BobAtari Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 It seems a 5200 port was released 20 years ago, but has now vanished from the Earth. Is it available anywhere? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/349935-whatever-happened-to-klax/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DamonicFury Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 No, that one plus the other Mean Hamster games haven't been available for sale for years. (other than places like Ebay) There is a very Klax-like game recently released for the 5200, however... http://www.atarisales.com/ici5200.html Haven't played it yet myself, but thought you might want to know. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/349935-whatever-happened-to-klax/#findComment-5234060 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB5200 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 14 minutes ago, DamonicFury said: There is a very Klax-like game recently released for the 5200, however... http://www.atarisales.com/ici5200.html Haven't played it yet myself, but thought you might want to know. I actually got mine just the other day, It's an ok game with several game play options. graphics are pretty simple but it does play pretty good. the only real complaint I have is the label though, it is not on glossy paper, it is just a regular sticky back paper, so you really can't even touch it without getting it dirty or even if it does get dirty you can't clean it. if anybody know's the best way to make a new label I could have made the right way, would be helpful. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/349935-whatever-happened-to-klax/#findComment-5234078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobAtari Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share Posted March 31, 2023 34 minutes ago, DamonicFury said: No, that one plus the other Mean Hamster games haven't been available for sale for years. (other than places like Ebay) No ROMs, then? Always seems a shame when a game's been basically dead for decades. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/349935-whatever-happened-to-klax/#findComment-5234079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB5200 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 (edited) 28 minutes ago, BobAtari said: No ROMs, then? Always seems a shame when a game's been basically dead for decades. No, there are not any downloadable Roms, actually for either one of these games. if you wan't Klax you will just have to keep an eye out and maybe someone will sell one, they were only released on a limited basis in cartridge form back in the day. if you wan't the other similar game click on the link DamonicFury put in and you can buy that one. Edited March 31, 2023 by RB5200 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/349935-whatever-happened-to-klax/#findComment-5234094 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobAtari Posted April 1, 2023 Author Share Posted April 1, 2023 13 hours ago, RB5200 said: No, there are not any downloadable Roms, actually for either one of these games. Hmm, I've already been DMed by somebody offering to sell me the ROM for Klax. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/349935-whatever-happened-to-klax/#findComment-5234396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 2 hours ago, BobAtari said: Hmm, I've already been DMed by somebody offering to sell me the ROM for Klax. Unless they're Mean Hamster (and I don't think they've been around for a long time) then that's illegal. You can't sell roms for other peoples games unless you have their permission. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/349935-whatever-happened-to-klax/#findComment-5234429 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGHMW Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 2 hours ago, Tempest said: Unless they're Mean Hamster (and I don't think they've been around for a long time) then that's illegal. You can't sell roms for other peoples games unless you have their permission. I believe that Mean Hamster has been defunct for quite a few years now so technically they are considered "abandonware" but even though I myself have all of the ROMs I won't venture into any "insider" deals when it comes to the distribution of them unless we find out that they truly are out of business. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/349935-whatever-happened-to-klax/#findComment-5234493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 1 hour ago, BIGHMW said: I believe that Mean Hamster has been defunct for quite a few years now so technically they are considered "abandonware" That's not how that works. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/349935-whatever-happened-to-klax/#findComment-5234527 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 It is no longer the nineties and there is no time for Klax 1 7 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/349935-whatever-happened-to-klax/#findComment-5234542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGHMW Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Tempest said: That's not how that works. Then how does it work? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/349935-whatever-happened-to-klax/#findComment-5234586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 39 minutes ago, BIGHMW said: Then how does it work? Unless a copyright has been abandoned then it's not abandonware. Most copyrights have been picked up by other companies, even if they're not actively doing anything with the IP. Calling old software abandonware is just something people do to ease their consciences. In reality most of it is still owned by someone. When it comes to homebrews I don't think it's ever fair to say something is abandonware unless the author has specifically made it public domain. 