BD Retro Mods Intellivision Arcade Stick

[sinistermoon]

I’m sadly seeing a lot that I dislike about this stick.  I’ll get more into it when I put out my video review, but there’s one main thing that bugs the heck out of me about this stick.  It’s too dang small.  It’s a hand killer as a result.  Your hands will always be resting on a corner or edge.  After an hour or two you’ll want to stop using it.  But you’ll keep using it because you just paid over $100 for it and you don’t want to just throw that money away lol.  This thing needs to be bigger, less crowded.  It also could use a stick that can be easily changed from 4 to 8 way.  A round gate for the joystick would feel way better than a square gate too.  Square gate 8-way sticks are for shoot’em ups and fighters mostly.  Also, the ball kept coming loose from lack of Loctite.  Those are my bigger complaints, but I have more.  The stick does get some things really right though, it has some redeemable qualities.  That small project box really sucks though!

[SiLic0ne t0aD]

I had a feeling someone would say that. Yeah, that layout definitely seems crowded. What's the dimensions of that as-is? Just curious.

 

You could always modify it and rehouse it in a bigger, better case.

Some kind of sloped Hammond case would work well. You can easily swap in another joystick as well.. They all mount up the same way, pretty much. The Seimitsu LS-32 or Sanwa JLF would be good candidates, among many others.

 

Hopefully someone shows a gut shot of one of these.. I'm really curious how he went about everything, electronically.

[sinistermoon]

15 hours ago, SiLic0ne t0aD said:

I had a feeling someone would say that. Yeah, that layout definitely seems crowded. What's the dimensions of that as-is? Just curious.

 

You could always modify it and rehouse it in a bigger, better case.

Some kind of sloped Hammond case would work well. You can easily swap in another joystick as well.. They all mount up the same way, pretty much. The Seimitsu LS-32 or Sanwa JLF would be good candidates, among many others.

 

Hopefully someone shows a gut shot of one of these.. I'm really curious how he went about everything, electronically.

I'm pretty sure it already has a Sanwa in it.  Which is a great stick, but I'd rather put a Mag-Stik Plus with ball-top handle in it.  That way you could switch from 4 to 8-way just by pulling up on the stick and twisting it 45 degrees.  As far as putting everything into another enclosure goes, I've thought about it, but it defeats the purpose of buying the stick for me.  Mostly because I have already mapped out all of the pins and everything in the controllers(with the help of a friend).  I already know what he did in there without even have taken it apart.  I could have just made the stick myself.  I still could.  But yeah, once I put out my video, it will have plenty of interior footage.  Even though I already know what he did, I still want to see how well he did it.  Plus I want to tighten the ball top on and switch the stick to 4-way.  Maybe switch a couple of the buttons around.  It will all still be in that little enclosure, but it is what it is.  I might transfer it some day, but I think at that point I'd rather just steal what he did with the keypad buttons then make the rest the way I think it should be done.  Plus RetroGameBoyz is coming out with an Intellivision stick that looks interesting. 

Stick dimensions: 8 1/2 (L) 2 1/2 (H) 5 1/2 (D)

I'm attaching a couple of files that should help you if you feel like wiring up your own.  I'm also including a pic of the Intellivision stick next to an 8bitdo stick that I put a Seimitsu in.

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by sinistermoon

[doubledown]

1 hour ago, sinistermoon said:

I'm pretty sure it already has a Sanwa in it.  

Based on the description he uses for his other joysticks "The joystick and buttons are Sanwa style (not official)", I would guess that it's not a Sanwa joystick.

 

1 hour ago, sinistermoon said:

Which is a great stick, but I'd rather put a Mag-Stik Plus with ball-top handle in it.  That way you could switch from 4 to 8-way just by pulling up on the stick and twisting it 45 degrees.

I don't know if you've ever actually used one of the Mag-Stick Plus joysticks previously or not, but if not, just note that they have a radically different feel, than any other joystick that I have ever used, (and I've used most out there, from vintage to modern).  The Mag-Stik Plus, is Ultimarc's modified version of an iL MAGNETIC JOYSTICK P/MI.  They modify it so that it can be adjusted from a 4-way to an 8-way from above the control panel vs. below, as is factory.  To do this they have a new shaft, with some additional mechanical bits at the bottom, and they shave down the directional restrictor's locking profile of the joystick base to allow for this.  This takes a joystick that already requires significantly more mounting depth than a Japanese stick, and makes it require even more depth (which is fine in arcade cabinets).  What they don't do is modify the feel of the joystick at all, and that is the biggest problem.  The magnetic centering force, and the force required to actuate the microswitches is incredibly strong (compared to literally every other joystick), and the throws are incredibly short (which for some games is good).  I've already been working with these sticks to see what I can do with them, and to make them useable, I've changed out the steel centering washer (which the magnetic force is attracted to), as well as the microswitches to make it a good stick, but it still has very short throws (again, good for some games).  Most of the reviews I've read about these sticks, usually specifically the Ultimarc variant (which they bought as they wanted to change 4-way to 8-way above the panel), are never great, or sometimes they say...maybe I'll get use to it eventually.  Just an FYI.  

