Atari Mr Run and Jump

[chriswhit]

On 8/13/2023 at 6:57 PM, insertclevernamehere said:

My wife said she'd get this for me as a Christmas present!  Only it seems they only ship to the US according to the website.  Not even Canada.  Sucks.

That does suck. How does Atari expect to sell many if they limit their clientele that way. Hope you find a way.

[insertclevernamehere]

On 8/16/2023 at 6:17 AM, chriswhit said:

That does suck. How does Atari expect to sell many if they limit their clientele that way. Hope you find a way.

I have a friend in Maryland.  It's going to him and then to me.  Hopefully nothing will go awry with it having to be shipped twice.  I reached out to Atari and their response was they are looking to add shipping to Canada "soon" but have no idea when and the pre order window closes "after the number of cartridges have been sold".  I hope, if Atari releases more original carts, that they get that sorted before the second one.

[rbudrick]

Is the VCS version already shipping?  If not, anyone know when?

 

[insertclevernamehere]

2 hours ago, rbudrick said:

Is the VCS version already shipping?  If not, anyone know when?

 

I presume you mean the original VCS, aka the 2600.  I don’t think even Atari know at this stage.  All I’ve seen is 3-4 months.  The modern VCS version is digital only and therefore no “shipping” required.

[Prizrak]

Is it bad after seeing game footage that I'm not impressed. Yes it's a new game from Atari and for that I'm thrilled, but some of our talented programers here on AA have produced games that beat this, visually anyways. When looking at Mr. Run and Jump I immediately think of VHZC, he has done an amazing job with visuals and gameplay mechanics, without the use of ARM assistance. Am I wrong in thinking this way?

[Thomas Jentzsch]

6 hours ago, Prizrak said:

When looking at Mr. Run and Jump I immediately think of VHZC, he has done an amazing job with visuals and gameplay mechanics, without the use of ARM assistance. Am I wrong in thinking this way?

My thoughts exactly.

[hizzy]

After all we've seen, even without the ARM stuff, this game looks... Well, worse than anything in the AA store. Hunchy is better than this. 

[Prizrak]

I absolutely agree, they could have at least worked with a programmer here to develop said game. If looks like a game made with Bb by someone who's starting out. I am not a programmer, nor been with the AA long but I'm a gamer and have been since the mid 80s. Yes a game is not solely based upon graphics, gameplay has a lot to do with it, heck there's been some scary simplistic games for the c64 released, but the gameplay was spot on. This looks like Blinky, but misses the mark. Maybe I'll play it and it'll change my mind, but if I'm spending my hard earned money on a game, it'll be something I feel is a definite purchase, for the price of this game I'd have to say no.

[+ZeroPage Homebrew]

Just finished a four hour stream playing Mr. Run and Jump (2600) that you can watch below. Here are my thoughts:

 

PROS:

- An incredibly challenging platformer. It took me just under four hours to finish the game and the levels got exponentially harder!

- Good ramp up of difficulty, the first level is fairly easy so it lulled me into a false sense of comfort. From there is just got harder until the last level which was near torturous! (in a good way)

- Clever level design that will test even the best of players.

 

CONS:

- No flicker management was used in the game so every enemy shares the 2nd player character. If there are 5 enemies/dangers/ladders on the screen, they're all flashing at 12Hz.

- Unstable picture between screens. If you're playing this cart on a Atari 2600 (classic hardware) you will probably get screen dropouts on a modern TV. It will probably be fine on a CRT but to play it on a modern screen you will probably need an upscaler like a RetroTINK that will smooth over the picture loss bumps

 

Overall I would recommend it to fans of platformers as you can overlook the flicker because the gameplay is old school hard. Luckily you get infinite lives with a score countdown to tell you how well you did. The countdown goes to zero at about 3 hours in, so if you can get more than zero points on your first go around I would say you're an expert player.

 

WARNING: FULL PLAYTHROUGH, EXTREME SPOILERS!

 

 

 

 

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Congratulations! 👍 

 

[LatchKeyKid]

On 11/15/2023 at 7:44 PM, ZeroPage Homebrew said:

Just finished a four hour stream playing Mr. Run and Jump (2600) that you can watch below. Here are my thoughts:

 

PROS:

- An incredibly challenging platformer. It took me just under four hours to finish the game and the levels got exponentially harder!

- Good ramp up of difficulty, the first level is fairly easy so it lulled me into a false sense of comfort. From there is just got harder until the last level which was near torturous! (in a good way)

- Clever level design that will test even the best of players.

 

CONS:

- No flicker management was used in the game so every enemy shares the 2nd player character. If there are 5 enemies/dangers/ladders on the screen, they're all flashing at 12Hz.

- Unstable picture between screens. If you're playing this cart on a Atari 2600 (classic hardware) you will probably get screen dropouts on a modern TV. It will probably be fine on a CRT but to play it on a modern screen you will probably need an upscaler like a RetroTINK that will smooth over the picture loss bumps

 

Overall I would recommend it to fans of platformers as you can overlook the flicker because the gameplay is old school hard. Luckily you get infinite lives with a score countdown to tell you how well you did. The countdown goes to zero at about 3 hours in, so if you can get more than zero points on your first go around I would say you're an expert player.

