Why, in 2023, the 5200 is a better system then the XEGS despite having 1/4 the RAM (16K vs. 64K)

[BIGHMW]

1) 2600 (VCS) adapter compatibility (later 2-port units only, and there are plenty of those), so it's like having two systems in one console

 

2) Compatibility with BOTH digital (2600 and 7800, with either Redemption 5200 or Electra Concepts or Retro Game Boyz Masterplay) and analog controllers

 

3) 5200-exclusive titles like Tempest, Castle Blast, and the Mean Hamster Software titles, among others

 

4) Surge of third-party homebrew controllers available from the likes of @Lucas Lac124, @edladdin, Wico, Coin Controls, and Retro Game Boyz among others

 

5) Many new homebrew titles that are being developed for the 5200 FIRST, and, those titles and XL/XE conversions that actually play better on the 5200 than on the XEGS/8-bit

 

6) The legendary CX53 Trak-Ball controller

 

Those 6 outweigh the XEGS' 64K of RAM and its rather large library enough, and while yes we COULD, use some more conversions we DO already have about 500 titles to choose from.

 

...and yes while we are a very small community, but contrary to popular belief, we are a very thankful community that actually appreciates the wonderful work that these guys and gals put in (and have put in) to make Big Sexy great, even 40 years later.

 

A BIG Thank You to all of those who either program, produce, or convert titles over to our beloved units!!!

[miker]

Well, here we go again...

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

1 hour ago, BIGHMW said:

make Big Sexy great

Again?

[www.atarimania.com]

Congrats, you really outdid yourself this time.

[+Stephen]

5 hours ago, BIGHMW said:

we COULD, use some more conversions

I am going to keep a calendar of every time you make a request.  I am sure there has to be a correlation between the half life of certain medications (or chemicals) and the frequency of these requests.  The requests have so far been far too frequent for me to gather anything except a scatter plot, but given enough time, I will extract a pattern.

[Cebus Capucinis]

1 hour ago, Stephen said:

I am going to keep a calendar of every time you make a request.  I am sure there has to be a correlation between the half life of certain medications (or chemicals) and the frequency of these requests.  The requests have so far been far too frequent for me to gather anything except a scatter plot, but given enough time, I will extract a pattern.

Please, please make it a "DAYS SINCE" sign for extra force.

[+x=usr(1536)]

10 hours ago, Stephen said:

I am going to keep a calendar of every time you make a request.  I am sure there has to be a correlation between the half life of certain medications (or chemicals) and the frequency of these requests.  The requests have so far been far too frequent for me to gather anything except a scatter plot, but given enough time, I will extract a pattern.

Permit me to suggest a Cindy Margolis axis, or at the very least giving her her own colour of dot.  She's been a fixture of his posts since the fourth-ever one he made here on August 26, 2007, just 12 days after joining the forum.

 

 

Incidentally, that post has excellent potential for yelling METAL!!! at the top of one's lungs.

[+MrFish]

Why, in 2023, the 5200 is a better system then the XEGS despite having 1/4 the RAM (16K vs. 64K)

 

Fake news. Nice try, though.

 

Real answer: because life is just so unfair. Sit back, pop open a beer and relax a bit...

 

[+MrFish]

On 6/21/2023 at 3:25 PM, BIGHMW said:

...we DO already have about 500 titles to choose from.

Is this really true? Somehow, it doesn't seem like there are quite that many, yet.

 

[+Stephen]

10 minutes ago, MrFish said:

Is this really true? Somehow, it doesn't seem like there are quite that many, yet.

Give him time, he'll get through those requests soon enough.  Don't forget to add a bunch of @@@ tags to bother tons of people too.

[leech]

So just to throw a wrench in here... what if someone built a 5200 style controller option for the XL?

[phuzaxeman]

11 minutes ago, leech said:

So just to throw a wrench in here... what if someone built a 5200 style controller option for the XL?

I've read about this topic before.  I'm not a programmer but using 5200 sticks for the 8bit to work like a 5200 would also need reprogramming of the 8bit software itself to move and feel like the 5200. I imagine playing games like Realsports Baseball or Star Raiders using the 5200 keypad on the 8bit would also need the keypad to be routed. Programmers would have more technical insight.    

[BIGHMW]

9 minutes ago, leech said:

So just to throw a wrench in here... what if someone built a 5200 style controller option for the XL?

