Fight for Life: Graphics question

[KrunchyTC]

So I heard this game was done by 1 person, and was able to get texture mapped fighters. How much better could the game look if a highly skilled competent team had made the game? 

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

1 hour ago, KrunchyTC said:

So I heard this game was done by 1 person, and was able to get texture mapped fighters. How much better could the game look if a highly skilled competent team had made the game? 

 

 

More than one person worked on Fight For Life, you heard wrong.

 

 

I'm not sure if I understand your question, or rather what the answer you are looking for is. If it had a better dev team working on it how much better could it have looked? Much better? A little better? A better frame rate? I just don't know what you are looking for here. There's no real way to answer your question without more elaborate context. Fight For Life is what it is and a product of it's time. There isn't any 3D fighters on the Jaguar to compare it to either so what we got is what we got.

This question falls more in line with the "what if the Jaguar never flopped?" and "what if Atari had better 3rd party support on the Jag?" categories.

 

It didn't happen that way so we will never know.

Edited May 27, 2023 by WAVE 1 GAMES

[KrunchyTC]

1 hour ago, WAVE 1 GAMES said:

 

 

More than one person worked on Fight For Life, you heard wrong.

 

 

I'm not sure if I understand your question, or rather what the answer you are looking for is. If it had a better dev team working on it how much better could it have looked? Much better? A little better? A better frame rate? I just don't know what you are looking for here. There's no real way to answer your question without more elaborate context. Fight For Life is what it is and a product of it's time. There isn't any 3D fighters on the Jaguar to compare it to either so what we got is what we got.

This question falls more in line with the "what if the Jaguar never flopped?" and "what if Atari had better 3rd party support on the Jag?" categories.

 

It didn't happen that way so we will never know.

Yeah I guess you have a point. My own point was, the game looks surprisingly good considering the development hell it had. Could it have looked anything like VF2 if a really good team were behind it. But like you said, no way to know 

Edited May 27, 2023 by KrunchyTC

[agradeneu]

Yes, could have been better with more development time.

 

[sirlynxalot]

Virtua fighter 2 was developed with a big budget on much more powerful hardware by a special team at sega who were regard as highly talented designers, artists and programmers (AM2) under the leadership of Yu Suzuki, a guy who some consider to be a genius.  FFL had essentially the opposite conditions applied to it in almost every way.  It would have taken a lot more than just additional development time or a slightly larger development team to make FFL similar to VF2.

[Lostdragon]

7 hours ago, KrunchyTC said:

So I heard this game was done by 1 person, and was able to get texture mapped fighters. How much better could the game look if a highly skilled competent team had made the game? 

FFL actually the following team behind it. 

 

 

Design    Francois Yves Bertrand
Code    Francois Yves Bertrand
Art Direction    Richard Ho
Textures by    Silvio Porretta
Voices by    Erik Swenson (the Devil) Steff Sandy LaBrecMorgan WeissJennifer VernonBlair BullockJoe CainStan Weaver
Motion editing    Sherman Richard Ho
Motion choreographers    Ed Chang (Master) Bill Dewart
Title song, Original score    Joe Vitale
In game music    Paul Foster
In game sfx    Paul Foster
Additional soundwork    Nathan BrenholdtHans-Martin Kröber
Lead Tester    Morgan Weiss
Testers    Blair BullockJason CorderoJennifer Vernon

 

 

Francois has talked about the games development  environment :

 

 

 

"The environment was quite different. With SEGA, I was used working in an environment with hundreds of people, working on hardware that would be tweaked overnight, several times a week to get the code I was writing directly adapted at the hardware level. With Atari, we worked with a very small team (for FFL) and with a set piece of hardware.

The game took longer than anticipated to come out, not really due to production issues, but more to the financial state of Atari at the time. We were almost done, when the company more or less folded overnight, and it took some pushing and pulling to get it finished. Working at Atari was as interesting as working for SEGA was, but for different reasons. It was of course a completely different environment, and regardless of what was said of the Jaguar at the time, it was an interesting system to work on. It might have been too advanced for its time though, and the PlayStation really did a number on the industry when it came out. From a technology perspective, it could have been possible to give Sony a run for their money, but from a financial perspective, that was just impossible. The console market was quite different than the personal computer market, and approaching the market the same way than it was done with Atari 16, Amiga in the computer market, would not translate in this world."

 

 

https://www.arcadeattack.co.uk/francois-bertrand/

 

 

And what could of been improved.. 

 

 

<CAO> Do you think you took full advantage of the Jaguar's hardware with
Fight For Life?
<FB> I think it was a nice shot, I would certainly do it faster today, but not
that much.

 

 

[KrunchyTC]

Nice, thanks for digging up this interview. an interesting look into FFL, and the jag.

[LordKraken]

For the record the guy from FFL, Francois-Yves Bertrand, was a key programmer on Viruta Fighter. So if he had the time and budget, no doubt the game could have been much better.

