BigPEmu - why does it not run well?

[crash]

Your system is more than fast enough to run BigPEmu. I'm not sure what could be interfering.

 

Be sure to go to information and update BigPEmu if you haven't already. I'll have to think about this some more.

[Class316]

4 hours ago, crash said:

Your system is more than fast enough to run BigPEmu. I'm not sure what could be interfering.

 

Be sure to go to information and update BigPEmu if you haven't already. I'll have to think about this some more.

 

I tried that but it said copy up to date. So basically most updated emu, updated windows, updated nvidia drivers, updated intel. 

 

The mind baffles. Only other emulator I can think of that disagreed with my machine and gave me problems was DEmul. I solved that problem by using Redream which works perfectly.

 

Maybe the author would like to talk to me for possible bug fixing? I emailed him a link.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Class316

[crash]

Hi,

 

Could you go into where it says Load Software and move to one of the games you are testing, and press CTRL-C, then CTRL-V to paste the results here with the name, such as:

 

Game.jag
Hash (FNV-1a): 5EE4B5D82B2344CD
Size: 0.97 MB

 

There are some bad game roms out there, so that needs to be ruled out. Also, your Blue Lightning CD image (is it a CDI?) sounds like it may be bad. Jaguar CDs are audio only, and the data is stored as audio, so it is very easy for anyone to dump a JaguarCD with errors anywhere in the disc. Some of the Blue Lightning discs lose their music/audio because of data errors.

 

Also, could you check and let us know what anti-virus you are running, and if there are more than one anti-virus installed? If you have something other than Microsoft Defender, maybe try turning it off for a minute and test a game.

 

I'll see if I can find a utility to that tracks the kind of problems you are having to see if there is a specific application or driver that is causing it. If more than one program on your system has a problem, that probably means there is something specific causing the problem that is not related to the performance of your computer, and should be possible to track down.

 

As an example, I was having audio skipping and controller problems in the emulator, and it turned out to be equipment on my home network sending frequent messages to every device on the network. I figured that out by testing the emulator without my network cable plugged in, then Rich was able to update the emulator to prevent it from being affected by the messages, but I'm sure it affects other things that I wasn't able to test as easily, so I never would have tracked it down.

 

Cheers

 

 

[Class316]

38 minutes ago, crash said:

Hi,

 

Could you go into where it says Load Software and move to one of the games you are testing, and press CTRL-C, then CTRL-V to paste the results here with the name, such as:

 

Game.jag
Hash (FNV-1a): 5EE4B5D82B2344CD
Size: 0.97 MB

 

There are some bad game roms out there, so that needs to be ruled out. Also, your Blue Lightning CD image (is it a CDI?) sounds like it may be bad. Jaguar CDs are audio only, and the data is stored as audio, so it is very easy for anyone to dump a JaguarCD with errors anywhere in the disc. Some of the Blue Lightning discs lose their music/audio because of data errors.

 

Also, could you check and let us know what anti-virus you are running, and if there are more than one anti-virus installed? If you have something other than Microsoft Defender, maybe try turning it off for a minute and test a game.

 

I'll see if I can find a utility to that tracks the kind of problems you are having to see if there is a specific application or driver that is causing it. If more than one program on your system has a problem, that probably means there is something specific causing the problem that is not related to the performance of your computer, and should be possible to track down.

 

As an example, I was having audio skipping and controller problems in the emulator, and it turned out to be equipment on my home network sending frequent messages to every device on the network. I figured that out by testing the emulator without my network cable plugged in, then Rich was able to update the emulator to prevent it from being affected by the messages, but I'm sure it affects other things that I wasn't able to test as easily, so I never would have tracked it down.

