ST/STe compatibility question

[scotty]

Owned an Atari 520, 520STfm and a MEGA 2 back in the day. Did the unthinkable and switched to Amiga after the MEGA 2, so never owned an STe or later.   Just curious about compatibility.  How much software ran on the ST, that did not run on the STe?  Was it similar to the 800 and 800XL in the 8-bit days, or a lot less?   I play with emulation with Hatari, Steem SSE and MISTer and do not recall seeing many (if any) programs that did not work.

 

Opinion?

[zzip]

I eventually switched to STe.   Don't recall that many compatibility issues.   Just a handful of things here and there that wouldn't run.

[masteries]

As Zzip comented, there are only few exceptions,

 

All games I tested operated ok, and I tested so many of them.

It appears that there are only few incompatibilities.

 

 

Now, we need anyone that tested productivity software,

[tjlazer]

Not a lot, and the ones that didn't were patched pretty quickly.  Arkanoid was one.

[ijor]

The main source of incompatibility is the TOS version.

 

There are much more titles that work on an ST with TOS 1.0, and don't work with TOS 1.4 (or even TOS 1.2); than titles that work on an ST with TOS 1.4 but not on an STE.

[MrMaddog]

The other types of ST games I knew that had problems running on the STe were based on STOS Basic, but those can be patched by the STOSFIX program.

[scotty]

Is there a device similar to the Ultimate 1MB for the 8-bits that lets to switch TOS versions at will?  Granted, I know an STe TOS will not work on an original ST, as it does not have the hardware to support it.  But did anybody make a device to let you switch from 1.0, 1.2 and 1.4?

 

[scotty]

4 hours ago, ijor said:

The main source of incompatibility is the TOS version.

 

There are much more titles that work on an ST with TOS 1.0, and don't work with TOS 1.4 (or even TOS 1.2); than titles that work on an ST with TOS 1.4 but not on an STE.

That is why I hated to send my 520 to Atari for the 520fm 'upgrade'.  I figured the original (with TOS 1.0) would be like the original Atari 800 and run a lot more than the later machines/TOS versions.

 

[bfollowell]

10 hours ago, scotty said:

Is there a device similar to the Ultimate 1MB for the 8-bits that lets to switch TOS versions at will?  Granted, I know an STe TOS will not work on an original ST, as it does not have the hardware to support it.  But did anybody make a device to let you switch from 1.0, 1.2 and 1.4?

 

Exxos sells a dual TOS upgrade that lets you switch between two different OSes with the flip of a switch.

 

You can get 1.62/2.06 or 1.04/2.06

https://exxosforum.co.uk/atari/last/tos/index.htm#STETOSSWITCH

[zzip]

10 hours ago, scotty said:

Is there a device similar to the Ultimate 1MB for the 8-bits that lets to switch TOS versions at will?  Granted, I know an STe TOS will not work on an original ST, as it does not have the hardware to support it.  But did anybody make a device to let you switch from 1.0, 1.2 and 1.4?

 

I think there was a way to load TOS 1.0 from disk,  if you have enough memory, this might be enough to deal with those old games that need 1.0

[bfollowell]

2 hours ago, zzip said:

I think there was a way to load TOS 1.0 from disk,  if you have enough memory, this might be enough to deal with those old games that need 1.0

Yes, that's true. I've never done this myself, but I've heard it before. An STE is extremely cheap and easy to upgrade to 4MB too, so there really is no reason for anyone with an STE to not have a 4160STE!

 

[+DarkLord]

Do yourself a favor...

 

Get a mass storage device such as the Ultrasatan and then

fill it full of games (upwards of 1600+) from this site:

 

https://atari.8bitchip.info/fromhd3.php

 

They've been adapted to work with newer versions of TOS,

higher memory, mass storage devices, bugs fixed, cover

photo's added, and even trainers... 

 

[leech]

On 6/27/2023 at 10:37 AM, scotty said:

Owned an Atari 520, 520STfm and a MEGA 2 back in the day. Did the unthinkable and switched to Amiga after the MEGA 2, so never owned an STe or later.   Just curious about compatibility.  How much software ran on the ST, that did not run on the STe?  Was it similar to the 800 and 800XL in the 8-bit days, or a lot less?   I play with emulation with Hatari, Steem SSE and MISTer and do not recall seeing many (if any) programs that did not work.