 

From Wikipedia:

Quote

Bertrand contacted Sega of Japan about his then-newly developed technology, recorded a videotape showcasing it and sent it to the company.^[8][9][10] Interested in his technology after seeing the video, Sega suggested Bertrand to work for the company and they proceeded to arrange an interview with him in Japan, which resulted in his hiring and joining AM2 as one of the first foreign members within the division, along with modeler and animator Jeff Buchanan.^{[8][9][10][11]} Under the helm of Yu Suzuki, he and Buchanan formed part of the original Virtua Fighter development team, with Bertrand being responsible for creating the camera and collision systems seen in the game.^{[8][9][10][11][12]} Bertrand would continue working along with Buchanan at Sega in further projects for almost two years before moving to the United States, where he would offer his services to both The 3DO Company and Atari Corporation, with the latter recruiting him to be part of the software development teams for the Jaguar and becoming the sole lead programmer of Fight for Life.^{[8][9][10][11][12][13][14]}

 

[KrunchyTC]

1 hour ago, LordKraken said:

For the record the guy from FFL, Francois-Yves Bertrand, was a key programmer on Viruta Fighter. So if he had the time and budget, no doubt the game could have been much better.

 

From Wikipedia:

 

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. He's a skilled guy!

[Jagosaurus]

Didn't he have to hold the final build of the game hostage, demanding owed payment before releasing to Atari? Or is that another Jag game? 

 

Had that story associated with Bertrand in my head 🤔

 

 

[ArneCRosenfeldt]

Why do people claim that FF has a slow pace? So they captured real motion, but gamers are used to comic style 2d fighters? I read that real martial arts fighters are two fast for 24fps cinema. Maybe Atari should have sped up the speed of their noob fighter models to match that of a top atlethe ? Or is the frame rate from the Jaguar too low? If framerate is everything that count, on the C64 many fighters only had one color. Virtua Fighter has flat shading. Backgrounds in FF did not impress anyone, so it could be some linebuffer init color which does not block the system bus ( +tree and a cloud ). Fill rate is a problem on the Jaguar: So smaller fighters on screen and compensate a bit with sub-pixel precision.

[+Biff Burgertime]

You ask many questions in your post, Arne.

 

But each post of yours only leaves us with far more questions.

[Lostdragon]

On 5/27/2023 at 6:27 AM, KrunchyTC said:

So I heard this game was done by 1 person, and was able to get texture mapped fighters. How much better could the game look if a highly skilled competent team had made the game? 

Found an extra statement from Atari at the time,if your interested in the back story:

 

 

 

An open message from Mr. Ted Hoff, President of North
American operations for Atari Corporation...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Of those of you who follow Atari's progress and 64-bit
Jaguar momentum, some have expressed interests (and
concerns) with regard to the disposition of the much
anticipated Jaguar software title, "Fight for Life." Right
away, let me address the rumors/flames by stating that
"Fight for Life" is alive and well and a solid Atari
development effort continues on that title.

 

Due to the online concerns passed on to me recently, I see there's a need to make Atari's official position clear with regard to its current status.

 

 

 

Since the development effort began on "Fight for Life,"
Francois Bertrand and the "Fight for Life" team have seen
significant progress in the development tools and the
capabilities of the Jaguar machine.

 

What was underestimated
was the development time and effort necessary to take
advantage of the machine's capability. In our most recent
evaluation of "Fight For Life," we were concerned that the
game (in its current stage) did not exploit the capabilities of the Jaguar, nor would it deliver to the gamer the quality or depth of game play expected from the Jaguar 64 system.

 

For this reason, newer development efforts are being explored, including the evaluation of new
software engines to enhance the speed, smoothness and
graphics handling of the Jaguar 64.

 

 

I personally wish to assure you that every step will be
taken to provide a game that meets your expectations and
shows off the strength and capability of the system. Most
of all, I insist that each game provides hours and hours of
fun and challenging game play. I am demanding these
principals to be maintained on all games from Atari; not
only on "Fight for Life."

 

If we change schedules, it will
be for good reason; namely to meet high standards of
graphics appeal and incorporate the "fun factor" for which
Atari products are so well known.

 

 

Francois wants to add...

"Due to the acquisition and implementation of new
resources, my 'Fight For Life' team has been inspired to
enhance 'Fight For Life' in the areas of graphics and
animation. We are really excited with the changes we have
made so far. The enhancements will well be worth the
wait."

 

 

I know the online community has hung in there with us!
Thank you. You are our loyal user base and we are
determined not to disappoint you.

 

 

[PeterG]

Nice haven't seen this bit yet although it is of course only a bit of (cringy) marketing bla bla "to meet high standards of
graphics appeal and incorporate the "fun factor" for which
Atari products are so well known" but yeah still interesting to read, so thanks for sharing. Was this in a newsletter or where did it originate?

[sirlynxalot]

Maybe a bbs since it's addressed to the online community

[Lostdragon]

17 hours ago, PeterG said:

Nice haven't seen this bit yet although it is of course only a bit of (cringy) marketing bla bla "to meet high standards of
graphics appeal and incorporate the "fun factor" for which
Atari products are so well known" but yeah still interesting to read, so thanks for sharing. Was this in a newsletter or where did it originate?

Believe it was a bbs from back in the day. 

 

Was genuinely surprised to find more content relating to the games development, thought i would share it. 

[Pete5125]

I mean it was released after Virtua Fighter and Teken but before Virtua Fighter 2, it was suppose to be a cd game, more megs to use

 

Honestly for a copy cat of Virtua Fighter it wasn't bad, it was clunky, but so where most that tried to do the 3d  at that point in time, it did show Jag was more than a 16 bit machine pretending to be 64 bit.

 

I always likes it but, yeah it was released as an earlier build, theirs a beta copy out their that's slightly better.

 

But without rebuilding from ground up what more was expected at the time.