I wonder if anyone tried making an Atari multibutton gamepad

[Darkhog]

Not talking about connecting a genesis pad, but more of a crazy idea that I unfortunately have no skills or tools to pull out myself.

 

It would connect to BOTH left and right joystick ports (meaning it would be only suitable for single player games), the left joystick's, well, joystick would be mapped to a dpad, while the right joystick would have its direction mapped to 4 buttons (let's call them a, b, x, y) in a standard configuration, while fire buttons of either would be mapped to L/R on the pad. Overall, the entire contraption would be reminiscent of a SNES gamepad, only without start/select buttons and with two cables sticking out of it.

[+x=usr(1536)]

9 hours ago, Darkhog said:

Not talking about connecting a genesis pad, but more of a crazy idea that I unfortunately have no skills or tools to pull out myself.

 

It would connect to BOTH left and right joystick ports (meaning it would be only suitable for single player games), the left joystick's, well, joystick would be mapped to a dpad, while the right joystick would have its direction mapped to 4 buttons (let's call them a, b, x, y) in a standard configuration, while fire buttons of either would be mapped to L/R on the pad. Overall, the entire contraption would be reminiscent of a SNES gamepad, only without start/select buttons and with two cables sticking out of it.

 

That's effectively what a joystick coupler does.

 

 

I get that you're talking about putting it all in a single shell and using it as a 4-button gamepad, but the end result would largely be the same.

[+pboland]

9 hours ago, Darkhog said:

Not talking about connecting a genesis pad, but more of a crazy idea that I unfortunately have no skills or tools to pull out myself.

 

It would connect to BOTH left and right joystick ports (meaning it would be only suitable for single player games), the left joystick's, well, joystick would be mapped to a dpad, while the right joystick would have its direction mapped to 4 buttons (let's call them a, b, x, y) in a standard configuration, while fire buttons of either would be mapped to L/R on the pad. Overall, the entire contraption would be reminiscent of a SNES gamepad, only without start/select buttons and with two cables sticking out of it.

Well, technically it should be possible to make an analog controller with two action buttons for each controller port. Being analog would mean it could work as a somewhat digital controller as well (using fixed resistors for each direction). I'm surprised this was never used with the XEGS to better compete with the NES back in the day as this compatibility is built in every 2600 and Atari 8-bit computer.

 

The way to look at this is, each controller port can handle two paddle controllers each with its own action buttons (that four paddle controllers for both controller ports). One would just need to mount the two pots from a set of paddle controllers  (there's your X & Y directions) and put the two action buttons together. No special electronics or using up both controller ports for one controller.

 

If you really want to use both controller ports, one would just need a coupler device for a standard joystick and the Video Touch Pad controller (or Kids Controller or Keyboard controller). Now you would have an eight way controller with 12 buttons.

[MrTrust]

I'm all for experimenting with many different input methods, particularly on the 2600.  I think more games should incorporate the console switches, paddles, keypads, the whole nine.  The thing I have trouble envisioning is what you would do with an SNES pad on the 2600 that you couldn't do just as well with a keypad or coupler.

 

It's one thing to read two sticks really quickly to determine walking and firing directions, or to cycle weapons/items, change gears, etc.  It's another to do the kinds of things you'd normally envision doing with an SNES pad.  For instance, a Mega Man sort of game with a jump button, shoot button, slide button, special attack button etc.  That a lot of subroutines you then have to write to have all those buttons incorporated, and that's going to eat up a lot of memory.  I know that's not as much of a concern now as it was in the 80s, but even with the A8 and 7800 platforms, 6 buttons feels like a lot.  Even a lot of actual SNES games only really used 2 or 3 buttons, after all.

[doubledown]

1 hour ago, pboland said:

Well, technically it should be possible to make an analog controller with two action buttons for each controller port. Being analog would mean it could work as a somewhat digital controller as well (using fixed resistors for each direction). I'm surprised this was never used with the XEGS to better compete with the NES back in the day as this compatibility is built in every 2600 and Atari 8-bit computer.

 

The way to look at this is, each controller port can handle two paddle controllers each with its own action buttons (that four paddle controllers for both controller ports). One would just need to mount the two pots from a set of paddle controllers  (there's your X & Y directions) and put the two action buttons together. No special electronics or using up both controller ports for one controller.