 

WARNING: FULL PLAYTHROUGH, EXTREME SPOILERS!

 

 

 

 

 

I've been watching playthroughs on youtube including obviously your's and, wow, that flicker is pretty intense even in areas where I really don't think there is any reason it should be theoretically.  Part of that is likely the 30hz video uploads making it worse than it appears in person (as you explained in your video) but it's still IMO more common than it could be with some effort.   There is flicker in areas where it looks like some programming would seemingly resolve the issue (and of course I say this as someone with no real programming so those with more experience please chime in whether to agree or to correct me).  I was under the impression that coders can divide the screen/kernel into horizontal sections where the same sprite can be reused as long as there is sufficient gap between the sprites and as long as they don't cross the section boundaries; in this game I see identical elements at very different elevations flickering like a ladder way above a pit with an enemy sprite.  Additionally, there are instances of the exact same static sprite (ladders or spikes) flickering on a level surface with nothing interactive in between them.  Why wasn't the sprite simply doubled instead of alternated via flickering?  There isn't anything going on in between them that you'd need to interact with so the only game design difference would be possibly changing the distance between them depending on whether you want close/med/wide separation.  Then there are the flickering triple spike pits of death that you simply jump over and nothing else happens; again, why not double the spikes close (as long as the jump distance can still cover that) instead of flickering?

 

I fully understand when independently moving sprites (both identical and different) are crossing over or near each other's paths but the needless flickering makes me think that the coder didn't want to design the game around avoiding the flicker on a per screen basis but rather just preferred a one size fits all solution instead.  Or maybe I've just been spoiled by VHZC's excellent games in the genre that don't have any flicker at all and design around the limitations...

Edited November 22, 2023 by LatchKeyKid

[smesgr]

don't know why everybody hating on this for 7 pages straight. I bought one of amazon and played it on stella and on my real Jr. and really liked it.

Flickering was notable but have seen worst offender because the enemies always follow a rhythm thus flicker is afaik not so much of an issue like in Defender. I'm with ZeroPage on this one good game. Additionally it is likely a game for speed runners. I'm curious how fast those runners could finish it.

 

I'm more baffled why Atari dropped the manual compared to the limited "silver" US releases but provided this odd sleeve. I rather have a manual instead of this cartridge sleeve, even through a manual is not really necessary for this game.

[+ZeroPage Homebrew]

2 hours ago, LatchKeyKid said:

I fully understand when independently moving sprites (both identical and different) are crossing over or near each other's paths but the needless flickering makes me think that the coder didn't want to design the game around avoiding the flicker on a per screen basis but rather just preferred a one size fits all solution instead.  Or maybe I've just been spoiled by VHZC's excellent games in the genre that don't have any flicker at all and design around the limitations...

 

I did an interview with the developer of Mr. Run and Jump that you can watch in the link below where I ask him about the flicker and the frame drops between screens (jump to 1:08:51)

 

Summary:

• Frame Drops: He tested the game on an emulator and CRT, both smooth over frame drops so they're not as noticeable.
• Flicker: His engine was built for simplicity so that any enemy can be anywhere on the screen. No flicker management was considered.

 

- James

 

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

17 minutes ago, smesgr said:

don't know why everybody hating on this for 7 pages straight. I bought one of amazon and played it on stella and on my real Jr. and really liked it.

Flickering was notable but have seen worst offender because the enemies always follow a rhythm thus flicker is afaik not so much of an issue like in Defender. 

I am very sensitive to flicker, there are numerous original games I cannot play for long. And some homebrews too. Maybe I would like the game without the flicker, but as it is, it hurts me.

 

Also, as a developer, I can see where a game could be improved. And here I am facing this technical gaps virtually constantly, which makes me upset.

[LatchKeyKid]

22 minutes ago, smesgr said:

don't know why everybody hating on this for 7 pages straight. I bought one of amazon and played it on stella and on my real Jr. and really liked it.

Flickering was notable but have seen worst offender because the enemies always follow a rhythm thus flicker is afaik not so much of an issue like in Defender. I'm with ZeroPage on this one good game. Additionally it is likely a game for speed runners. I'm curious how fast those runners could finish it.

I'm glad that you're happy with your purchase (no sarcasm intended) and really liked the game.  It has its ups for sure and seems like an enjoyable platformer but I can only speak of it as a viewer who watched the gameplay in the past day as I was checking out 2600+ coverage and the flicker significantly distracted from that experience.  Also, criticism is not a synonym for hate (or violence not that you're claiming that one but it needs to unfortuantely be said in modern times) and mine in particular was pretty mild and reasoned out with examples and potential fixes.

