Tempest Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 A recent conversation about a Super Pac-Man repro cart got me wondering about the history behind all the prototype versions of this game. I know development was done on the 5200, but that the code was programmed so that it would auto-detect the type of system it was running on (5200 or 800) and configure itself appropriately. This little fact makes it harder to pinpoint the different versions of the game. Normally a game that was developed on either the 5200 or 800 wouldn't be ported to the other system until all development was done (why port WIP code?), but since Super Pac-Man can auto-configure itself this means a WIP 5200 version would run on the 800 if burned onto a 8-bit eprom board. I know of two different confirmed 5200 protos and one confirmed 8-bit proto. There's also the final version of the game the @Dutchman2000 found. I don't know whether to count this as a 5200 proto or an 8-bit proto. I would normally say it should be a 5200 proto since that was the original target system, but since it was found on a disk (I believe it was anyway) that would point towards it being an 8-bit proto. I'd guess that Landon added the bug fix and final touches to the 8-bit version since development for the 5200 must have been cancelled by that point (my 8-bit proto is dated 6/14) but since it auto configures itself it will also happily run on a 5200. I have a rom for it labeled 5200 Final that seems to test differently. That doesn't make sense... Does anyone want to do a deeper dive into these roms and see if we can piece together the development history? For example, I always thought that the scrolling instructions and easter egg were added at the same time as the bonus timer fix, but the 6/14/84 (8-bit) version has the scrolling instructions and easter egg (I think, I can't trigger it with the emulator) but the bonus timer is still time based instead of being based off of how much of the screen you cleared. I'm also attaching a rom for the 800 that came from a reproduction cart (I believe B&C sold these years ago). It appears to be the earlier 3/15/84 (5200) version but on an 8-bit cart. Not sure if this is from an undiscovered 800 prototype or B&C just converted the 5200 version to run on the 800 (although the code should do that automatically). 5200 versions ------------------ 1/26/84 3/15/84 ?/??/84 (final version) 8-bit versions ----------------- 6/14/84 ?/??/84 (final version) Super Pac-Man (6-14-84).bin Super Pac-Man (800 Repro).bin Super Pac Man Final (400-800).bin Super Pac Man Final (5200).bin Super Pac Man (1-26-84).bin Super Pac Man (3-15-84).bin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchman2000 Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 The source code was found on a 9-track VAX backup tape. The final source had triggers in it based on what system you wanted to compile it for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted April 15 Author Share Posted April 15 34 minutes ago, Dutchman2000 said: The source code was found on a 9-track VAX backup tape. The final source had triggers in it based on what system you wanted to compile it for. Ah ok that makes sense. So I was misunderstanding how that works. The code can be compiled for either system but once compiled it only works on one system or the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted April 15 Author Share Posted April 15 Has anyone been able to trigger the easter egg in either the final version or the 6-14 (800) version? According to this page you just have to reset the game after clearing a level (when it's flashing) but when I tried it in various emulators it wasn't working. http://donhodges.com/super_pacman_easter_egg.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 it's a 50-50 shot, you might just want to edit the memory location he identified. did you try pressing option and or select while it was flashing? or hold option/select during flash and reset... still getting virus alert on some of those downloads is it forum related? same thing happen on the 2007 posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted April 15 Author Share Posted April 15 Ok I spent some time this morning and I think I figured it all out. The original console as I said was the 5200. That explains why the earliest version only appears as a 5200 prototype (1/26/84). This version supposedly contains a bug that makes it so sometimes all the doors don't open once all the keys are eaten. I've never seen this myself however, so if someone could verify this I'd appreciate it. It may also have some other minor differences I missed, I really need to look it over again. The 3/15 version is what we thought was the final version for many years. It supposedly fixed the key bug but it has the timer bug where the bonus timer is based on a certain period of time rather than how much of the board you've cleared. It's also missing the scrolling instructions and the easter egg. I believe this version is what B&C used to make the repro for the Atari 800. It's possible that there was a prototype for the 400/800 of this version, but I've never seen it and since it wasn't the final code it would be odd to do so. However since the code could be made to compile for either system it's possible. The final versions for both the 800 and 5200 were compiled from code from a Vax backup tape and they were compiled with the easter egg option enabled. I was told that the easter egg code had to be enabled during the compile and it defaulted to off. I can get the code to work in both of these versions. IReset