Beeblebrox Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 (edited) 45 minutes ago, RetroSpawn said: You're very helpful. What so you think about Spectre? Should I just abandon the troubleshooting and get that instead? It's very well priced in the UK. See here: UAV has been around for a long time. Spectre is the new kid on the block. Watch the video for more info. Personally I am very happy with UGV for my XE's. In the UK you can get a UGV board fully assembled for less than £30 including UK postage. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266226961336 Sophia 2 is the ultimate though. I have an 800XL with Sophia 2 and VBXE among other things. Edited May 9, 2023 by Beeblebrox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroSpawn Posted May 9, 2023 Author Share Posted May 9, 2023 UGV seems like a good option. Would you be able to help me out with a socket for GTIA on Ebay? Of course thank you so much for the UGV recommendation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 No worries. Sure https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/363814475287 Round 40 pin DIP DIL IC Socket Wide 15.24mm Pitch Chip Holder Pins UK turned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Incidentally if you have an Atari 800XLF then rather than lift C54 to rid yourself of composite interferance when using an S-video cable on a modern LCD screen, you lift C46 instead: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroSpawn Posted May 10, 2023 Author Share Posted May 10, 2023 13 hours ago, Beeblebrox said: No worries. Sure https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/363814475287 Round 40 pin DIP DIL IC Socket Wide 15.24mm Pitch Chip Holder Pins UK turned Thanks! Ordered. 7 hours ago, Beeblebrox said: Incidentally if you have an Atari 800XLF then rather than lift C54 to rid yourself of composite interferance when using an S-video cable on a modern LCD screen, you lift C46 instead: I have 65XE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, RetroSpawn said: Thanks! Ordered. I have 65XE. yeah, I know I was just posting that info generally (collective "you") as it's a thread about s-video issues as well. Wasn't directed at you generally (Sorry, should have made that clearer ) EDIT: Plus I just realised I posted it in the wrong thread anyways! I meant to post it here: Edited May 10, 2023 by Beeblebrox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroSpawn Posted May 10, 2023 Author Share Posted May 10, 2023 No worries, every bit of information helps and is a clue on how to approach it on different models 😉 I got the socket ordered and now debating between Spectre or just VBXE 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 (edited) VBXE obviously gives you a lot more. Also a lot more work potentially. Plus you need to research how you'll connect the rgb. You can I stall a din13 socketed and use a customs din13 to scart. I'll link later as on my way to work. Done this a good few times. Or you can buy something like savo xl. Again I'll link later. Btw how are you at removing ic's and soldering sockets? Build quality on XE boards ai t great and traces and vias can lift easily compared to an XL. Edit: so you have discounted UGV or uav then? Edit2: I know this is an 800XL VBXE install thread of mine, but it gives you an idea what I am talking about: VBXE has an rgb out and has r, g, b, rgb control and ground signals plus you need audio from the computer. So the din13 is a nice way to have this all in one connection. Then the aforementioned Savo xl is here:https://retrolemon.co.uk/atari-8bit-upgrades/213-savo-xl.html Which can be used with VBXE, Spectre, UGV, etc etc. If you go down the din13 VBXE route I have also done this in XE machines. I'd be happy to pop a spare din13 connector in the post for you as you are UK based. Edited May 10, 2023 by Beeblebrox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroSpawn Posted May 10, 2023 Author Share Posted May 10, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, Beeblebrox said: VBXE obviously gives you a lot more. Also a lot more work potentially. Plus you need to research how you'll connect the rgb. You can I stall a din13 socketed and use a customs din13 to scart. I'll link later as on my way to work. Done this a good few times. Or you can buy something like savo xl. Again I'll link later. Btw how are you at removing ic's and soldering sockets? Build quality on XE boards ai t great and traces and vias can lift easily compared to an XL. Edit: so you have discounted UGV or uav then? Edit2: I know this is an 800XL VBXE install thread of mine, but it gives you an idea what I am talking about: VBXE has an rgb out and has r, g, b, rgb control and ground signals plus you need audio from the computer. So the din13 is a nice way to have this all in one connection. Then the aforementioned Savo xl is here:https://retrolemon.co.uk/atari-8bit-upgrades/213-savo-xl.html Which can be used with VBXE, Spectre, UGV, etc etc. If you go down the din13 VBXE route I have also done this in XE machines. I'd be happy to pop a spare din13 connector in the post for you as you are UK based. You have been an amazing help and now you offer a din13. Wow, it is very appreciated! We can get back to this when I decide what I have to do, obviously I will defintely not accept it free of charge 😉 I'm OK at soldering as I do it very often at work and also did some on the Amiga that is already done how I wanted, but saying that, I will take extra care as I'm not experienced in terms of Atari 🙃 Small uodate on my side. Socket on order, even if I'm not sure if VBXE would be the next step. Svideo cable arrived, picture is perfect, except its in black and white through Svideo port. Connected through Svideo to scart it flickers colours, it's very noisy