 

Cheers

 

 

I don't think it has anything to do with it being a Jag CD game cause every game I test has the same issues. I don't even think it's a sound issue. Sound is just the clearest effect of the issue. But yes Blue Lightning is .cdi. Here is the rom info:

 

Wolfenstein 3D (1994).zip
Hash (FNV-1a): F714BD1B17D9375D
Size: 2.00 MB

 

Defender 2000 (1996).zip
Hash (FNV-1a): 6B591BA55B0BCBD7
Size: 4.00 MB

 

Rayman (1995) (UBI Soft).zip
Hash (FNV-1a): 4F7E323A69447A71
Size: 4.00 MB

 

I have AVG and Comodo Firewall. I tried disabling both and running a game. Still same thing. 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by Class316

[Class316]

Also I did -logging for Wolfenstein and got this:

 

RefreshDevices: Full
Input device - type 3
    ID: 6F1D2B61-0000D5A0-000011CF-56940044 (03000000612B00001D6F)
    InstID: 11CFD5A06F1D2B61-000054534544C7BF
Input device - type 4
    ID: 028E045E-00000000-00000000-569400A4 (030000005E0400008E02)
    InstID: 11ED297E7FCC58B0-0000545345440180

 

 

I also tried -forcecompat Wolfenstein but that did nothing.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Class316

[crash]

Ok, those are the correct hash numbers for those games, so that is unlikely to be the problem. You might want to look for an BIN/CUE format archive of your Blue Lightning disc from redump for future reference. That should be one that was made accurately. I personally tried to make three CDI rips of the same disc with the same drive, and two came out differently than the original disc.

 

The next thing you could do is run BigPEmu in a window next to the Task Manager, and open the Performance tab to see if your GPU is maxed at all. When I run the MegaBezel shader with BigPEmu at a high resolution, you can see what it does to my GPU. I only have a GTX660 in this system, but any system on your computer being maxed could be a clue. Look at everything on the left side and see if any say 100%. I am still looking for something to monitor any possibly processes that could be causing a problem. You could also run with the Details tab and look to see if anything like "System Interrupts" is spiking to the top of the CPU column. You can also sort by Memory by clicking on the header for that column and see if something is eating all of your ram and forcing the computer to use virtual memory.

 

I've seen this kind of problem happen when any system is being overwhelmed, and it affects other systems or forced them to work harder to stay synchronized.

 

Cheers

Edited February 16, 2023 by crash

[UHATEIT]

I have it all setup on an Atari VCS with all stock internals and ram. Running off the Atari branded 128GB that uses Debian/Linux since that's how the dang USB drives come. I downloaded it and use WINE to open it automatically and it runs like a champ once the controller is connected. 

 

The only time I have seen it run slow and jerky is if I don't select the Desktop mode size, then it reverts to a full screen and is struggles like hell. But in selecting 1280x720 its all good! Only found a few roms that just don't load otherwise it runs everything. 

[Class316]

On 2/16/2023 at 5:05 AM, crash said:

Ok, those are the correct hash numbers for those games, so that is unlikely to be the problem. You might want to look for an BIN/CUE format archive of your Blue Lightning disc from redump for future reference. That should be one that was made accurately. I personally tried to make three CDI rips of the same disc with the same drive, and two came out differently than the original disc.

 

The next thing you could do is run BigPEmu in a window next to the Task Manager, and open the Performance tab to see if your GPU is maxed at all. When I run the MegaBezel shader with BigPEmu at a high resolution, you can see what it does to my GPU. I only have a GTX660 in this system, but any system on your computer being maxed could be a clue. Look at everything on the left side and see if any say 100%. I am still looking for something to monitor any possibly processes that could be causing a problem. You could also run with the Details tab and look to see if anything like "System Interrupts" is spiking to the top of the CPU column. You can also sort by Memory by clicking on the header for that column and see if something is eating all of your ram and forcing the computer to use virtual memory.

 

I've seen this kind of problem happen when any system is being overwhelmed, and it affects other systems or forced them to work harder to stay synchronized.

 

Cheers

 

Ok, some updates

 

Performance while running the emulator. All checks out. 

 

CPU usage. Only thing is "System Idle Process"

 

 

Sorted by memory

 

Now I found out something else not sure if it's relevant. Somehow my PS3 pad stopped working. Don't know how or why. But I had to reinstall ScpToolkit again and reinstall drivers again. I fixed the problem. While fixing the problem I noticed in the device and printers two "unspecified" devices. Don't know what those are or if they are relevant here. 

 

[42bs]

Did you try running without Edge and antivirus checker on?

[crash]

Hi,

 

System idle process, means how much of your CPU time is free. The higher this is, the less load there is on your CPU, so that is a good thing. Your memory is a little low. I will have to see if I can replicate your problems by taking some ram out of my computer. You might want to close some things like Microsoft Edge and Google Chrome since looks like they could be taking up to 1.5gb of your 8GB of ram, from the processes I can see in the task manager. I'll assume you didn't always have Chrome and Edge running when testing BigPEmu though. If you have a lot of tabs open that can mean a lot of extra processes and memory consumption.

