I’m 22, how many of us here this age grew up on “equipment of old?”

[Gavynnnnn]

I had an IT for a stepfather, so I grew up with things like a giant CRT, VHS, and Windows XP despite being born after the turn of the century. I also dove into retro at the age of 14 and found I prefer games made before 2004 are my preference. I also know I’m probably on the younger end of the forum here however.

[Cynicaster]

Well, I'm more than twice your age, but good to see some younger folks taking an interest in the older stuff.  

 

Although, even 2004 seems almost like "modern" gaming to me, haha.  I was just playing some Gradius V on my PS2 last night and was thinking it seemed so new compared to the shoot-em-ups I usually play. 

 

Can I ask, how far back do you go with the retro, and what is it about the older stuff that works for your preferences? I can tell you flat out, for me the primary draw of retro games is that many of them are well suited to short play sessions and don't require dozens of hours to "finish."  The walk-up-and-play factor is nice, too.  

 

 

 

  

 

 

[Gavynnnnn]

19 minutes ago, Cynicaster said:

Well, I'm more than twice your age, but good to see some younger folks taking an interest in the older stuff.  

 

Although, even 2004 seems almost like "modern" gaming to me, haha.  I was just playing some Gradius V on my PS2 last night and was thinking it seemed so new compared to the shoot-em-ups I usually play. 

 

Can I ask, how far back do you go with the retro, and what is it about the older stuff that works for your preferences? I can tell you flat out, for me the primary draw of retro games is that many of them are well suited to short play sessions and don't require dozens of hours to "finish."  The walk-up-and-play factor is nice, too.  

 

 

 

  

 

 

Of course! I’ll play anything from arcade cabinets to early home consoles. Things I’ve never played but on a bucket list are things like:

 

- pretty much any Atari, never got lucky there

 

- Commodore 64

I currently own a lot, but this is the fastest way I can show you what I currently own.

 

[bubufubu]

@Gavynnnnn  PM sent.

[Keatah]

8 hours ago, Cynicaster said:

I can tell you flat out, for me the primary draw of retro games is that many of them are well suited to short play sessions and don't require dozens of hours to "finish."  The walk-up-and-play factor is nice, too. 

In addition to that I find there are layers within many vintage pre-1990's games. Take Enduro for example, which I've been playing a lot of recently.

 

[Gavynnnnn]

5 minutes ago, Keatah said:

In addition to that I find there are layers within many vintage pre-1990's games. Take Enduro for example, which I've been playing a lot of recently.

 

I can respect that. I appreciate modern gaming too because it’s a good time sink when I have no responsibilities, but retro gaming is like a love letter to an industry gasping for breath, trying to do anything but collapse under the weight of economic failure. They had to try so hard, and try they did! It shows. Nowadays it’s the exact opposite.

[Keatah]

I liked how back in the day the programmers were generally well educated in the sciences. Larry Miller has a PhD in physics, made Spider Fighter and Enduro for the 2600. Also did Epoch and Hadron for the Apple II. 2 favorites on another favorite machine. These days it seems they scrape talent from the bottom of the barrel.

[Reaperman]

When I was a kid, pa instilled in me the love of Allis-Chalmers tractors and Stan Getz. We all wear the scars of 'Dad hobby' exposure. 🤣

The way folks talk in here sometimes--about their kids playing Atari and not even knowing what an Xbox is--it comes off almost a bit Amish.

 

Good news for you, though!  We all die--and most of us much sooner than you. 👍 I'm guessing when about a quarter of us are gone, the prices of retro games are going to collapse as surviving family members rush to donate/liquidate boxes of old estate junk, saturating the market. Cheap games again, and by then you'll probably be about the height of your earning potential.

 

Don't believe me?  Look at how cheap View Master reels are, or hundred-year-old Allis-Chalmers tractors for that matter.  You can get about four of them for the price of a used Volkswagen these days.

[Steven Pendleton]

I am still relatively young compared to most of the other users here, and you're probably closer to me than most of the rest of the website, so here is the best advice I can give you: play Toaplan, play Sega, learn Japanese so you can play the Saturn (I did it and it was totally worth it), play more Toaplan, and play even more Toaplan once you are done playing Toaplan.