 

I don't believe that there is any sort of electrical witchcraft internally in the BD Intellivision controller.  As it is simply a stock/unmodified 4-switch/8-way joystick, with no active electronics, which means it works with all 2-way and 4-way games, some 8-way games, and no 16-way games (as the angles would be the odd ball 67.5° angles).  Then if he's using single pole switches/buttons (for keypad buttons and side action buttons), he has the diodes installed as necessary, either installed onto a custom PCB, soldered to a prototype board, or simply hand wired to the wires/terminals.  

 

If RetroGameBoyz decides to sell his Intellivision controller, from the pictures I've seen, it will still be of a very similar overall size to the BD controller, wherein your hands are resting on/over the corners and/or edges of the enclosure as you use it.  He is supposed to be using active electronics in his, so you would pick up compatibility with all 8-way games (not just some), and 16-way games with only true 45° diagonals, if they are playable like this, with only 8 directions.  But unless he can print a larger enclosure, which he may not be able to 3D print that big, his will have you press 2 action buttons to get the 3rd, rather than having 3 separate/dedicated side action buttons.  

 

Just my 2 cents, if any of it helps.  

[sinistermoon]

12 hours ago, doubledown said:

Based on the description he uses for his other joysticks "The joystick and buttons are Sanwa style (not official)", I would guess that it's not a Sanwa joystick.

 

I don't know if you've ever actually used one of the Mag-Stick Plus joysticks previously or not, but if not, just note that they have a radically different feel, than any other joystick that I have ever used, (and I've used most out there, from vintage to modern).  The Mag-Stik Plus, is Ultimarc's modified version of an iL MAGNETIC JOYSTICK P/MI.  They modify it so that it can be adjusted from a 4-way to an 8-way from above the control panel vs. below, as is factory.  To do this they have a new shaft, with some additional mechanical bits at the bottom, and they shave down the directional restrictor's locking profile of the joystick base to allow for this.  This takes a joystick that already requires significantly more mounting depth than a Japanese stick, and makes it require even more depth (which is fine in arcade cabinets).  What they don't do is modify the feel of the joystick at all, and that is the biggest problem.  The magnetic centering force, and the force required to actuate the microswitches is incredibly strong (compared to literally every other joystick), and the throws are incredibly short (which for some games is good).  I've already been working with these sticks to see what I can do with them, and to make them useable, I've changed out the steel centering washer (which the magnetic force is attracted to), as well as the microswitches to make it a good stick, but it still has very short throws (again, good for some games).  Most of the reviews I've read about these sticks, usually specifically the Ultimarc variant (which they bought as they wanted to change 4-way to 8-way above the panel), are never great, or sometimes they say...maybe I'll get use to it eventually.  Just an FYI.  

 

I don't believe that there is any sort of electrical witchcraft internally in the BD Intellivision controller.  As it is simply a stock/unmodified 4-switch/8-way joystick, with no active electronics, which means it works with all 2-way and 4-way games, some 8-way games, and no 16-way games (as the angles would be the odd ball 67.5° angles).  Then if he's using single pole switches/buttons (for keypad buttons and side action buttons), he has the diodes installed as necessary, either installed onto a custom PCB, soldered to a prototype board, or simply hand wired to the wires/terminals.  

 

If RetroGameBoyz decides to sell his Intellivision controller, from the pictures I've seen, it will still be of a very similar overall size to the BD controller, wherein your hands are resting on/over the corners and/or edges of the enclosure as you use it.  He is supposed to be using active electronics in his, so you would pick up compatibility with all 8-way games (not just some), and 16-way games with only true 45° diagonals, if they are playable like this, with only 8 directions.  But unless he can print a larger enclosure, which he may not be able to 3D print that big, his will have you press 2 action buttons to get the 3rd, rather than having 3 separate/dedicated side action buttons.  