Edited November 22, 2023 by LatchKeyKid

[LatchKeyKid]

21 minutes ago, ZeroPage Homebrew said:

 

I did an interview with the developer of Mr. Run and Jump that you can watch in the link below where I ask him about the flicker and the frame drops between screens (jump to 1:08:51)

 

Summary:

• Frame Drops: He tested the game on an emulator and CRT, both smooth over frame drops so they're not as noticeable.
• Flicker: His engine was built for simplicity so that any enemy can be anywhere on the screen. No flicker management was considered.

 

- James

 

 

Thanks and watching that part now!   It looks like he did just take the path of least resistance in terms of sprite management that also offered the greatest flexibility.  That said, I really think that the game would be well served once the core programming is done to go over each screen (I assume they're not randomly generated?) and see if there is an easy way to reduce or eliminate the flicker.  YMMV but thanks for the coverage as always!

[+sramirez2008]

It’s an okay game. Nothing more. Would I have played it as a 10 yr old, sure, but then again I spent countless hours playing Laser Blast too. If anyone thinks the criticism on this thread is harsh, just wait until The Video Game Critic gets his hands on this one.😉

[tradyblix]

On 9/9/2023 at 7:56 PM, Prizrak said:

Is it bad after seeing game footage that I'm not impressed. Yes it's a new game from Atari and for that I'm thrilled, but some of our talented programers here on AA have produced games that beat this, visually anyways. When looking at Mr. Run and Jump I immediately think of VHZC, he has done an amazing job with visuals and gameplay mechanics, without the use of ARM assistance. Am I wrong in thinking this way?

Well it's no Solaris, but it is a pretty good game. You can see people playing it online that can't put it down. Sometimes it's about gameplay over graphics, something that not everyone, to this day, appreciates. 

[insertclevernamehere]

Anyone know when the limited edition is supposed to ship?

[+KaeruYojimbo]

Some first impressions after a quick play:

 

I think I would like this game a lot more with checkpoints of some sort. Having to restart at the very beginning of each stage gets tedious, especially considering how perfectly some of the screens need to be timed and how easy it can be to get sloppy/lazy when going back though the early part of a level for the umpteenth time.

 

The screen dropouts are barely noticeable on my CRT, definitely nowhere near as bad as they looked in the early videos. But the flicker is just as bad as advertised. Particularly on screens with more than 2 enemies. It's not a dealbreaker for me, but it does make the game look sloppy, much sloppier than I would want the "first new 2600 game released by Atari in 30 years" to be.

 

Also, I would have preferred a manual over the little cardboard sleeve thing.

[peter2014]

I really like the game. I played it on my original Atari 2600 connected to a Sony Trinitron CRT. Yes, the flickering is obvious. But thats the only problem this game got technically (and also PacMan got that flickering and it was one of the games me and my friends spend the most time playing on the Atari 2600 back then). Otherwise its really an addicting game. But I see one problem with the game: When you power off your Atari 2600 everythings gone. I understand that restarting at the beginning of each level after you died is part of the challenge. And I also understand the criticism that sometimes there are screens which depend on a good amount of luck (which makes it annoying to get back to the screen where you died before). But you could see that also as part of the challenge of that game.

 

But playing everytime you start the Atari 2600 again from the first level is really a bug. Why should I replay level 1 and 2 the next day when I simply got stuck in level 3? Right now I see only the solution to leave the Atari 2600+ running overnight (the timer doesnt change when you dont press fire after you died). Thats not much of a problem with an Atari 2600+. But im not leaving my old Atari 2600 powered on just cause a game doesnt offer level jump tables. Thats a huge bug inside that game. So does anyone know some button pressing "cheat" to jump directly to levels?

[Thomas Jentzsch]

1 hour ago, peter2014 said:

So does anyone know some button pressing "cheat" to jump directly to levels?

Unfortunately the 2600+ doesn't offer this option (yet?). Since the Stella emulator supports save states (and the R77 makes use of them), there is hope that access to the Stella UI will be added with future updates. E.g. Stella's command menu for R77 looks like this:

Here you have direct access to some options. And with "Settings..." there are many, many more options available. A command menu for the 2600+ would look similar (or identical).

[LatchKeyKid]

1 hour ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Unfortunately the 2600+ doesn't offer this option (yet?). Since the Stella emulator supports save states (and the R77 makes use of them), there is hope that access to the Stella UI will be added with future updates. E.g. Stella's command menu for R77 looks like this:

Here you have direct access to some options. And with "Settings..." there are many, many more options available. A command menu for the 2600+ would look similar (or identical).

 

Would that also solve other problems like controller/multibutton support by enabling it in menu?  Or is there also a hardware problem stopping that support?

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

10 minutes ago, LatchKeyKid said:

Would that also solve other problems like controller/multibutton support by enabling it in menu?  Or is there also a hardware problem stopping that support?

I can only answer Stella related questions.

 

@Ben from Plaion do you know more?

 

[livingonwheels]

I am strongly considering purchasing a Retron 77 just so I can enjoy Mr Run and Jump. I saw a review that said the game is nearly impossible to finish, and just not very fun without some type of save system, and he completed it using the save state option in the Retron 77. It would be a benefit with other 2600 titles too in my opinion, like Dragon Stomper and Mindmaster.