and it randomly goes black and white. Like the TV can't decide what signal this is. Again, black and white is just nearly perfection. If I had a colour this quality I wouldn't do anything else, so I'm a little bit sad at this moment. Last two are from svideo to scart. Edited May 10, 2023 by RetroSpawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 No worries re help. Happy to post a free din13. I have loads. So either a bad connection to chroma from the jack or possibly you have a failing transistor in the video circuit maybe? Also maybe the 4050 chip is failing? ( Not sure but worth mentioning). Personally I'd go with the cheap UGV and wire it to the existing jack's chroma, luna and composite pins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroSpawn Posted May 10, 2023 Author Share Posted May 10, 2023 10 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said: No worries re help. Happy to post a free din13. I have loads. So either a bad connection to chroma from the jack or possibly you have a failing transistor in the video circuit maybe? Also maybe the 4050 chip is failing? ( Not sure but worth mentioning). Personally I'd go with the cheap UGV and wire it to the existing jack's chroma, luna and composite pins. Composite 3 x rca works in colour, but it is not as good in terms of sharpness and clarity overall. I'm debating now UGV vs VBXE, since you brought the UGV to my attention and that I can easily buy it in the UK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, RetroSpawn said: Composite 3 x rca works in colour, but it is not as good in terms of sharpness and clarity overall. I'm debating now UGV vs VBXE, since you brought the UGV to my attention and that I can easily buy it in the UK! Sure. obviously VBXE is a completely different offering, hence it's price, and is more work to install. UGV is cheap and you can use your existing din5 and s-video. However it would be good to get to the bottom of the cause of your current issue. BTW can you post an image of your S-video to scart cable and it's specs? Edited May 10, 2023 by Beeblebrox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said: Also maybe the 4050 chip is failing? ( Not sure but worth mentioning). The COLOR signal doesn't pass through the 4050, on the 65XE it becomes the CHROMA signal after passing through Q2 and a few passive components. Edited May 10, 2023 by BillC 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 8 minutes ago, BillC said: The COLOR signal doesn't pass through the 4050, on the 65XE it becomes the CHROMA signal after passing through Q2 and a few passive components. thanks, so in your opinion do you think this might be a failing transistor (Q2)? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Beeblebrox said: thanks, so in your opinion do you think this might be a failing transistor (Q2)? That or one of the passive components, I have attached a Sobola schematic that includes the circuit in question. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroSpawn Posted May 10, 2023 Author Share Posted May 10, 2023 So I guess I need to check the resistors and other components on the path to Chroma output and additionaly replace the 2n3904? I will post the photos of my cables tomorrow, both, the temporary one I made (crap shielding, black and white through s video) and one from a seller in Germany (looks pretty good and gives black and white without any artifacts). You guys rock. I'm definitely getting closer to the root cause. Many thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 I figured this would be a good place to post this... I developed a Miniature Colecovision Clone called the CV-NUC+ which just got released about a week ago. Since it uses an identically wired 5-pin DIN jack for its A/V aspect I was looking for a good cable to recommend to get all the various signals out of it without introducing any noise or jail bars. Since the Hercules cables are no longer available and the current 8-bit Classics cable has a tendency to create jail bars due to it's single common shield around the Luma and Chroma signals, I decided to go this route... Amazon Buy Links 5-pin DIN to 4 RCA Plug Cable Two RCA plugs to 4-pin Mini-DIN Cable Female RCA Couplers Grand total cost = $23 Results: Works fantastic with no added noise or jail bars. And amazingly for one of these types of cables, yellow actually equals composite video Each signal is fed through its own individually shielded coaxial cable, giving perfect isolation and no cross-talk between signals. And if you have a Commodore 1702 CRT monitor sitting around, ditch the RCA couplers and Mini-DIN-4 adapter cable since it can accept RCA plugs for Chroma, Luma, and Audio. Edit: I am working with Corey over at 8-Bit Classics to hopefully see him offering a new HQ version of his Atari A/V cable maybe this year. Likely it'll be a bit pricier than his current offering, but it'll be every bit as good as the Hercules video cables, having individually shielded cables and terminated with a 4-pin Mini-DIN plug for S-Video output. And I believe it'll still have Composite RCA video out as well, plus dual RCA outputs for left and right audio (actually still mono, but 'Y' fed to two plugs). I'm looking forward to this happening, since there really aren't any good sources left for this kind of thing. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teapot Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 On 6/16/2023 at 2:45 PM, mytek said: I figured this would be a good place to post this... Thanks for this. I got the DIN cable today and the composite output is a definite improvement over my old (old, old (old and weird with a BNC video connector)) cable that I was already happy with. But even better is that I can easily plug the Luma into the composite input of my old 12" Trinitron and get nice, sharp, unartifacted hires graphics. The project I'm working on really needs resolution instead of color. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 On 6/16/2023 at 10:45 PM, mytek said: I figured this would be a good place to post this... I developed a Miniature Colecovision Clone called the CV-NUC+ which just got released about a week ago. Since it uses an identically wired 5-pin DIN jack for its A/V aspect I was looking for a good cable to recommend to get all the various signals out of it without introducing any noise or jail bars. Since the Hercules cables are no longer available and the current 8-bit Classics cable has a tendency to create jail bars due to it's single common shield around the Luma and Chroma signals, I decided to go this route... Amazon Buy Links 5-pin DIN to 4 RCA Plug Cable Two RCA plugs to 4-pin Mini-DIN Cable Female RCA Couplers Grand total cost = $23 Results: Works fantastic with no added noise or jail bars. And amazingly for one of these types of cables, yellow actually equals composite video Each signal is fed through its own individually shielded coaxial cable, giving perfect isolation and no cross-talk between signals. And if you have a Commodore 1702 CRT monitor sitting around, ditch the RCA couplers and Mini-DIN-4 adapter cable since it can accept RCA plugs for Chroma, Luma, and Audio. Edit: I am working with Corey over at 8-Bit Classics to hopefully see him offering a new HQ version of his Atari A/V cable maybe this year. Likely it'll be a bit pricier than his current offering, but it'll be every bit as good as the Hercules video cables, having individually shielded cables and terminated with a 4-pin Mini-DIN plug for S-Video output. And I believe it'll still have Composite RCA video out as well, plus dual RCA outputs for left and right audio (actually still mono, but 'Y' fed to two plugs). I'm looking forward to this happening, since there really aren't any good sources left for this kind of thing. Nice one @mytek Source the cables here in the UK and works like a charm! Thanks. (Small annoyance that the Chroma and luma cables either end are opposite colours heh heh!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACML Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 I tried on my 1200XL that has jail bars using Cory's 8-bit Classics s-video cable. Using the above combination, the jail bars actually got worse and more pronounced. So, the signal bleed is inside the 1200XL or my Samsung TV just doesn't want to play nice with an s-video signal. I have installed the ClearPic2002 video upgrade, but that just replaces existing components with ones of a different value or out right removes some from the circuit (no new component locations). Maybe I should try putting in a UAV and see if this monitor still has jail bars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 jail bars come from power supply noise, ram noise, poor cable shielding or impedance, sometimes because the shields have been removed from the motherboard. So check a fitration caps, cables, and shields. The odd pattern can come from a bad video transistor or bad 4050. Ground loops can mess with your video as well, if all else fails soak up RF and other interference with toroid beads, rings, or clasps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroSpawn Posted June 21, 2023 Author Share Posted June 21, 2023 On 5/10/2023 at 8:04 PM, Beeblebrox said: thanks, so in your opinion do you think this might be a failing transistor (Q2)? The Q2 was missing. I have ultimately sent the board away and the feedback was missing Q2 and damaged GTIA. All running great on any of my cables now. The cable from German seller works amazing and was only 20GBP or something like that. Thanks everyone for help, Ive learned a lot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 lmao, so a bad transistor could be NO TRANSISTOR oh my. You never know what's floating around out there these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 15 minutes ago, RetroSpawn said: The Q2 was missing. I have ultimately sent the board away and the feedback was missing Q2 and damaged GTIA. All running great on any of my cables now. The cable from German seller works amazing and was only 20GBP or something like that. Thanks everyone for help, Ive learned a lot. Glad sorted. Do you have a link to the German cable BTW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroSpawn Posted June 21, 2023 Author Share Posted June 21, 2023 58 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said: lmao, so a bad transistor could be NO TRANSISTOR oh my. You never know what's floating around out there these days. When I bought the Atari, the seller didn't communicate at all when I asked some technical questions. In the end I found out that it was a daughter selling her mother's stuff, she didn't want to get scammed and didn't know what to respond. Got this sorted, paid 200GBP if I recall correctly, because the Atari still has protective foil and has never touched apparently. We came to the conclusion that this transistor was missing when it left factory as there was no signs of other work done on the board. Strange, I got flashjazzcat to install spectre, change Memory and in the end fit the transistor. 45 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said: Glad sorted. Do you have a link to the German cable BTW? Of course. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322480517537?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=ZlOn7kwZQMC&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=2rFn-OLlRve&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY approx £12.86 + £4.75 Postage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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