 

Just my 2 cents, if any of it helps.  

Yeah, I have a Magstick sitting around.  It might be too big for that enclosure though.  I actually like the feel of it and think it would be great as an Intellivision stick.  RetroGameBoyz first showed his Intellivision controller with a basic project box like this one.  But then he showed a prototype that said Intelli-Stick on it and it appeared to be a bit bigger.  So there is still hope that his stick will turn out good.  Not really into the whole having to press the two buttons to get the 3rd button function though.  But hey, anything beats this stick with its small cluttered project box.

Do you by chance have any arcade games?  I have a bunch in storage, but I have 7 of my favorites in my game room which is currently a mess.  I have a TON of arcade parts too.  Going to be selling off some of my inventory soon for Spring cleaning.

Either way, I'm still going to put that joystick in it into 4-way mode for now.  Even if it's a Sanwa clone, it certainly feels a lot like a Sanwa.  It will be kind of a let down if it is a clone though considering I considered that one of the stick's redeemable qualities.  People seem to think that just because a stick is 8-way that it can play 4-way and 2-way games no problem.  But that isn't the case at all.  Playing 4-way games with an 8-way stick is awful.  It's sloppy and you'll miss directions often.  If you've never tried it, try Pac-Man with an 8-way stick.  It's awful.

[doubledown]

7 hours ago, sinistermoon said:

Yeah, I have a Magstick sitting around.  It might be too big for that enclosure though.  I actually like the feel of it and think it would be great as an Intellivision stick.  RetroGameBoyz first showed his Intellivision controller with a basic project box like this one.  But then he showed a prototype that said Intelli-Stick on it and it appeared to be a bit bigger.  So there is still hope that his stick will turn out good.  Not really into the whole having to press the two buttons to get the 3rd button function though.  But hey, anything beats this stick with its small cluttered project box.

The first time I saw RGB's Intellivision stick, it was in one of his black 3d printed ColecoVision housings, and then the next revision I saw, it was then in a 3d printed beige/almond housing, with the battery compartment (if he showed a previous version in a purchased project box, I must have missed it):

 

 

His keypad is a bit smaller than BD's as he is using an actual keypad, vs. BD's 12 button array, so it gives a bit more room between the joystick/keypad/buttons, but as you can see from the above pics, its still very compact overall...with the joystick near the left edge, and the buttons near the right edge...more akin to a joystick controller, versus what some would consider an arcade stick controller.  RGB states that he also uses "clone" hardware as well.  I think that they have to, to get their controllers to their targeted price points.  I don't know exactly what they're using, or where they get them from, but I've seen Chinese clone joysticks for as little as $4 -$6 online, versus $25 or so for an authentic Sanwa/Seimitsu or similar.  That's a big difference in hardware cost, when they're selling their controllers for only $125.  

 

7 hours ago, sinistermoon said:

Do you by chance have any arcade games?  I have a bunch in storage, but I have 7 of my favorites in my game room which is currently a mess.  I have a TON of arcade parts too.  Going to be selling off some of my inventory soon for Spring cleaning.

 

I have a Sega Turbo upright.  I'm always looking for unique/vintage arcade controls...joysticks/buttons and the likes, for custom controllers, so if you've got this kind of hardware, when you do your spring cleaning, please let me know. 

 

7 hours ago, sinistermoon said:

Either way, I'm still going to put that joystick in it into 4-way mode for now.  Even if it's a Sanwa clone, it certainly feels a lot like a Sanwa.  It will be kind of a let down if it is a clone though considering I considered that one of the stick's redeemable qualities.  People seem to think that just because a stick is 8-way that it can play 4-way and 2-way games no problem.  But that isn't the case at all.  Playing 4-way games with an 8-way stick is awful.  It's sloppy and you'll miss directions often.  If you've never tried it, try Pac-Man with an 8-way stick.  It's awful.

 

I'm well aware, as I think most older vintage gamers are, that while you can use an 8-way joystick to play 4-way games...its usually a pretty horrible experience (depends on how the game was programmed).  But of course since you can't use a 4-way joystick to play 8-way games, this means that you would have to have 2 joysticks, one 4-way and one 8-way...and some simply don't have the money or space to have 2 joystick controllers. 

[sinistermoon]

Actually, most retro gamers are not aware that 4-way games are sloppy with an 8-way stick.  A great example would be the creator of this Intellivision arcade stick lol. Most joysticks have a way to switch between the two.  The one in this Intellivision stick is such a piece of crap I didn’t even bother.  It just needs thrown away.  Cheapest and crappiest joystick I’ve seen in a long while.  Even worse than the Xarcade sticks.  $120 for this stick is an awful price.