[Gavynnnnn]

1 hour ago, Steven Pendleton said:

I am still relatively young compared to most of the other users here, and you're probably closer to me than most of the rest of the website, so here is the best advice I can give you: play Toaplan, play Sega, learn Japanese so you can play the Saturn (I did it and it was totally worth it), play more Toaplan, and play even more Toaplan once you are done playing Toaplan.

I actually already speak Japanese and have for 8 years lol

[Gavynnnnn]

1 hour ago, Reaperman said:

When I was a kid, pa instilled in me the love of Allis-Chalmers tractors and Stan Getz. We all wear the scars of 'Dad hobby' exposure. 🤣

The way folks talk in here sometimes--about their kids playing Atari and not even knowing what an Xbox is--it comes off almost a bit Amish.

 

Good news for you, though!  We all die--and most of us much sooner than you. 👍 I'm guessing when about a quarter of us are gone, the prices of retro games are going to collapse as surviving family members rush to donate/liquidate boxes of old estate junk, saturating the market. Cheap games again, and by then you'll probably be about the height of your earning potential.

 

Don't believe me?  Look at how cheap View Master reels are, or hundred-year-old Allis-Chalmers tractors for that matter.  You can get about four of them for the price of a used Volkswagen these days.

See, I was around that stuff just because it was what he still had. He *never* once insisted I use anything old over anything new, nor does he even carry that mindset. I had an Xbox One and a Nintendo 64 during the same period of my life. It just so happens I ended up preferring retro on my own lol.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Gavynnnnn

[Steven Pendleton]

19 minutes ago, Gavynnnnn said:

I actually already speak Japanese and have for 8 years lol

Okay, good. People will say it's hard, but it really isn't. It just takes time to learn kanji and people are lazy, so they give up and say that Japanese is hard. Even kanji is actually quite easy (but time-consuming), and I found German to be considerably more difficult. Of course, if your Japanese is decent enough to play games you already know all of this, which means セガサターン、シロ！ and all of that.

 

Also be sure to check out the PC Engine, which I forgot to mention before, and no, the SuperGrafx is absolutely not worth it unless you REALLY want to play 1941 Counter Attack, which is both super awesome and fairly expensive to the point where I think the arcade PCB might actually be cheaper than the SuperGrafx version.

[Gavynnnnn]

9 minutes ago, Steven Pendleton said:

Okay, good. People will say it's hard, but it really isn't. It just takes time to learn kanji and people are lazy, so they give up and say that Japanese is hard. Even kanji is actually quite easy (but time-consuming), and I found German to be considerably more difficult. Of course, if your Japanese is decent enough to play games you already know all of this, which means セガサターン、シロ！ and all of that.

 

Also be sure to check out the PC Engine, which I forgot to mention before, and no, the SuperGrafx is absolutely not worth it unless you REALLY want to play 1941 Counter Attack, which is both super awesome and fairly expensive to the point where I think the arcade PCB might actually be cheaper than the SuperGrafx version.

はいはい、先生！まだまだ上手じゃないでも十分ですよ…ね？

[Steven Pendleton]

4 minutes ago, Gavynnnnn said:

はいはい、先生！まだまだ上手じゃないでも十分ですよ…ね？

まぁ、人やゲームによって難しくて全然出来ないゲームもあると思うぞ。俺の場合は科学の言葉とかはちょっと無理っす。

 

But yeah, in general I can play pretty much most things. I know a few Japanese game devs and I can mostly talk to them well enough, so I guess it works.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Steven Pendleton

[Gavynnnnn]

53 minutes ago, Steven Pendleton said:

まぁ、人やゲームによって難しくて全然出来ないゲームもあると思うぞ。俺の場合は科学の言葉とかはちょっと無理っす。

 

But yeah, in general I can play pretty much most things. I know a few Japanese game devs and I can mostly talk to them well enough, so I guess it works.

俺もだよ。日本語は上手じゃないごめんね。アメリカに誰も日本語を本当に話しいから8年で使うないた。でもわかります。

 

I can play simple games, I just have never had the time to devote to kanji that way. But you’re right, the only difficulty is that it’s time-consuming.

[Steven Pendleton]

17 minutes ago, Gavynnnnn said:

俺もだよ。日本語は上手じゃないごめんね。アメリカに誰も日本語を本当に話しいから8年で使うないた。でもわかります。

 

I can play simple games, I just have never had the time to devote to kanji that way. But you’re right, the only difficulty is that it’s time-consuming.