doesn't seem to work, only option or select (# or *). The 6/14 version for the 8-bit is really the final version but without the easter egg code enabled. The 6/14 date must be when the ROM was burned because Landon said he finished the game up in Spring so that would mean late March or early April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted April 15 Author Share Posted April 15 41 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said: still getting virus alert on some of those downloads is it forum related? same thing happen on the 2007 posting. No idea. Al would be the person to ask about it. My files are virus free, I can guarantee that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supergun Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 Not completely topic related, but I’m curious if any of the available photos of any of the original proto cartridges for Super Pac Man ever had any stickers or markings or writing with the product numbers? I’ve just never understood how such a great and high profile game, which would surely have sold quite well, was never issued a proper CX5200 or RX800 part number, let alone never saw a release. And in the same breath, I assume no mock up boxes with preliminary art work ever surfaced either? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted April 17 Author Share Posted April 17 13 hours ago, Supergun said: Not completely topic related, but I’m curious if any of the available photos of any of the original proto cartridges for Super Pac Man ever had any stickers or markings or writing with the product numbers? I’ve just never understood how such a great and high profile game, which would surely have sold quite well, was never issued a proper CX5200 or RX800 part number, let alone never saw a release. And in the same breath, I assume no mock up boxes with preliminary art work ever surfaced either? No, but I've never seen a model number on an Atari proto cart before. I've also never seen it listed on any 5200 internal part list before either (including one from Aug of 84). For what ever reason it was never assigned a part number. The funny thing is that it doesn't even show up on the list of finished but unreleased games in that August memo but 5200 Animated Puzzle does (only the 800 version of that has turned up). I don't know if I ever shared that memo, I'll add it to this post. release_status8-2-84.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchman2000 Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 (edited) Here are the available ways to assemble Super Pac Man: 800 / 5200 sssssss uuuu uu ppppppppp eeeeeeeee rrrrrrrrr sssssssssss uuuu uu pppp ppp eeee rrrr rrr ssss ss uuuu uu pppp pp eeee rrrr rr sssss uuuu uu pppp pp eeee rrrr rr ssssssss uuuu uu pppp ppp eeeeeee rrrr rrr sssss uuuu uu ppppppppp eeee rrrrrrrrr sss uuuu uu pppp eeee rrrr rr sss ssss uuuuu uuu pppp eeee rrrr rr ssssssssss uuuuuuuuuu pppp eeee rrrr rr ssssss uuuuuuuu pppp eeeeeeeee rrrr rr pppppppppppppp a ccccccccccccc pppppppppppppppp aaa ccccccccccccccccccc pppppppppppppppp aaaaa ccccccccccccccccccccccc pppppppppppppppp aaaaaaa ccccccccccccccccccccccc ppppppppp pppp aaaaaaaaa ccccccccccccccccccccc pppppppppppppppp aaaaaaaaaaa ccccccccccccccccc oooooooooo pppppppppppppp aaaaaaaaaaaaa cccccccccccccc oooooooooo pppppppppp aaaaaa aaaaaa ccccccccccccccccc oooooooooo pppppppppp aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ccccccccccccccccccccc pppppppppp aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ccccccccccccccccccccccc pppppppppp aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ccccccccccccccccccccccc pppppppppp aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ccccccccccccccccccc pppppppppp aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ccccccccccccc m m a n nnnnnnnn mm mm aaa nn nnnnnnnn mmm mmm aaaaa nnn nnnnnnnn mmmm mmmm aaaaaaa nnnn nnnnnnnn mmmmm mmmmm aaaaaaaaa nnnnn nnnnnnnn mmmmmm mmmmmm aaaaaaaaaaa nnnnnn nnnnnnnn mmmmmmm mmmmmmm aaaaaaaaaaaaa nnnnnnn nnnnnnnn mmmmmmmm mmmmmmmm aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa nnnnnnnn nnnnnnnn mmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmm aaaaaaa aaaaaaa nnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnn mmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmm aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa nnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnn mmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmm aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa nnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnn mmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmm aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa nnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnn mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn Designed by: Bally/Midway Programmed by: Landon M. Dyer Artwork by: Gary Johnson Sounds by: Brad Fuller Inspiration by: Talking Heads, Pink Floyd, J. S. Bach, Dire Straits Special thanks to: Digital Equipment Corporation, Volkswagen of America, Kevin Sacher and the rest of the Leper Colony, Claudia Rudolph, Anthony Jones, C compilers everywhere. Copyright 1984 ATARI. Unauthorized reproduction, adaptation, distribution, performance or display of this computer program or the associated audio- visual work is strictly prohibited. ;------ assembly switches ;rom = 1 ; uncomment for ROMable code ;pam = 2 ; uncomment for 5200 version ;testing= 4 ; uncomment for test code ;fullasm= 8 ; uncomment for full assembly [obsolete] ;pro = 10 ; uncomment to enable ROM copy-protection ;easteg = 1 ; uncomment