 

The unspecified devices are:

Someone's printer

A USB-C port or controller (most likely)

 

I do want to test with SCP Toolkit again in case that might be causing a conflict. I had some problems before with something interrupting BigPEmu and I uninstalled SCP at that time. I will have to see if it causes any problems for me now.

 

It still seems like something on your system is being overloaded; I will look for some kind of diagnostic and see what the author has to say.

 

One thing that I would do in this situation is to perform a clean boot. Here are the instructions for that. It basically means that you turn off all of the startup programs and non-microsoft services, then reboot and see if the problem goes away. This is a good thing to know how to do any time there is a system malfunction. Before disabling the startup programs, you might want to sort by status and take a photo or screenshot of the enabled program so you can re-enabled them later. You may wish to do the same thing with the non-microsoft services that are enabled so you can go back to normal afterwards. Sometimes just one unnecessary startup program or service can cause performance or stability problems.

 

https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-us/000102564/how-to-perform-a-clean-boot-in-windows-10-to-troubleshoot-software-conflicts

 

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/how-to-perform-a-clean-boot-in-windows-da2f9573-6eec-00ad-2f8a-a97a1807f3dd

 

Thanks

[Atari Nut]

Disable AVG and try it.

[Jagosaurus]

On 2/15/2023 at 8:46 AM, 42bs said:

My Corei7 Notebook (win7) is at its limit in full screen mode.

Thanks for this comment! My newer Windows 11 machine is dedicated to work ... personal machines are Chromebook & old Windows 8.1 box ... I just assumed the software wouldn't work. Going to try now.

[Class316]

11 hours ago, crash said:

Hi,

 

System idle process, means how much of your CPU time is free. The higher this is, the less load there is on your CPU, so that is a good thing. Your memory is a little low. I will have to see if I can replicate your problems by taking some ram out of my computer. You might want to close some things like Microsoft Edge and Google Chrome since looks like they could be taking up to 1.5gb of your 8GB of ram, from the processes I can see in the task manager. I'll assume you didn't always have Chrome and Edge running when testing BigPEmu though. If you have a lot of tabs open that can mean a lot of extra processes and memory consumption.

 

The unspecified devices are:

Someone's printer

A USB-C port or controller (most likely)

 

I do want to test with SCP Toolkit again in case that might be causing a conflict. I had some problems before with something interrupting BigPEmu and I uninstalled SCP at that time. I will have to see if it causes any problems for me now.

 

It still seems like something on your system is being overloaded; I will look for some kind of diagnostic and see what the author has to say.

 

One thing that I would do in this situation is to perform a clean boot. Here are the instructions for that. It basically means that you turn off all of the startup programs and non-microsoft services, then reboot and see if the problem goes away. This is a good thing to know how to do any time there is a system malfunction. Before disabling the startup programs, you might want to sort by status and take a photo or screenshot of the enabled program so you can re-enabled them later. You may wish to do the same thing with the non-microsoft services that are enabled so you can go back to normal afterwards. Sometimes just one unnecessary startup program or service can cause performance or stability problems.

 

https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-us/000102564/how-to-perform-a-clean-boot-in-windows-10-to-troubleshoot-software-conflicts

 

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/how-to-perform-a-clean-boot-in-windows-da2f9573-6eec-00ad-2f8a-a97a1807f3dd

 

Thanks

 

5 hours ago, Atari Nut said:

Disable AVG and try it.

 

I haven't done all this yet, but regarding AVG, while I had already tried to disable it from my system tray and run the emulator see if that did anything (it didn't). I figured let me try disabling it from my start up and restarting before going through a clean boot and everything else. It wouldn't let me disable. So that means I gotta uninstall it completely to see if that's a factor? Or maybe I could try just renaming AvLaunch.exe so it doesn't boot it?

Edited February 18, 2023 by Class316

[Atari Nut]

46 minutes ago, Class316 said:

 

 

I haven't done all this yet, but regarding AVG, while I had already tried to disable it from my system tray and run the emulator see if that did anything (it didn't). I figured let me try disabling it from my start up and restarting before going through a clean boot and everything else. It wouldn't let me disable. So that means I gotta uninstall it completely to see if that's a factor? Or maybe I could try just renaming AvLaunch.exe so it doesn't boot it?