THAT, RIGHT THERE, would've been a game changer, I'll bet some 5200 owners would've been more attracted to the XEGS as such a controller makes the XEGS perhaps a frontrunner as opposed to having to put up with having to use a separate keyboard and joystick setup. Games like Star Raiders, Countermeasure and Defender did benefit from the 5200's combo joystick/keypad controller as that configuration makes it easier to access certain functions in most games without having to either put down the joystick or look down to access the keyboard to (hopefully) hit the right button,  many a gamer on an A8/XL/XE/XEGS can tell you how many lives they lost in those specific games. RealSports Baseball is a breeze on the 5200 compared to the A8/XL/XE/XEGS conversion, so many ways of hitting/bunting and defensive and pitching modes simply excel on Big Sexy.

[Shawn]

On 6/22/2023 at 7:26 AM, x=usr(1536) said:

Permit me to suggest a Cindy Margolis axis, or at the very least giving her her own colour of dot.  She's been a fixture of his posts since the fourth-ever one he made here on August 26, 2007, just 12 days after joining the forum.

 

 

Incidentally, that post has excellent potential for yelling METAL!!! at the top of one's lungs.

 

You spelled MENTAL incorrectly.

[+DrVenkman]

1 hour ago, leech said:

So just to throw a wrench in here... what if someone built a 5200 style controller option for the XL?

The 5200 and A8 internals vary in some significant ways, especially concerning the controllers. The 5200 has mux chips on the controller ports that allow decoding of the keypads for up to 4 controllers, plus analog control on each one, or the use of a true analog Trak-Ball. There's a specific "POKEY Adjust" variable resistor on the 5200 to calibrate those analog controls at a system level. None of that exists on the A8 line and can't be retrofitted. 

[+x=usr(1536)]

1 hour ago, DrVenkman said:

The 5200 and A8 internals vary in some significant ways, especially concerning the controllers. The 5200 has mux chips on the controller ports that allow decoding of the keypads for up to 4 controllers, plus analog control on each one, or the use of a true analog Trak-Ball. There's a specific "POKEY Adjust" variable resistor on the 5200 to calibrate those analog controls at a system level. None of that exists on the A8 line and can't be retrofitted. 

While everything you're saying here is true, there might be a way to emulate its functionality on the A8 without the mux chips.

 

Pins 1-4 on the A8 controller port would allow for a keypad with 4 bits' worth of keys to be implemented.  Conveniently, the 5200's controller has 15 keys on it.  Use the joystick inputs for the keypad, add in the two pots for X- and Y-axis movement, plus their buttons, and you've got something that could possibly work on an A8.

 

Obviously, this isn't how the 5200 did things, for the most part.  But given what's there to work with on the A8, it might make for a reasonable facsimile.

 

Of course, none of this changes the fact that the software would still need to be modified and / or written to support it.  So while it might be possible to make a CX52-alike controller for the A8, without the software it would be a total white elephant until that happened.

[leech]

3 hours ago, DrVenkman said:

The 5200 and A8 internals vary in some significant ways, especially concerning the controllers. The 5200 has mux chips on the controller ports that allow decoding of the keypads for up to 4 controllers, plus analog control on each one, or the use of a true analog Trak-Ball. There's a specific "POKEY Adjust" variable resistor on the 5200 to calibrate those analog controls at a system level. None of that exists on the A8 line and can't be retrofitted. 

 

2 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

While everything you're saying here is true, there might be a way to emulate its functionality on the A8 without the mux chips.

 

Pins 1-4 on the A8 controller port would allow for a keypad with 4 bits' worth of keys to be implemented.  Conveniently, the 5200's controller has 15 keys on it.  Use the joystick inputs for the keypad, add in the two pots for X- and Y-axis movement, plus their buttons, and you've got something that could possibly work on an A8.

 

Obviously, this isn't how the 5200 did things, for the most part.  But given what's there to work with on the A8, it might make for a reasonable facsimile.

 

Of course, none of this changes the fact that the software would still need to be modified and / or written to support it.  So while it might be possible to make a CX52-alike controller for the A8, without the software it would be a total white elephant until that happened.

I was kind of being a turd to the post, in that there is 500 titles on the 5200 in as much as we could get a 5200 controller working on one of the computers. 

 

Is there maybe a 5th of that?  That has always been the problem with new hardware additions, needing the software support to make it worthwhile.

[+x=usr(1536)]

23 minutes ago, leech said:

 

I was kind of being a turd to the post, in that there is 500 titles on the 5200 in as much as we could get a 5200 controller working on one of the computers. 