to enable easter egg Edited April 17 by Dutchman2000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted April 17 Author Share Posted April 17 Neat! So what does the Test Code do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchman2000 Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 9 minutes ago, Tempest said: Neat! So what does the Test Code do? Never tried it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted April 17 Author Share Posted April 17 1 hour ago, Dutchman2000 said: Never tried it. Can you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchman2000 Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 11 minutes ago, Tempest said: Can you? After looking at the source, it doesn't do anything. At one point it may have been used for testing purposes but all code relating to it is not in this final source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted April 17 Author Share Posted April 17 Thanks for checking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supergun Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 Wow, that 1984 Atari memo is really great to see. Thank you for posting that. Interesting how none of the games listed on it, no matter how complete they were, are assigned part numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted April 17 Author Share Posted April 17 5 minutes ago, Supergun said: Wow, that 1984 Atari memo is really great to see. Thank you for posting that. Interesting how none of the games listed on it, no matter how complete they were, are assigned part numbers. I don't understand how the part number assignment thing worked. Sometimes titles were assigned part numbers before any work was even started (and some never had work started at all), while other times completed games weren't ever assigned a number (Xari Arena for example). I would assume that it was up to marketing to assign the part numbers, but that's just a guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kr0tki Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 (edited) On 4/14/2023 at 8:45 PM, Tempest said: For example, I always thought that the scrolling instructions and easter egg were added at the same time as the bonus timer fix, but the 6/14/84 (8-bit) version has the scrolling instructions and easter egg (I think, I can't trigger it with the emulator) but the bonus timer is still time based instead of being based off of how much of the screen you cleared. Actually, in 6-14-84 the bonus items appear after eating a specified amount of fruits and power pellets, same as the final version. But I guess you have figured this out already. On 4/15/2023 at 6:30 PM, Tempest said: The 3/15 version is what we thought was the final version for many years. It supposedly fixed the key bug but it has the timer bug where the bonus timer is based on a certain period of time rather than how much of the board you've cleared. It's also missing the scrolling instructions and the easter egg. I see that the same is stated on your review page for 3-15-84, but again, that's not what I see when playing the 1st level. Only 1-26-84 exhibits the timer bug. In 3-15-84 the bonus items appear as in the final version. Another notable difference between 1-26-84 and the later versions is ghost colours - in 1-26-84 one of the ghosts is violet but it was changed to pink in later versions. On 4/15/2023 at 6:30 PM, Tempest said: I believe this version is what B&C used to make the repro for the Atari 800. It's possible that there was a prototype for the 400/800 of this version, but I've never seen it and since it wasn't the final code it would be odd to do so. Your "Super Pac-Man (800 Repro).bin" image exhibits the violet ghost colour, the bonus timer bug, and the lack of scrolling instructions. So it is closer to the 1-26-84 5200 version, not 3-15-84. I reviewed all the EXE and disk versions of 8-bit Super Pac-Man available at AtariOnline.pl. All of them are almost 100% identical to your "Super Pac-Man (800 Repro).bin" image (with a few bytes modified here and there to, remove copy protection and allow launching the game from disk). This means that all pirate copies we had back in the day, and your repro ROM too, are based on the same version of Super Pac-Man. I don't think this version was converted from the 5200 by pirates: other 5200 conversions from back in the day did not have "#" and "*" on their title screens replaced with "Option" and "Select", and even if the prates did so, what would be the chance that they would put "Option" and "Select" on the screen at exactly the same location as in the final version? So my assumption is that an 8-bit version of Super Pac-Man was leaked from Atari which was similar to the 1-26-84 5200 proto. On 4/15/2023 at 6:30 PM, Tempest said: The final versions for both the 800 and 5200 were compiled from code from a Vax backup tape and they were compiled with the easter egg option enabled. Dutchman2000 said that he also disabled the copy protection when compiling. And surely enough, I've tested that the final 8-bit version is the only one that does not try to modify the ROM area during gameplay. On 4/15/2023 at 6:30 PM, Tempest said: The 6/14 version for the 8-bit is really the final version but without the easter egg code enabled. As noted above, the other difference is enabled copy protection. But there is yet another difference between 6-14-84 and the final version. When running 6-14-84 on PAL, the bottom row on the title screen remains stationary - it only moves when run in NTSC. In the final ROM it scrolls in both TV systems. This means that 6-14-84 is