If you disabled it from the system tray and it didn't help, I wouldn't uninstall it.  You can try adding exceptions for BigP and the ROM folder.

[Class316]

Ok, update. I did the clean boot. Disabled most everything. Was tough to completely disable AVG an Comodo, but I did exit comodo upon restart of the clean boot. 

 

But still the same. All that did was mess up my joypad drivers again (had to reinstall again). Did nothing in terms of running the emulator. 

 

It's incredible. All the emulators I can run that are actually tough to run, and for systems more powerful than the Jag, all run so well, yet something that works perfect right out the box for everyone I can't run well. 

 

Unless anyone else has more ideas, I guess I'll have to stick to Phoenix for Jaguar roms (doubt I'm missing much in terms of Jag CD).

Edited February 20, 2023 by Class316

[Sporadic]

6 hours ago, Class316 said:

Ok, update. I did the clean boot. Disabled most everything. Was tough to completely disable AVG an Comodo, but I did exit comodo upon restart of the clean boot. 

 

But still the same. All that did was mess up my joypad drivers again (had to reinstall again). Did nothing in terms of running the emulator. 

 

It's incredible. All the emulators I can run that are actually tough to run, and for systems more powerful than the Jag, all run so well, yet something that works perfect right out the box for everyone I can't run well. 

 

Unless anyone else has more ideas, I guess I'll have to stick to Phoenix for Jaguar roms (doubt I'm missing much in terms of Jag CD).

You could go and log an actual bug report on the BigP website with the issue and all your system details.

Rich might then be able to investigate the issue.

[crash]

Hi,

 

I appreciate you trying these troubleshooting steps. I'm not sure what it could be about your system that disagrees with BigPEmu. I will try to bring this to Rich's attention when possible in case there is a diagnostic build that may be able to tell what part of the emulator or system is malfunctioning.

 

As far as Phoenix is concerned, it is not for me. Phoenix is not compatible with all Jaguar cartridges, including the games I am most interested in. It doesn't even run AvP correctly, as it has distracting texture corruption on doors at least, in spite of claims that Phoenix AvP compatibility is 100%; which leads me to believe that other 100% games are not as such. Anyone who had ever played AvP and tested it in Phoenix should have noticed this was a problem, which is not a good sign for emulation testing.

 

---

Here is Phoenix 

Here is what the door is supposed to look like

---

Phoenix also does not run Iron Soldier 1/2, or Hover Strike, and lists only partial compatibility with BattleSphere Gold, Val D'Isere Skiing & Snowboarding, White Men Can't Jump, Towers II, Phase Zero, Fight For Life, Brett Hull Hockey, etc. I didn't test every game in Phoenix, but some of the ones they list as compatible do not run at all.

 

Game preference is subjective, but I personally would not want to give up on the JaguarCD VLM, Battlemorph, Iron Soldier 2, Hover Strike Unconquered Lands, Blue Lightning, or World Tour Racing. As far as I can tell, Phoenix Jaguar development is also dead, so I don't expect the state of it's emulation to ever improve.

 

If the games you are concerned about are supported by Phoenix and run to your satisfaction, then I would say to enjoy it. For me, almost all of the Jaguar games that I care about don't work properly in Phoenix, so that is why I have been supporting Rich in developing BigPEmu.

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by crash

[Class316]

1 hour ago, crash said:

Hi,

 

I appreciate you trying these troubleshooting steps. I'm not sure what it could be about your system that disagrees with BigPEmu. I will try to bring this to Rich's attention when possible in case there is a diagnostic build that may be able to tell what part of the emulator or system is malfunctioning.

 

As far as Phoenix is concerned, it is not for me. Phoenix is not compatible with all Jaguar cartridges, including the games I am most interested in. It doesn't even run AvP correctly, as it has distracting texture corruption on doors at least, in spite of claims that Phoenix AvP compatibility is 100%; which leads me to believe that other 100% games are not as such. Anyone who had ever played AvP and tested it in Phoenix should have noticed this was a problem, which is not a good sign for emulation testing.