[wolfy62]

1 hour ago, sinistermoon said:

Actually, most retro gamers are not aware that 4-way games are sloppy with an 8-way stick.  A great example would be the creator of this Intellivision arcade stick lol. Most joysticks have a way to switch between the two.  The one in this Intellivision stick is such a piece of crap I didn’t even bother.  It just needs thrown away.  Cheapest and crappiest joystick I’ve seen in a long while.  Even worse than the Xarcade sticks.  $120 for this stick is an awful price.

Wow,sorry to hear all this.

I had my stick mailed to my friend to test out so I can't try it yet.

I certainly hope it's not as bad as you say.

[+The Intellivision Gamer]

1 minute ago, wolfy62 said:

Wow,sorry to hear all this.

I had my stick mailed to my friend to test out so I can't try it yet.

I certainly hope it's not as bad as you say.

I beat operation cloudfire with mine and had no issues. 

[sinistermoon]

8 hours ago, wolfy62 said:

Wow,sorry to hear all this.

I had my stick mailed to my friend to test out so I can't try it yet.

I certainly hope it's not as bad as you say.

I mean, it works in the sense that it is functional.  But that's the most positive thing I can say about it.

[sinistermoon]

8 hours ago, IntvCasey said:

I beat operation cloudfire with mine and had no issues. 

Now fire up some Ms.Pac-Man.  It will make you want to throw the thing across the room if you're a serious Pac-Man game player.  The stick works well with Anthropomorphic Force if you have that game.  It still hurts my hands though.  I guess I could always just wear my arcade gloves while I use it lol.

[doubledown]

5 hours ago, sinistermoon said:

Now fire up some Ms.Pac-Man.  It will make you want to throw the thing across the room if you're a serious Pac-Man game player.

If you're a serious Pac-Man player...then you would truly, only ever accept, this joystick:

 

 

😊

[+The Intellivision Gamer]

5 hours ago, sinistermoon said:

Now fire up some Ms.Pac-Man.  It will make you want to throw the thing across the room if you're a serious Pac-Man game player.  The stick works well with Anthropomorphic Force if you have that game.  It still hurts my hands though.  I guess I could always just wear my arcade gloves while I use it lol.

I have multiple controller setups for different games. I find it the best way. I have many controllers from him and love them all. 

[wolfy62]

2 hours ago, doubledown said:

If you're a serious Pac-Man player...then you would truly, only ever accept, this joystick:

 

 

😊

That can't work,there's no fire button!

Oh,...wait....

[doubledown]

5 minutes ago, wolfy62 said:

That can't work,there's no fire button!

Oh,...wait....

It might also need an enclosure too, as well as some wiring.  😁

 

But we can go out in the weeds a little bit, and talk about Super Pac-Man, Pac & Pal, and Pac-Mania all needing 1 button, Baby Pac-Man needing 2 buttons, and Pac-Land using only 3 buttons (no joystick)...but, in all North American, Bally/Midway published Pac-Man cabinets, the above joystick is "the" Pac-Man joystick, and is the only acceptable joystick for the true Pac-thusiast!  Just keeping the knowledge alive!

[SiLic0ne t0aD]

Saw your video @sinistermoon

That was quite eye opening. Pretty disappointing though, as I hoped and thought it would be much better than that. Good thing is the majority that stuff can be upgraded with high quality Japanese parts (joystick & action buttons), then it should be a halfway decent controller after that.

 

While it's looks okay on the outside, the inners were a whole other matter. That wiring is pretty atrocious. It's like he banged these out as quickly & cheaply as possible and didn't really take that much pride or care in his workmanship, at least in that department. 😕

 

With all the loose, janky quick-connects used, I foresee a lot of complaints from customers of intermittent and/or straight up non-functioning buttons. Hopefully he'll take some of that constructive criticism and create a better product in the future. We can only hope. 🤞

Edited March 18, 2023 by SiLic0ne t0aD

[wolfy62]

Just wanted to post that I love my stick and use it for many games.

It has been outstanding on Caverns of Mars most recently.

Thank you BD retro mods!!! 😊👍

[Sinjinhawke]

On 5/13/2023 at 7:33 PM, wolfy62 said:

It has been outstanding on Caverns of Mars most recently.

How did you get it all the way out to Mars?