3 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/349935-whatever-happened-to-klax/#findComment-5234618 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobAtari Posted April 1, 2023 Author Share Posted April 1, 2023 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Tempest said: Unless a copyright has been abandoned then it's not abandonware. Most copyrights have been picked up by other companies, even if they're not actively doing anything with the IP. Calling old software abandonware is just something people do to ease their consciences. In reality most of it is still owned by someone. When it comes to homebrews I don't think it's ever fair to say something is abandonware unless the author has specifically made it public domain. "Abandonware" is not a legal term, but its usage is distinct from "public domain". It means something is NOT technically public domain but realistically no reasonable person is going to mind. If someone steals something from your trashcan it's still legally stealing, but since you put it in the trash most reasonable people wouldn't consider it a crime. They'd consider it, at worst, salvage. And that's how most people regard "abandonware", a term that itself is often misused to mean "old" but is extremely appropriate in this case. I don't know if Mean Hamster were ever legally licenced to produce Klax - most homebrewers aren't - but if they ever were then they're not doing so any more, nobody else has bought the rights and is doing so, and the game will have been produced in such small numbers that it's in real danger of simply being lost to existence entirely. That serves nobody. I'm sure this argument has been had on this forum 1000 times and nobody's going to have their mind changed now, but I've always found it terribly hypocritical when sites/people that trample all over the laws of copyright in all manner of other ways suddenly get prissy about one of them. Edited April 1, 2023 by BobAtari Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/349935-whatever-happened-to-klax/#findComment-5234637 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 31 minutes ago, BobAtari said: I don't know if Mean Hamster were ever legally licenced to produce Klax - most homebrewers aren't This is the main question in my mind: did they ever even have any legal right to sell Klax? It's pretty hard to enforce rights you don't possess. If they did, then it's another question. 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/349935-whatever-happened-to-klax/#findComment-5234649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 1 hour ago, MrFish said: This is the main question in my mind: did they ever even have any legal right to sell Klax? It's pretty hard to enforce rights you don't possess. If they did, then it's another question. Probably not, but it's still someone's homebrew code. I can't endorse the piracy of homebrews. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/349935-whatever-happened-to-klax/#findComment-5234692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobAtari Posted April 1, 2023 Author Share Posted April 1, 2023 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Tempest said: Probably not, but it's still someone's homebrew code. I can't endorse the piracy of homebrews. Piracy isn't actually piracy if there's no legal route to obtaining something, and never likely to be - because nobody is being deprived of anything. And in passing, I'm not sure the morality of someone making money from an unlicensed port of someone else's property is in any way superior to someone making NO money by distributing a ROM that's been commercially dead for decades. Sure, they worked to code it but it wasn't theirs to work on at all, and if you're obsessive about rights-holders' permission then you have to apply that to Atari too or be a total hypocrite. And as I've found through this thread, all that ends up being achieved is that other people DO make money out of selling the ROM, because the obsessive (but selective) "respect" for copyright creates a rarity market to exploit. So instead of being freely shared for the benefit of all, hardly anyone gets to enjoy all that hard work Mean Hamster did 20 years ago, and someone who did no work at all gets to profit from it. Maybe Americans like that because they think sharing is Communism, but it makes zero sense to me. And just by the by, I was a games developer in the 1990s, with one of the most successful developers in the UK. I never gave a toss about "piracy" then and I still don't, because I know from first-hand experience that it does NOT kill the games industry. It's been "killing" gaming for about 40 years now, and you know what? Gaming doesn't seem to be dead. Edited April 1, 2023 by BobAtari 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/349935-whatever-happened-to-klax/#findComment-5234711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 Is there a video of Klax for the 5200 anywhere? I don't think I've ever even seen it in action before. TBH, it doesn't even look that good (from the screenshots). I'm pretty sure a better version could be made. I'm not really a big fan of the game; but I started experimenting with some graphics for the 8-bit computers, using the 7800 version graphics as a starting point. The 7800 graphics aren't that great either; but, compared to that Mean Hamster version... 