 

---

Here is Phoenix 

Here is what the door is supposed to look like

---

Phoenix also does not run Iron Soldier 1/2, or Hover Strike, and lists only partial compatibility with BattleSphere Gold, Val D'Isere Skiing & Snowboarding, White Men Can't Jump, Towers II, Phase Zero, Fight For Life, Brett Hull Hockey, etc. I didn't test every game in Phoenix, but some of the ones they list as compatible do not run at all.

 

Game preference is subjective, but I personally would not want to give up on the JaguarCD VLM, Battlemorph, Iron Soldier 2, Hover Strike Unconquered Lands, Blue Lightning, or World Tour Racing. As far as I can tell, Phoenix Jaguar development is also dead, so I don't expect the state of it's emulation to ever improve.

 

If the games you are concerned about are supported by Phoenix and run to your satisfaction, then I would say to enjoy it. For me, almost all of the Jaguar games that I care about don't work properly in Phoenix, so that is why I have been supporting Rich in developing BigPEmu.

 

Ok well please let me know what else I can do and what information I can provide. 

 

On a side note, I don't believe Phoenix ever claimed Jaguar emulation to be 100%. They claim 3DO emulation is 100%.

[Class316]

So it seems God doesn't want me to play Atari Jaguar. I was trying Phoenix and when I try to load up a rom it just crashed. Don't know how or why. It worked fine as recently as when I was troubleshooting BigPemu to compare how the same rom runs on each. But now I can't even load a rom. Essentially if I try to load any kind of file with Phoenix it crashed. 

 

I tried downloading again and trying a fresh unzip for Phoenix but same thing. I even tried both 32bit and 64bit downloads. 

 

At least for 3DO I have 4DO. But for Jaguar those are basically the 2 choices.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Class316

[crash]

Hi,

 

Are you having any problems at all running games from Steam or elsewhere at this time?

 

Thanks

[Class316]

1 hour ago, crash said:

Hi,

 

Are you having any problems at all running games from Steam or elsewhere at this time?

 

Thanks

 

I don't use steam. But no any game I do fire up I don't notice anything. And like I said I've tried many other emulators. 

[crash]

Have you tried a non-emulator game since Phoenix started malfunctioning? Some recent game that you might get on Epic or Steam? I am trying to figure out what may have changed.

 

If you don't have anything like that, maybe try this free game:

 

https://downloads.lsdwa.com/projects/fractalus/fractalus-1.0.0-win-x64.exe

 

https://www.lsdwa.com/projects/fractalus/

 

Also, what rom are you testing in Phoenix?

 

Thanks

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by crash

[Class316]

7 minutes ago, crash said:

Have you tried a non-emulator game since Phoenix started malfunctioning? Some recent game that you might get on Epic or Steam? I am trying to figure out what may have changed.

 

If you don't have anything like that, maybe try this free game:

 

https://downloads.lsdwa.com/projects/fractalus/fractalus-1.0.0-win-x64.exe

 

https://www.lsdwa.com/projects/fractalus/

 

Also, what rom are you testing in Phoenix?

 

Thanks

 

It's irrelevant what rom I try in phoenix. I can't choose anything. Even if I go to "file" and then "open recording" it crashes before I get a chance to choose anything. As baffled as you are as to what may have changed.

 

Will try this game.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Class316

[Class316]

5 minutes ago, Class316 said:

It's irrelevant what rom I try in phoenix. I can't choose anything. Even if I go to "file" and then "open recording" it crashes before I get a chance to choose anything. As baffled as you are as to what may have changed.

 

Will try this game.

Update, I installed the game and it ran fine. Sound is perfect, smooth, everything. 

[Class316]

YES! I finally figured out the solution to getting BigPEmu working properly! And sometimes we overlook the simplest solutions. 

 

Basically all I did was disable VSync! That solved the problem! It's running great now! Everything is smooth! 

 

I guess I can retire Phoenix for good now. Besides the fact that all of a sudden it crashes when trying to open a file, it has been superseded. For the longest time it was the only emulator that could properly play Jaguar and 3DO. But now BigPemu is clearly superior for Jaguar (and basically the world's only option for Jag CD), and 4DO seems to be on the par with Phoenix for 3DO. 

 

For other systems that Phoenix emulates, there has always been better options. For Colecovision I use ColEm. And for Sega 8bit there's Kega Fusion and Meka.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Class316