Eagle Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Karl G said: Pixel values are either 00, 01, 10, or 11 with 00 being background color or transparent, right? this is pallet value, higest 4 bits are pixelsa 0000 00 00 - byte PPpp C1 C2 P and p - are pixels on/off C1 pallet for pixels P C2 pallet for pixels small p Edited June 14, 2023 by Eagle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender_2600 Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Karl G said: Cool - but I don't understand how you can get 4-color sprites? Pixel values are either 00, 01, 10, or 11 with 00 being background color or transparent, right? You can consider each pair of pixels monochromatic (+ the background color) as in 320A mode with the difference that with 320C mode for each pair of pixels you can choose a color among the 4 colors of the palette. Edited June 14, 2023 by Defender_2600 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender_2600 Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 On 3/20/2023 at 11:30 PM, Eagle said: Long story short, avoid 320 modes You can use them for text but if you try to overlap 320A mode then you will be surprised. 1 hour ago, Eagle said: Another very quick conversion Reveal hidden contents Sorry for colours, I was guessing them randomgfxfromNes.a78 32.13 kB · 0 downloads 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 On 3/20/2023 at 10:30 PM, Eagle said: But I'm not an expert, we had one on the forum but he abandoned us You missed that one BTW 320 modes are not a problem for coders, only for pixel artists. I never asked anyone to draw anything in 320C, because I will have to put him on 24/7 suicide watch 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender_2600 Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 (edited) On 6/14/2023 at 8:07 PM, Eagle said: BTW 320 modes are not a problem for coders, only for pixel artists. I never asked anyone to draw anything in 320C, because I will have to put him on 24/7 suicide watch Lol.. Seriously, it depends on the type of graphics you need to make, if we have to convert 16x16 sprites (square pixels with 3 colors) scaling to 12x16 or worse to 8x12 in 160 modes and the goal is really to get the most rigor in aspect ratio, detail , alignment and animation, then I assure you that it is easier for me to use the 320C mode. But I repeat, if the objective is to obtain the maximum rigor in the result, which does not fear a comparison with the original graphics, including a comparison of the animation via GIF. Edited June 16, 2023 by Defender_2600 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 Version with composite blending from MisTer 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrunchyTC Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 (edited) That looks quite good. Like an NES game😁 Edited June 14, 2023 by KrunchyTC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 To make this work (and scroll) in 320c we need make tiles much wider than 16px, otherwise we will run out of dma cycles. 20 tiles 16x16 = ((4*3)+8)*20= 400cycles! Any empty tiles will give us some dma back. Some tiles will have to be 32,48,64 pixels wide or even more. You can draw them in RAM (I believe that Rikki was using something like this) example: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrunchyTC Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 (edited) I thought the 7800 did bitmapped backgrounds? or maybe thats just sprites? Can you have parallax scrolling in 320C? Or any other 320 mode? Does extra cart RAM help any of this? Edited June 14, 2023 by KrunchyTC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 Everything is sprite on 7800 Here, you can say it's parallax This is two playfields, but good luck to work with them. First 4 colours and second colours. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrunchyTC Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 (edited) I see. Still a lovely looking scene. I'm interested what can be done with 320 modes 😁 Edited June 14, 2023 by KrunchyTC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender_2600 Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 (edited) On 4/5/2023 at 4:55 AM, Synthpopalooza said: Has anything useful ever come out of 320D? I tried an interlace experiment with it once, where you swap fonts while simultaneously swapping the color registers on the alternate columns, to get a vertically interlaced display. The idea was to get 320B color resolution but at the lower DMA cost that 320D provides (same as 320A). It didn't work out like I wanted exactly, though. with 320B + 320D: the 320D mode has the advantage of being 1bpp (as 320A) and it can be used (without restrictions regarding pixel placement) for momochromatic sprites / tiles, *only* with color C2 (PO C2 and P4 C2). Also, when you don't have two useful colors in the single 320B palette, you can use the 320D mode for overlapping two sprites and save cycles. 320D 1bpp can also be used for the star field for which you can use the colors C2 and C3, so for the stars you have 4 colors available from two palettes (320D and 320B share the same PO and P4 palettes). It can also be used to draw explosions, enemy gunfire, etc. Edited June 16, 2023 by Defender_2600 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender_2600 Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 On 6/14/2023 at 6:03 PM, Eagle said: Another very quick conversion Reveal hidden contents Sorry for colours, I was guessing them randomgfxfromNes.a78 32.13 kB · 3 downloads For those who want to better understand the magic, looking pixel by pixel.