Yeah, OK 

23 minutes ago, leech said:

Is there maybe a 5th of that?  That has always been the problem with new hardware additions, needing the software support to make it worthwhile.

Well, here's what `find /path/to/my/5200/collection/ -type f | wc -l' has to say about that:

 

     252

 

As for 500 5200 titles?  I'd say it's feasible, since I by no means have everything for the machine.

[leech]

1 hour ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Yeah, OK 

Well, here's what `find /path/to/my/5200/collection/ -type f | wc -l' has to say about that:

 

     252

 

As for 500 5200 titles?  I'd say it's feasible, since I by no means have everything for the machine.

ls -l|wc -l
241
Rude, I'm missing some...

Edit: Granted there's like 4 versions of Buck Rogers, 4 of Bounty Bob Strikes Back, etc...

Edited June 25, 2023 by leech

[+craigmaloney]

I'm just wondering which version of BASIC to use with the 5200.

 

Atari 2600: BASIC Programming Language

Atari XEGS: Atari BASIC (or MIcrosoft BASIC / Microsoft BASIC II)

Atari 7800: 7800Basic

 

Is there a 5200Basic that I'm missing?

[BIGHMW]

2 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Yeah, OK 

Well, here's what `find /path/to/my/5200/collection/ -type f | wc -l' has to say about that:

 

     252

 

As for 500 5200 titles?  I'd say it's feasible, since I by no means have everything for the machine.

I was counting not only all 69 original official releases from 1982-87 but also the 15-18 prototypes as well as the numerous A8 conversions and also all of the original homebrews from our tremendous family of developers who happen to call this forum home. But also, you almost forgot to include Peter Meyer and all at Video 61/Atari Sales and their cartridge-only releases they have also.

 

I'll make sure to extract the files from my SD card I use on my Atarimax multicart from their various locations, from A-Z, you know, those locations. 🙂

[leech]

Ha, just had a rather hilarious thought, what if all this time there was some detection code in the XEGS where it would work with a 5200 controller.  The keyboard port is the same 15 pin physical connection...

 

I should hook my XEGS up again to my Commodore 1702 and play Barnyard Blast again, now that I'm thinking about it...

[christo930]

The XEGS isn't just better because it has more RAM. AFAIK, it supports multi-color sprites. it supports a keyboard and Atari IO devices like the Atari disk drive. The XEGS supports largerr cartridges as well.

 

Really, it is rather pointless to even compare them in the first place. The releases were years apart and did not overlap.  One was released by Atari and one released by "atari*"  Much was made of the XEGS being a computer in addition to being a game system.  The 5200 didn't pretend to be a computer even with the shared 8bit internals.

[zylon]

On 6/21/2023 at 5:23 PM, x=usr(1536) said:

Again?

He's gonna take you back to the past, with 💩 threads that suck @$$

[+x=usr(1536)]

3 hours ago, christo930 said:

The XEGS isn't just better because it has more RAM. AFAIK, it supports multi-color sprites.

Nope.  It and the 5200 have the exact same sprite capabilities.  Both use the GTIA and ANTIC to generate their displays, so everything's 100% identical in that regard.

3 hours ago, christo930 said:

it supports a keyboard and Atari IO devices like the Atari disk drive. The XEGS supports largerr cartridges as well.

The one major IC the A8 range has that the 5200 lacks is the PIA, which is what makes it possible for the computers to use SIO-attached peripherals.  There's also no SIO support within the 5200's 2K OS ROM vs. the 10K OS ROM of the 8-bit computers.  This means that there's no good way to make them work with the 5200.

3 hours ago, christo930 said:

Really, it is rather pointless to even compare them in the first place. The releases were years apart and did not overlap.  One was released by Atari and one released by "atari*"  Much was made of the XEGS being a computer in addition to being a game system.  The 5200 didn't pretend to be a computer even with the shared 8bit internals.

Thing is, the XEGS was really an attempt at generating some end-of-life interest in the 8-bit line; chronologically, the 5200 makes more sense.  I have nothing against the XEGS, but the reasons behind its existence always baffled me because the ST had already been on the market for a couple of years by the time it was unveiled, and the 2600 and 7800 were also in production alongside it.

 

I'd rather not get into another discussion about the Tramiels and how they ran Atari, but whoever thought that having three different game consoles with varying degrees of incompatibility on the market at the same time was a good idea needed to have a hole drilled in their head.