ここで文法が良くないところが多くて沢山練習した方が良いと思う。

 

Yeah, I can play visual novels and stuff entirely in Japanese, with no Google Translate or DeepL or anything else like that, but I practice a lot. A LOT. At first my brain felt like it was going to explode after playing games in Japanese for maybe 20~30 minutes, but now I can go for 8 hours straight or more if I really wanted to.

 

Playing Saturn games or something like that in Japanese will be difficult unless your Japanese is probably around mid~upper elementary school native level. Of course, media in pretty much any language is like that, so English or German or whatever is going to be the same.

 

There is a foreign language section of the forum specifically for non-English-language discussion. Not many people use it and there isn't a Japanese thread as far as I know, but I'll go make one, I guess.

[Gavynnnnn]

1 hour ago, Steven Pendleton said:

ここで文法が良くないところが多くて沢山練習した方が良いと思う。

 

Yeah, I can play visual novels and stuff entirely in Japanese, with no Google Translate or DeepL or anything else like that, but I practice a lot. A LOT. At first my brain felt like it was going to explode after playing games in Japanese for maybe 20~30 minutes, but now I can go for 8 hours straight or more if I really wanted to.

 

Playing Saturn games or something like that in Japanese will be difficult unless your Japanese is probably around mid~upper elementary school native level. Of course, media in pretty much any language is like that, so English or German or whatever is going to be the same.

 

There is a foreign language section of the forum specifically for non-English-language discussion. Not many people use it and there isn't a Japanese thread as far as I know, but I'll go make one, I guess.

You’re not wrong, but the fun of Japanese is that you can speak about any way and they’ll understand you. In formal situations I wouldn’t do well, but casually like here I do fine. Like I said, I can never practice because there’s nowhere to go for me.

[Wayler]

3 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

People will say it's hard, but it really isn't. It just takes time to learn kanji and people are lazy, so they give up and say that Japanese is hard. Even kanji is actually quite easy (but time-consuming), and I found German to be considerably more difficult.

So japanese is basically a language isolate, that has very little common to other language families. And on top of that there's the written language that has multiple different scripts and symbols that have nothing in common to our arabic alphabet. Even if there is a logic and structure to all this and I'm sure there is, I wouldn't call someone lazy for not learning it. 

 

If japanese is such a piece of cake, I don't understand why you would struggle with german. As an Indo-European language, it follows the same grammar as english. So you only need to learn the vocabulary. 

[Steven Pendleton]

1 hour ago, Gavynnnnn said:

You’re not wrong, but the fun of Japanese is that you can speak about any way and they’ll understand you. In formal situations I wouldn’t do well, but casually like here I do fine. Like I said, I can never practice because there’s nowhere to go for me.

Japanese people will always say your Japanese is really good if you can manage to do as little as stumble through putting four or five words together. Best way to do it is to go to school and learn there because your teacher will demolish you if you make even the smallest of mistakes.

 

13 minutes ago, Wayler said:

So japanese is basically a language isolate, that has very little common to other language families. And on top of that there's the written language that has multiple different scripts and symbols that have nothing in common to our arabic alphabet. Even if there is a logic and structure to all this and I'm sure there is, I wouldn't call someone lazy for not learning it. 

I have always felt that people want instant results, and they don't get that with Japanese since it takes forever to learn kanji. Learning it is not hard, but it does take quite some time. Decades, perhaps, and even Japanese people constantly learn new kanji for the duration of their lives. One of the hardest things to read is actually the names of people. Place names are usually not so bad, but the names of people are a mess.

 

13 minutes ago, Wayler said:

If japanese is such a piece of cake, I don't understand why you would struggle with german. As an Indo-European language, it follows the same grammar as english. So you only need to learn the vocabulary. 

Probably at least partially has to do with German being the first foreign language that I studied and Japanese being the third, with Spanish in the middle. I had a pretty good idea of what I was doing by that point. German grammar is absolutely not the same as English, though. The conjugation and stuff is all completely different. Japanese grammar, in comparison, is extremely simple in most cases.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Steven Pendleton

[Gavynnnnn]

36 minutes ago, Steven Pendleton said:

Japanese people will always say your Japanese is really good if you can manage to do as little as stumble through putting four or five words together. Best way to do it is to go to school and learn there because your teacher will demolish you if you make even the smallest of mistakes.