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 (edited) I would really like to see this game on 7800 320c_gfx_cannonfodder.a78 Edited June 17, 2023 by Eagle 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrunchyTC Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 That looks excellent! And yeah, very good game! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 (edited) 9 colour 320C mode - artifacts from MisTer artifacts.a78 Edited June 18, 2023 by Eagle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+saxmeister Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 On 6/17/2023 at 10:30 AM, Eagle said: I would really like to see this game on 7800 320c_gfx_cannonfodder.a78 32.13 kB · 3 downloads Cannon Fodder would be great on the 7800. We would definitely need to mouse option for this game. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrunchyTC Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 (edited) On 6/17/2023 at 10:30 AM, Eagle said: I would really like to see this game on 7800 320c_gfx_cannonfodder.a78 32.13 kB · 5 downloads This looks great on an actual 7800 (through RF no less). Edited June 19, 2023 by KrunchyTC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthpopalooza Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 On 6/14/2023 at 3:03 PM, KrunchyTC said: That looks quite good. Like an NES game😁 Better, in fact. NES uses 256 pixel, 7800, 320. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrunchyTC Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 True! 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender_2600 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 (edited) 7800 and NES are different machines, each with their own strengths, however it would be interesting to reverse the requests and finally see a port from stock 7800 to stock NES, something with lots of big colorful sprites, 4bpp graphics with 12 colors per sprites / tile, tiles with no size restrictions, etc... Edited June 24, 2023 by Defender_2600 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) On 6/22/2023 at 4:55 AM, Defender_2600 said: ... however it would be interesting to reverse the requests and finally see a port from stock 7800 to stock NES, something with lots of big colorful sprites, 4bpp graphics with 12 colors per sprites / tile, tiles with no size restrictions, etc... Even though it's not big colorful sprites, I did that with Frenzy (7800 -> NES), albeit using 320A mode... At least on the NES I was able to have different colors for the different wall types... Edited June 23, 2023 by PacManPlus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrunchyTC Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 hour ago, PacManPlus said: Even though it's not big colorful sprites, I did that with Frenzy (7800 -> NES), albeit using 320A mode... At least on the NES I was able to have different colors for the different wall types... Wonder why that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender_2600 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 2 hours ago, PacManPlus said: Even though it's not big colorful sprites, I did that with Frenzy (7800 -> NES), albeit using 320A mode... At least on the NES I was able to have different colors for the different wall types... Hey Bob, amazing work with Frenzy, for both of your versions. About the colors for the different walls types in the 7800 version, in hindsight, maybe it was possible to use "sprites as tiles", in order to have 8 colors available for the walls (in 320A mode). Or use 320A for the sprites and 320C for the walls. Anyway, what I meant is that it can be misleading to judge the potential of a system simply by looking at the game ports, which happens too frequently with the 7800 (very versatile hardware by the way), in fact a "perfect port" of your gorgeous Bentley Bear's Crystal Quest (with 4bpp sprites and lots of background color) would be impossible on the NES or imagine trying to do that on the Pac-Man original arcade hardware... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+saxmeister Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 On 3/21/2023 at 12:06 PM, Eagle said: I know. 320 modes are not a problem for a coder but for gfx guys I've really found this to be true. I straddle both worlds and I have been struggling with using GIMP to make 320C graphics. It might really be simpler to programmatically define the graphics in an array rather than using an image editor. I remember doing this on graph paper for the Commodore VIC-20 and 64 back in the day. The biggest thing for me is trying to adapt the graphics into something that the 7800 will use in 160B, 320B, and especially 320C modes and getting the palettes applied properly. I have read through the spreadsheet that has so thoughtfully been pulled together and shared with everyone, and I see exactly how the structure works. But, getting the graphics in GIMP translated into that has been the catch for me. (Not my graphic, but a reminder of how I used to do things) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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