7800JAGFAN Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 I don't know why I'm posting this, but I have never seen it mentioned. I was playing PSX version of Doom and noticed on "Ultra Violence" that I could run through the game almost unstoppable with nothing but a shotgun. I usually play Jaguar Doom on "Nightmare" and have to conserve ammo at times and watch not to step into spring traps. Being in a room with 1 cacodemon or just a few imps can be fatal as where in the PSX version and can easily run carelessly into any trap and clear the room, for example 3rd level going to the secret exit to get to level 24. If I run in here on PSX, no worries I can mow the whole room down with a shotgun, in fact a chainsaw and quick strafing will do the trick. On Jaguar on Nightmare, this is almost certain death, and requires backing out of the room or a chaingun or well-placed rockets. This is not a PSX vs Jaguar thing, as the PSX runs faster, just a gameplay opinion. I feel the Jaguar offers the most challenging "fair" experience as the monsters don't respawn, also no circle-strafing as well, but the AI is way more aggressive. Never seem to hear anybody mention this. After playing Jaguar for years, going back to PSX Doom it looks great with the colored lighting, but almost feels empty with no challenge. I wonder why they omitted Nightmare mode? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynxJagLunatic Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 In my case the Jaguar version of Doom was the first Doom I ever played. Since then I’ve played a few others but still like the Jag version best. Maybe I’m biased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7800JAGFAN Posted February 18, 2023 Author Share Posted February 18, 2023 (edited) I am indeed an Atari "Fanboy", but I do think it plays the best if you want a "fair" challenge. It has better use of wall textures too, at a glance the look they same but there are differences, like the red "Hell" sky on level 24, and hydraulics/wires on the elevators of early levels. For some reason I just wanted to mention it. I always thought the PSX was the "best" console port, now I don't think so anymore. Edited February 18, 2023 by 7800JAGFAN spelling 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 Friend of mine played Doom on the PC and thought the Jaguar port ran a lot smoother. Only complaints given from PC Doom players I've heard: 1) Less levels. 2) Fewer enemies. 3) Lack of music. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirlynxalot Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 I think those are pretty significant complaints. 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7800JAGFAN Posted February 21, 2023 Author Share Posted February 21, 2023 Compared to the PC I claim "no contest", even with better color depth the original is still the best. But just playing on "vintage" consoles previous to Xbox, I really like the Jaguar version the more I play it. Plus, back then a 486 was needed or a fast 386 which was out of most kid's grasp- mine included. Try convincing your parents to get you a $500+ dollar PC, I didn't get a PC until 97' and that was a pentium 75 used. Going back though, Jaguar Doom I think was the best for its time. To bad it didn't get Doom II, I think with more time and if the money was there it would have been a pretty good port-For the time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mittens0407 Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 9 hours ago, 7800JAGFAN said: Compared to the PC I claim "no contest", even with better color depth the original is still the best. But just playing on "vintage" consoles previous to Xbox, I really like the Jaguar version the more I play it. Plus, back then a 486 was needed or a fast 386 which was out of most kid's grasp- mine included. Try convincing your parents to get you a $500+ dollar PC, I didn't get a PC until 97' and that was a pentium 75 used. Going back though, Jaguar Doom I think was the best for its time. To bad it didn't get Doom II, I think with more time and if the money was there it would have been a pretty good port-For the time. Good point. The thing about old PC games is that they are always presented in the best light these days. Running as well as they can via emulation or even getting source ports to newer hardware. Someone comparing the Jag and PC versions nowadays would most probably not think too highly of the Jaguar version, but at the time the Jaguar was a great value compared to the ideal desktop for playing Doom. Would say the same thing for 32x if it wasn't rushed so fast out the door. Thank god for D32x Resurrection! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 (edited) I think part of the magic of DOOM on PC back then was for the longest time there was nothing like it. Then all of a sudden it exploded onto the scene. Instantly we were adventuring and battling through a 3D environment in real-time. It was magic that my stodgy and stuffy professional 486 had now become a batter-than-the-arcade gaming setup. All of it was generic hardware, but now there was mysterious magic happening inside. PC version reigns supreme because it was modifiable with stuff as simple as new levels or as advanced as new sounds & graphics. Every mod I downloaded from the dial-up BBS'es extended the life of the game. Levels bought a new sense of adventure. Edited February 21, 2023 by Keatah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 The thing that sent Doom through the roof in my area was LAN/Modem Deathmatches. That was the bomb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7800JAGFAN Posted February 21, 2023 Author Share Posted February 21, 2023 34 minutes ago, Goochman said: The thing that sent Doom through the roof in my area was LAN/Modem Deathmatches. That was the bomb Before I got my first PC, I got 2 used Playstations from a local pawn shop and 2 copies of "Final Doom" from Wal-Mart and a link cable. This was still pretty expensive at the time, but with 2 playstations and 2 small 14" TV's this was a HUGE deal. Deathmatches this way was probably the most fun I had since StreetFighter 2, up until I got XBox and Halo- 4 