge.

 

The EPYX 500xj was cool and I had one. The auto centering however seemed to only work for the first week I owned it. I remember this thing broke on me very quickly.

 

 

The CH product Mach 3 was the winner tho. That thing withstood all the hours of playtime I could throw at it.

 

I didn't like it for the design tho. It was just more durable. It had trim pots that had to be adjusted for each game. Most games had hard-coded analog joystick input values that varied game to game, so the POTS got adjusted A LOT!

 

That's probably why all the joysticks from other manufacturers broke. They used cheap pots. They would fail or get dirty after just a few adjustment sessions. Some games were programed for really wonky center values. Pretty much every title demanded some calibration time. 

 

It would be nice if someone made an adapter to use Playstation or modern analog gamepads for the Apple II. Seems there's a million video converters for every situation, and Bluetooth controller solutions for almost every console... But I'm not aware of anything modern that can harness the majesty of a PS3 controller and dump it into an Apple II game port. Heh.

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by CaptainBreakout

[nick3092]

5 hours ago, CaptainBreakout said:

It would be nice if someone made an adapter to use Playstation or modern analog gamepads for the Apple II. Seems there's a million video converters for every situation, and Bluetooth controller solutions for almost every console... But I'm not aware of anything modern that can harness the majesty of a PS3 controller and dump it into an Apple II game port. Heh.

 

There is a genesis/snes adapter sold by console5 that was recently updated to also handle ps1 and 2 controllers. No wireless ones though (ps3, 4, 5). But there are wireless controllers currently made for the ps1/2, like the Retro Fighters Defender. Not sure if the A2 joystick port could power the dongle, but maybe.

 

The adapter is out of stock right now, but it has been getting regular resupplies every couple of weeks. 

 

https://console5.com/store/byteboosters-sega-atari-snes-joystick-adapter-to-apple-ii-e-c-c-iigs.html

Edited May 16, 2023 by nick3092

[CaptainBreakout]

Keep in mind that the Apple II joysticks were analog all the way, and that's because the port was originally intended to be used for paddles.  So the joysticks are x and y of the paddle axis. Each game that used joysticks had a programmed range for the centering between 0 and 255.  Some of the better-programmed and especially the later games used an centering routine that adapted the game to your joystick when they started.

 

Some of the best games (Spare Change, Dino Eggs, Short Circuit, Drelbs, Robotron, Minute Man, Lode Runner, etc) did well with the joystick behaving like an 8-way arcade stick... But you were always using an analog stick and the centering was weird. I don't know how it works with adaptors for the Genesis controllers and stuff like that.  Good Apple II emulators usually had a user-input value for the centered position of a joystick when it was emulated with keys, as the centered range varied game to game (hold joystick in the upper left and press a button, etc.).

 

Some early games (Dino Eggs comes to mind) had support for a "gameport", which was an adapter made by Sirius Software that let you use an Atari Joystick.  Would love to see schematics on that.

 

Horizon V, Captain Goodnight, Airheart, Wings of Fury... Even good old Choplifter... And many more.  All these games took advantage of the analog joystick for fluid controls. You can't move the way it was intended with a d-pad.  I'd love to see these work on an adapted modern analog gamepad. I bet there's some tweeking and fiddling to be done tho game to game.

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by CaptainBreakout

[nick3092]

Yeah, there are a small number of games that utilize analog controls. The vast majority just read the pot as "digital" (on or off). The adapter I linked to does appear to support analog sticks on ps1/2 controllers with them (early ps1 were digital only). I haven't tried this new ps version yet. I do have the older one. And yes, if you are using the genesis or snes option on the adapter, it will always be on or off. 

[SSG]

On 2/4/2023 at 4:24 PM, nick3092 said:

Keep in mind that CH stick linked in the previous post is a PC joystick, and requires building an adapter with a few passive components to make it work with Apple.

 

Growing up with my Apple IIc, I have the original Apple stick. I never had any major complaints about it. Still use it to this day. But as someone else noted, they are very pricey right now.

 

If you want to use a genesis or snes pad, there is this adapter. Keep in mind that for the few games that benefit from an analog controller, they will see this as either off or all the way on. I know of a few games where analog can make it a little easier. But wouldn't be impossible to play them with this. Most games didn't take advantage of the analog controller anyway.

 

https://console5.com/store/byteboosters-sega-atari-snes-joystick-adapter-to-apple-ii-e-c-c-iigs.html

I use this same adapter on my IIc with a Genesis controller and it was a game changer. Since I bought it I haven't really been using my II+ anymore.

[H454]

On 5/16/2023 at 10:48 AM, CaptainBreakout said:

Keep in mind that the Apple II joysticks were analog all the way, and that's because the port was originally intended to be used for paddles.  So the joysticks are x and y of the paddle axis. Each game that used joysticks had a programmed range for the centering between 0 and 255.  Some of the better-programmed and especially the later games used an centering routine that adapted the game to your joystick when they started.

 

Some of the best games (Spare Change, Dino Eggs, Short Circuit, Drelbs, Robotron, Minute Man, Lode Runner, etc) did well with the joystick behaving like an 8-way arcade stick... But you were always using an analog stick and the centering was weird. I don't know how it works with adaptors for the Genesis controllers and stuff like that.  Good Apple II emulators usually had a user-input value for the centered position of a joystick when it was emulated with keys, as the centered range varied game to game (hold joystick in the upper left and press a button, etc.).

 

Some early games (Dino Eggs comes to mind) had support for a "gameport", which was an adapter made by Sirius Software that let you use an Atari Joystick.  Would love to see schematics on that.

 

Horizon V, Captain Goodnight, Airheart, Wings of Fury... Even good old Choplifter... And many more.  All these games took advantage of the analog joystick for fluid controls. You can't move the way it was intended with a d-pad.  I'd love to see these work on an adapted modern analog gamepad. I bet there's some tweeking and fiddling to be done tho game to game.

 

Is any of this what you talking about?

https://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/2021/08/digital-joysticks-and-apple-ii.html

https://lukazi.blogspot.com/2016/04/apple-ii-4play-joystick-card.html

https://lukazi.blogspot.com/2009/04/game-controller-atari-joysticks.html

Petscii snes info

https://lukazi.blogspot.com/2021/06/game-controller-snes-max-snes.html

 

High response apple II diy joy stick for anyone interested in making there own 4 way.

https://ameblo.jp/keroxiee1016/entry-12656735788.html

 

 

[MarkO]

On 2/5/2023 at 11:58 AM, potatohead said:

Yup.  PC joystick for sure.  The resistor values will be wrong.  PC = 150k pot, Apple uses 100k pot.

 

I'm pretty sure that the Apple and the IBM both had 150K Ohm Pots in a Resistance configuration, and the Tandy Color Computer uses a 100K Ohm in a Voltage Divider configuration..

 

I have Apple ][, IBM and Tandy JoySticks, so I should go and test them all...

 

MarkO

[potatohead]

I very well could be confusing the PC with Tandy.

 

I have some to measure...