Back in the day, a very rare controller (the Spectre Handle), created for the Bally Astrocade did this very thing...for their Missile Command type game ICBM Attack...using a non-centering analog joystick to move the on-screen cursor...versus a trak-ball like the arcade games, or a digital joystick like the home ports.  The original controller looked like this:

 

 

I recently made my own version of this controller, as the originals are impossible to find and I wanted to play the game:

 

 

But as you said, the analog joystick uses 2 potentiometers, one for the X-axis movement, and one for the Y-axis movement...though with the Astrocade it had to plug into 2 controller ports, as their ports could only read 1 pot, vs. the Atari's ports, being able to read 2 pots simultaneously.  I would assume the same type of thing could be done on the 2600/8-bits as well...but someone would need to create a game to use the controller, and then someone would need to create a controller to play the game with.  

 

 

[Darkhog]

1 hour ago, MrTrust said:

I'm all for experimenting with many different input methods, particularly on the 2600.  I think more games should incorporate the console switches, paddles, keypads, the whole nine.  The thing I have trouble envisioning is what you would do with an SNES pad on the 2600 that you couldn't do just as well with a keypad or coupler.

 

It's one thing to read two sticks really quickly to determine walking and firing directions, or to cycle weapons/items, change gears, etc.  It's another to do the kinds of things you'd normally envision doing with an SNES pad.  For instance, a Mega Man sort of game with a jump button, shoot button, slide button, special attack button etc.  That a lot of subroutines you then have to write to have all those buttons incorporated, and that's going to eat up a lot of memory.  I know that's not as much of a concern now as it was in the 80s, but even with the A8 and 7800 platforms, 6 buttons feels like a lot.  Even a lot of actual SNES games only really used 2 or 3 buttons, after all.

The advantage of this approach is on the programmer's side. Since to 2600 it would be technically just two regular joysticks, you could use the regular code to handle it, no special ASM required. Right joystick's direction inputs become the A/B/X/Y buttons, left joystick becomes the d-pad and the fire buttons act as L/R buttons.

[MrTrust]

52 minutes ago, Darkhog said:

The advantage of this approach is on the programmer's side. Since to 2600 it would be technically just two regular joysticks, you could use the regular code to handle it, no special ASM required. Right joystick's direction inputs become the A/B/X/Y buttons, left joystick becomes the d-pad and the fire buttons act as L/R buttons.

 

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

23 hours ago, pboland said:

Well, technically it should be possible to make an analog controller with two action buttons for each controller port. Being analog would mean it could work as a somewhat digital controller as well (using fixed resistors for each direction). I'm surprised this was never used with the XEGS to better compete with the NES back in the day as this compatibility is built in every 2600 and Atari 8-bit computer.

Strangely enough, I have a homebrew digital joystick for the 5200 that does something very similar to this.  In order to generate the four cardinal directions, its circuitry basically pegs the pots' resistance at the full ends of their travel when the stick is moved to one of those positions.  While this works in practice, it does mean that there is no motion through the range of resistance, just a jump from one end to the other.

 

In a game like Pac-Man, this doesn't matter - all the player cares about is if they're going left, right, up, or down, and the controls work just fine.  But in a game like Missile Command, where the cursor needs to have free movement over the screen, all that happens is that moving the stick in any direction results in the cursor going off-screen and the game is unplayable.

23 hours ago, pboland said:

The way to look at this is, each controller port can handle two paddle controllers each with its own action buttons (that four paddle controllers for both controller ports). One would just need to mount the two pots from a set of paddle controllers  (there's your X & Y directions) and put the two action buttons together. No special electronics or using up both controller ports for one controller.

Realistically, this is how the Koalapad did it, albeit with a different resistance value to the pots in the Atari paddles.  Building a Star Wars flight yoke using a couple of paddles has also been kicking around in my head for years.

23 hours ago, pboland said:

If you really want to use both controller ports, one would just need a coupler device for a standard joystick and the Video Touch Pad controller (or Kids Controller or Keyboard controller). Now you would have an eight way controller with 12 buttons.

Or a 5200 controller adapter