players on one system/TV. But, to this day Doom is very special and I do remember it topping anything I had seen, including arcade games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapitanClassic Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 3 hours ago, 7800JAGFAN said: Before I got my first PC, I got 2 used Playstations from a local pawn shop and 2 copies of "Final Doom" from Wal-Mart and a link cable. This was still pretty expensive at the time, but with 2 playstations and 2 small 14" TV's this was a HUGE deal. Deathmatches this way was probably the most fun I had since StreetFighter 2, up until I got XBox and Halo- 4 players on one system/TV. But, to this day Doom is very special and I do remember it topping anything I had seen, including arcade games. Yeah, PSX link cable deathmatch was a blast, as was playing Armored Core via link cable. Halo was best with 4 TVs and 13-16 players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 On 2/18/2023 at 12:38 PM, 7800JAGFAN said: I wonder why they omitted Nightmare mode? Save space. Parental Guidance. Number of onscreen objects. Always never ever exceed or show up your original platform, the PC. Developer time.. Maybe more reasons.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari Nut Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 I prefer DOOM on the PS3/PS4. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jones007 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Has there ever been a patch to make Jaguar Doom run in high-res mode? Like the PC and 3DO version? Would be interesting how much this would affect the frame rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirlynxalot Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) On 2/21/2023 at 5:40 AM, Keatah said: I think part of the magic of DOOM on PC back then was for the longest time there was nothing like it. Then all of a sudden it exploded onto the scene. Instantly we were adventuring and battling through a 3D environment in real-time. It was magic that my stodgy and stuffy professional 486 had now become a batter-than-the-arcade gaming setup. All of it was generic hardware, but now there was mysterious magic happening inside. I literally went from this and stuff like it To this In just three years. Good times. Ibm pcs were pretty bad for gaming in the first years of the 90s. Yeah games existed but expect to have ega or cga limited colors on screen, no smooth scrolling and an ear splitting pc speaker soundtrack. It really did feel like magic when the apogee and id stuff started coming out, and then doom took things to an even higher level in terms of what anyone thought gaming on a 486 could be. Edited February 22, 2023 by sirlynxalot 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 I wonder what aspect of PC hardware enabled such a jump in gaming? I would (unexpectedly) go with memory/bus speed and size, Doom is essentially all software. It's world is created in RAM and the framebuffer, not relying on special graphics chip features beyond the basic VGA stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapitanClassic Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 @Keatah, that basic stuff was the requirement (before 1987, EGA/CGA made the IBM PC look much worse than Commodore/Atari PCs ). When Graphics cards became standardized, we saw a big explosion of 3D games on PC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 On 2/21/2023 at 5:40 AM, Keatah said: think part of the magic of DOOM on PC back then was for the longest time there was nothing like it. Then all of a sudden it exploded onto the scene. Instantly we were adventuring and battling through a 3D environment in real-time. It was magic that my stodgy and stuffy professional 486 had now become a batter-than-the-arcade gaming setup. All of it was generic hardware, but now there was mysterious magic happening inside. Yeah, Doom is the game that made me decide it was time to get a PC. If it had been on console at the time, that might have changed my decision I thought it was kind of cool that the Jaguar later got a port that was pretty decent, but lack of music is jarring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 28 minutes ago, Keatah said: I wonder what aspect of PC hardware enabled such a jump in gaming? I would (unexpectedly) go with memory/bus speed and size, Doom is essentially all software. It's world is created in RAM and the framebuffer, not relying on special graphics chip features beyond the basic VGA stuff. It was the point when PC gaming finally started to really benefit from all the advances made in the previous 5 or so years. The jump to VGA, the sound blasters, the 32-bit modes of the 386/486 processers, and the rise of local bus for faster graphics processing Before this era, so many PC games weren't much different from the Amiga or even ST ports, they were still supporting legacy devices like Ad-lib (without PCM samples), EGA and even CGA. That held PC gaming back for awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7800JAGFAN Posted February 22, 2023 Author Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) I do remember seeing Wolfenstein 3D before Doom on my friends 386. It was shocking, he was just playing one day and I was like "what are you doing", to which he replied "shooting Nazi's". When I saw and played it, I was pretty stunned. I asked what it cost for his PC and I only know he said it was a 386 and about $800 at the time, this was 1993-ish. So, I erased it off the "I can get this" list in my mind just like Neo Geo a few years before. Later I saw Doom running on the same PC, and the chainsaw really blew my mind. Evil Dead gameplay? Yes. But until I started working as a laborer, I didn't get any of this stuff at home, another friend rented Doom for SNES a few years later, and even though Steve, our PC owning friend made fun of it, we still really enjoyed that too. If I would have saw Jaguar Doom back christmas season 93', I would have considered it the second coming. I didn't get my "Doom" experience until 1996 on the PSX, and then raided the pawns shops for a second used PSX. Anyway, a good version of "Doom" and a Neo Geo MVS have been