3 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/349935-whatever-happened-to-klax/#findComment-5234713 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobAtari Posted April 1, 2023 Author Share Posted April 1, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, MrFish said: Is there a video of Klax for the 5200 anywhere? I don't think I've ever even seen it in action before. TBH, it doesn't even look that good (from the screenshots). I'm pretty sure a better version could be made. Nope, everyone's done a great job of making sure almost nobody ever gets to see it. I only became curious about it because as a part-time games historian I started putting together a piece about Klax's quite-interesting backstory (there were two completely different official releases on the Game Boy and two completely different official releases on the Megadrive - a few games have competing official releases on one format, but to have it on two platforms for one game is just about unique). I'm usually able to dig up most things when I'm writing about a game series - I even managed to get hold of the amazing Tate-mode port of Donkey Kong for the NES - but the self-appointed Gatekeepers Of ROMs have managed to make 5200 Klax all but invisible to posterity. Well done, I guess. Edited April 1, 2023 by BobAtari 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/349935-whatever-happened-to-klax/#findComment-5234717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted April 2, 2023 Share Posted April 2, 2023 I partly understand the position, because supporting/respecting homebrewers is incentive for them to continue producing; and we don't want to give the impression that it's ok to share active commercial titles. But, in this case, the question becomes: at what point does software that's no longer being sold lose its special status compared with the thousands of other (formerly) commercial software titles that we see posted on the forums every day? (especially if they never owned the rights to sell the title in the first place) IDK... but from the looks of it, we aren't missing out on much with Mean Hamsters titles. I think they did that 5200 Gauntlet from a few years back too. It didn't look too bad in still shots, but gameplay didn't endear it much to fans of the original game. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/349935-whatever-happened-to-klax/#findComment-5234750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted April 2, 2023 Share Posted April 2, 2023 1 hour ago, MrFish said: Is there a video of Klax for the 5200 anywhere? I don't think I've ever even seen it in action before. TBH, it doesn't even look that good (from the screenshots). I'm pretty sure a better version could be made. I'm not really a big fan of the game; but I started experimenting with some graphics for the 8-bit computers, using the 7800 version graphics as a starting point. The 7800 graphics aren't that great either; but, compared to that Mean Hamster version... The real question is, when will you port this 8-bit code over to the 5200? 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/349935-whatever-happened-to-klax/#findComment-5234759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Cafeman Posted April 2, 2023 Share Posted April 2, 2023 Mean Hamster's Klax (from 2003 I think?) plays like coin-op Klax, but has a more flat presentation, the blocks coming down the screen rather than appearing in a 3D-ish distance approaching on the a conveyer belt. It has speech clips (muffled and quiet, but still there) which is pretty cool. It uses dithered pixels to accomplish different colors, it works. It has similar or perhaps identical challenges as the arcade version, like now you must do X diagonal Klax's , etc. I've played a bunch of the MH 5200 games, I think Klax was the one I put the most time into, bitd. I thought the AA store sold them at one time? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/349935-whatever-happened-to-klax/#findComment-5234763 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted April 2, 2023 Share Posted April 2, 2023 5 minutes ago, Stephen said: The real question is, when will you port this 8-bit code over to the 5200? Done deal! (notice the title bar) 3 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/349935-whatever-happened-to-klax/#findComment-5234767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted April 2, 2023 Share Posted April 2, 2023 6 minutes ago, Cafeman said: Mean Hamster's Klax (from 2003 I think?) plays like coin-op Klax, but has a more flat presentation, the blocks coming down the screen rather than appearing in a 3D-ish distance approaching on the a conveyer belt. It has speech clips (muffled and quiet, but still there) which is pretty cool. It uses dithered pixels to accomplish different colors, it works. It has similar or perhaps identical challenges as the arcade version, like now you must do X diagonal Klax's , etc. I've played a bunch of the MH 5200 games, I think Klax was the one I put the most time into, bitd. I thought the AA store sold them at one time? It doesn't sound too bad -- at least from a gameplay standpoint. I'm still a bit puzzled why nobody ever posted a video of it. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/349935-whatever-happened-to-klax/#findComment-5234770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Cafeman Posted April 2, 2023 Share Posted April 2, 2023 5 minutes ago, MrFish said: I'm still a bit puzzled why nobody ever posted a video of it. There are hardly any 5200 homebrew videos posted, period. Youtube started around 2005 or so, and MH 5200 games were a few years before that (and evidently it seems there weren't a lot of them made and sold?). Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/349935-whatever-happened-to-klax/#findComment-5234776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted April 2, 2023 Share Posted April 2, 2023 14 minutes ago, Cafeman said: There are hardly any 5200 homebrew videos posted, period. Youtube started around 2005 or so, and MH 5200 games were a few years before that (and evidently it seems there weren't a lot of them made and sold?). Well, @BIGHMW claims to have the ROM; so, maybe he can post a review on his channel. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/349935-whatever-happened-to-klax/#findComment-5234784 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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