This is true! I just also know Japanese grammar (in casual conversation) is moderately malleable. But I do want to and hopefully will get to! Let me just clarify I understand way better than I speak because I translate for myself far more often than I create from scratch so your ideas are still definitely within reach, and I have played Japanese games with success in the past. Kanji without furigana still gets me because I don’t study enough, but that’s about it.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Gavynnnnn

[Steven Pendleton]

13 minutes ago, Gavynnnnn said:

This is true! I just also know Japanese grammar (in casual conversation) is moderately malleable. But I do want to and hopefully will get to! Let me just clarify I understand way better than I speak because I translate for myself far more often than I create from scratch so your ideas are still definitely within reach, and I have played Japanese games with success in the past. Kanji without furigana still gets me because I don’t study enough, but that’s about it.

Furigana is generally considered to be bad because you can start to rely on it heavily and then you won't be able to read properly. No choice but to learn the readings.

 

If you really want to practice and can't study it in school, play games in Japanese. It's not the best way, but it helps. I'm playing Amagami on the Vita right now, and that's nothing but text, so yeah, something like that is good. If you want something older, play Sakura Taisen on Dreamcast. Yes, Dreamcast, not Saturn. PC is also good if you can get it to work. 2007 version should be okay on Windows 10.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Steven Pendleton

[Gavynnnnn]

1 minute ago, Steven Pendleton said:

Furigana is generally considered to be bad because you can start to rely on it heavily and then you won't be able to read properly. No choice but to learn the readings.

Yep, but it’s also a great tool for when I’m not sure what a kanji is but already happen to be familiar with the words. Also helps demonstrate pronunciation changes. It’s a tool that can be turned into a crutch. All about how you use it!

[zzip]

2 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

I have always felt that people want instant results, and they don't get that with Japanese since it takes forever to learn kanji. Learning it is not hard, but it does take quite some time. Decades, perhaps, and even Japanese people constantly learn new kanji for the duration of their lives. One of the hardest things to read is actually the names of people. Place names are usually not so bad, but the names of people are a mess.

I think people will learn languages when there is a benefit to doing so.   Like if you interact with native speakers, plan to spend time in a foreign country or even wanting to play videogames or watch movies in the native language might be enough for some people.

 

Otherwise there are too many languages out there, no time to learn them all and many things to learn instead.

[Tanooki]

Ehh being 22 is fair but also a low bar as well.  I'm twice your age, and even I got an appreciation for older stuff in the 80s and earlier 90s.  I had access in home and at a family friends home to the Fairchild Channel F2 system, and with that in home, my mom had a complete boxed system and complete boxed up games, almost all of them too, for the system.  I would play the thing at either place, in time I just took control of the F2 in home, set it up in the third car garage in our house on an office desk with an old TV and would play with it down there at times.  It was ugly, not quite 2600 terrible but close, and same with the audio, but I got some good times out of the tank/combat clone, dodgeball which was weird, and it played a mean game of blackjack.  Arcades would fit too, whether at Showbiz (or CEC) and random spots you'd find arcade games going back to late 70s-early 80s that were already 5+ years old maybe around a decade and find fun there even if they felt dated by what the NES could do at home at the end of 1985 into 1986.  You would really need to be someone in your 50s or 60s at this rate to not have something older to fall back on, a pre-Pong era option which usually were mainframes and few at that.

[bluejay]

Ha, 16 here, and it’s still fascinating whenever I run into people (at least vaguely) around my age who share my interests.

 

@Steven Pendleton It seems to me that I’m experiencing the exact opposite thing. Japanese is easily considered the easiest language for Koreans to learn as the two languages really are quite similar (as far as two vastly different languages go). Sizable portions of the languages’ vocabulary (Chinese-derived words in particular) are similar or identical, and plenty of Japanese words are still in use in the Korean language as a relic from the era of Imperial Japan. Japanese was the first language I attempted to learn (by myself at the age of, like, 10) and obviously I failed spectacularly. I really have little excuse to find kanji difficult, but yeah—I wish Japanese were more like Korean and just used furigana. Meanwhile I’m currently learning French at school and it isn’t so bad. I dunno, maybe it’ll get progressively harder, but I generally found it significantly easier to grasp basic French than basic Japanese.

 

Perhaps once I’m fluent enough in French I’ll dip my toes in Japanese again. It’d be fresh to look back at it after having grasped the concept of learning a new language.