two of the biggest "must get" things in my gaming life, even to this day. Edited February 22, 2023 by 7800JAGFAN spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 15 minutes ago, CapitanClassic said: @Keatah, that basic stuff was the requirement (before 1987, EGA/CGA made the IBM PC look much worse than Commodore/Atari PCs ). When Graphics cards became standardized, we saw a big explosion of 3D games on PC. When Hercules/CGA/EGA were the standards I was still looking at PCs from afar. Huddled down with Apple II and Amiga, but increasingly looking for something more capable while building my savings. Something that could handle science stuff. I didn't even recognize or appreciate the arrival of VGA. When I spec'd out the 486 I was about to buy, I ended up with a mainstream VGA/SVGA/XGA chipset and that was that. It was just kinda-like there you know. It was what I could afford. In other words I didn't fully understand or know how to utilize its featureset. I was simply gung-ho on getting millions of colors onscreen at once. But I never guessed that good gaming could happen. Everything was about practicality and number crunching, serious work, with a few games of SimCity and FlightSimulator thrown in for diversion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 32 minutes ago, zzip said: Yeah, Doom is the game that made me decide it was time to get a PC. If it had been on console at the time, that might have changed my decision Doom had affirmed that PC gaming was really going to be a thing going forward. The first time I saw it or played it was the day after I bought it home. So I got the full wow effect of being blown away. I already had all the necessary hardware in place, SB16, Speakers, VGA, 8MB RAM, 486. So yes it really bashed me upside the head but good! There was no watching or waiting. Boom! Complete opposite of vicariously playing Flight Simulator through magazines and whenever I could get a chance at the store or in the old man's den. Doom was the first game for which I got an "Official Strategy Guide". (Aside from the early "how to beat the arcades" books from Consumer's Guide.) It was like the "missing manual". Reading the OSG was more like a round table conversation about things to do and how to do them. Though Doom's 10-pager was pretty comprehensive and to the point. 32 minutes ago, zzip said: I thought it was kind of cool that the Jaguar later got a port that was pretty decent, but lack of music is jarring No music? That's 30% the ambiance right there! 24 minutes ago, zzip said: It was the point when PC gaming finally started to really benefit from all the advances made in the previous 5 or so years. The jump to VGA, the sound blasters, the 32-bit modes of the 386/486 processers, and the rise of local bus for faster graphics processing My machine didn't have local bus. Had I waited another 6-months I would have had it. Had I waited a year I would have had a Pentium 60/66.. Gotta stop and buy something now. But yes, a certain critical mass had to be reached. 24 minutes ago, zzip said: Before this era, so many PC games weren't much different from the Amiga or even ST ports, they were still supporting legacy devices like Ad-lib (without PCM samples), EGA and even CGA. That held PC gaming back for awhile. It was great to be there at the beginning. And It's fantastic now to see all the new capabilities. 5GHz+ CPUs, 64GB RAM standard (or near standard), gumstick-sized nVME drives with 7,000MB/s transfer speeds, Tflop graphics cards.. But I don't like the styles of new PC games these past couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Editorb Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 I think the music is obnoxious cheesefest and would have turned it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 17 minutes ago, Keatah said: My machine didn't have local bus. Had I waited another 6-months I would have had it. Had I waited a year I would have had a Pentium 60/66.. Gotta stop and buy something now. But yes, a certain critical mass had to be reached. I had a friend that helped me through the maze of PC hardware, he made sure I got VLB on my 486 32-bit @ 33mhz vs ISA 16-bit @ 8.133mhz, that's up to 8x more graphics data throughput and should have a big impact on gaming 18 minutes ago, Editorb said: I think the music is obnoxious cheesefest and would have turned it off. Looking back it is a bit over the top. A game like that probably should have moodier, creepier music. But at the time it was new and exciting and you wanted the music on to put your machine through its paces 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 4 minutes ago, zzip said: I had a friend that helped me through the maze of PC hardware, he made sure I got VLB on my 486 32-bit @ 33mhz vs ISA 16-bit @ 8.133mhz, that's up to 8x more graphics data throughput and should have a big impact on gaming That's a good thing. I was rather happy with what I had. The ISA bus.. There was just so much new software coming out I didn't have time to be chasing new hardware. And I was still getting the lay of the land and building it out. More memory + its proprietary card, 2 more HDDs, 14.4 modem, Snappy, MIDI, SB16, Zip, CD-ROM, 2nd parallel port, scanner, printer. And moar! All that on top of learning Windows 3.1 and 95, and DOS 5 and 6.22. Not to mention DoubleSpace and DDOs (dynamic drive overlays to break the BIOS limitations. So I didn't have much time left for consoles or the real arcades. My next hardware would be a PII-266 with PCI/AGP sometime in summer 1997. Shortly after that I was into the overclocking and upgrading frenzy. Throughout all those ensuing years Doom (and it's immediate successors) remained a gaming staple. 4 minutes ago, zzip said: Looking back it is a bit over the top. A game like that probably should have moodier, creepier music. But at the time it was new and exciting and you wanted the music on to put your machine through its paces I felt it was just right, if colorful and campy by today's standards. I preferred Doom in OPL/3 FM. But Doom 2 seemed to be better with MIDI. YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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