not simply the final version with disabled Easter egg, so there might be other differences between 6-14-84 and the final ROM. There is yet another version of 8-bit Super Pac-Man that is omitted from your analysis: the Best Electronics release, dumped by FULS and provided here. This version has the pink ghost, the correct bonus timer, and the scrolling instructions that work both in NTSC and PAL - all the same as the final version; but it also has enabled copy protection and disabled Easter egg. It would be way easier to determine all the differences between all these versions if the source code was available. @Dutchman2000 Is it possible that you would release the sources? Edited May 10 by Kr0tki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted May 10 Author Share Posted May 10 Wow! Thank you for the detailed analysis. I'll update my page tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted May 10 Author Share Posted May 10 15 hours ago, Kr0tki said: As noted above, the other difference is enabled copy protection. But there is yet another difference between 6-14-84 and the final version. When running 6-14-84 on PAL, the bottom row on the title screen remains stationary - it only moves when run in NTSC. In the final ROM it scrolls in both TV systems. This means that 6-14-84 is not simply the final version with disabled Easter egg, so there might be other differences between 6-14-84 and the final ROM. Interesting. I checked to see what happened if you set the final 5200 version to PAL (which doesn't exist) and the instructions scroll, but they're buggy. There's some glitching as they scroll. I guess this means that 6-14 version could detect PAL/NTSC. I wonder if it was optimized for PAL then or not? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kr0tki Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 I've noticed it in the 8-bit final version too, that the scroll is glitchy on PAL. I guess the non-scrolling in 6-14 was not caused by intentional TV system detection, but a result of some timing bug that Mr. Dyer managed to fix (though not completely) later on. There seem to be no PAL adjustments in the game. No colour adjustments, no screen geometry fixes, everything plays 20% slower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kr0tki Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 (edited) One more curiosity: The reason that the scrolling instructions on the title screen use the standard character set is easy to explain: To save ROM space, the custom character set contains only the characters that are used on the title screen and nothing more. The scrolling instructions use almost all letters of the alphabet, but there is no space left for additional custom characters, so I think that Mr. Dyer simply used the standard character set because he had no other choice. ... which prompted me to wonder, if Dyer used this opportunity to save even more space - he could omit the * and # characters in the 8-bit version, since they are used in the 5200 version only; and conversely, he could omit the letter N from the 5200 version because it is used only in the word OPTION in the 8-bit version. So I checked that, ... and I'm confused. The 8-bit "B&C" prototype for the 8-bits indeed omits the * and # characters from the custom font, but all other versions, 5200 and 8-bit, contain the same character set that includes both the 5200-exclusive and 8-bit-exclusive characters. (The character set in all versions is located at the very beginning of the ROM.). Why did Dyer optimize the character set in the first 8-bit version but abandoned the idea in later versions? 🤷♂️ Edited May 12 by Kr0tki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted May 12 Author Share Posted May 12 6 hours ago, Kr0tki said: One more curiosity: The reason that the scrolling instructions on the title screen use the standard character set is easy to explain: To save ROM space, the custom character set contains only the characters that are used on the title screen and nothing more. The scrolling instructions use almost all letters of the alphabet, but there is no space left for additional custom characters, so I think that Mr. Dyer simply used the standard character set because he had no other choice. ... which prompted me to wonder, if Dyer used this opportunity to save even more space - he could omit the * and # characters in the 8-bit version, since they are used in the 5200 version only; and conversely, he could omit the letter N from the 5200 version because it is used only in the word OPTION in the 8-bit version. So I checked that, ... and I'm confused. The 8-bit "B&C" prototype for the 8-bits indeed omits the * and # characters from the custom font, but all other versions, 5200 and 8-bit, contain the same character set that includes both the 5200-exclusive and 8-bit-exclusive characters. (The character set in all versions is located at the very beginning of the ROM.). Why did Dyer optimize the character set in the first 8-bit version but abandoned the idea in later versions? 🤷♂️ Interesting. If you read Landon's 'making of' blog when it comes to Super Pac-Man (I think his site is down now though), he mentions not being particularly enthusiastic about the game and not really wanting to add an easter egg to it in the first place (management told him to). So maybe he just didn't feel like trying to optimize the space and gave up on it? @landondyer I don't know if Landon still checks this site out, but maybe he can chime in on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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