 

Opinion?

I ended up using a TOS 1.4 boot disk for the few that wouldn't just work.  There were more that would choke if you were running on a Mega STe (which is what I had) at 16mhz from the hard drive.  So it may be based on which STe  you're referring to.  I think the 1040 STe was a bit more compatible, due to TOS 1.6x being in it vs the 2.05/2.06 that I had with the Mega STe.

[leech]

6 hours ago, zzip said:

I think there was a way to load TOS 1.0 from disk,  if you have enough memory, this might be enough to deal with those old games that need 1.0

Yup, this is what I did on my Mega STe back in the day.    Can't recall exactly which games would fail to load without it, but mostly it was early ST games.

[scotty]

6 hours ago, bfollowell said:

 An STE is extremely cheap and easy to upgrade to 4MB too, so there really is no reason for anyone with an STE to not have a 4160STE!

 

show me one 'cheap'

 

[bfollowell]

No, I said it's cheap and easy to upgrade, not that an STE is cheap. I guess that could've been taken more than one way. Assuming you already have a 520 or 1040STE, you should be able upgrade it to a full 4MB for around $20.

 

[ijor]

20 hours ago, bfollowell said:

An STE is extremely cheap and easy to upgrade to 4MB too, so there really is no reason for anyone with an STE to not have a 4160STE!

 

Well, there are some programs and demos that break when running on 4MB RAM. Believe it or not, a few break even with 1MB (they require exactly 512K RAM). This is easier to workaround though, because there are tools that can configure the MMU for 512K regardless the amount of physical RAM.

[leech]

4 hours ago, bfollowell said:

No, I said it's cheap and easy to upgrade, not that an STE is cheap. I guess that could've been taken more than one way. Assuming you already have a 520 or 1040STE, you should be able upgrade it to a full 4MB for around $20.

 

Ha, Cheap is relative.  STes are less expensive than Amigas these days for sure.  It also seems easier to pick them up in great condition (unless you are talking about Mega STe and TT, they are insanely priced.)

 

Good god, there are still people who are nuts though!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/204379771922

[zzip]

When i sold my STe a year or two back, It sold for as much as I paid for it in 1991!  (not inflation adjusted)  so definitely    not cheap compared to other hardware of the same vintage. I understood @bfollowell's comment to be referring to the memory price, but I see it can be read it either way.

 

22 hours ago, leech said:

On 6/30/2023 at 11:02 AM, zzip said:

I think there was a way to load TOS 1.0 from disk,  if you have enough memory, this might be enough to deal with those old games that need 1.0

Yup, this is what I did on my Mega STe back in the day.    Can't recall exactly which games would fail to load without it, but mostly it was early ST games.

I remember having a disk with TOS 1.0, but I don't recall having to actually use it very often.   Mine was upgraded to TOS 2.06 and compatibility was rarely an issue.

 

[bfollowell]

5 hours ago, leech said:

Ha, Cheap is relative.  STes are less expensive than Amigas these days for sure.  It also seems easier to pick them up in great condition (unless you are talking about Mega STe and TT, they are insanely priced.)

 

Good god, there are still people who are nuts though!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/204379771922

The comment was written that the computer was cheap and easy to upgrade, not that it was cheap, and easy to upgrade. Notice the comma placement in my example, and the lack of a comma in my original comment. It makes all the difference in the world. 😉

 

It's easy to misread though, so I understand why everyone misunderstood my comment. And yes, I agree, there's nothing at all cheap about STEs these days, especially in the U.S. That was reason I adopted a U.K. machine and converted it, for all practical purposes, to a U.S. model.

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by bfollowell

[scotty]

7 hours ago, ijor said:

 

Well, there are some programs and demos that break when running on 4MB RAM. Believe it or not, a few break even with 1MB (they require exactly 512K RAM). This is easier to workaround though, because there are tools that can configure the MMU for 512K regardless the amount of physical RAM.

This is one thing I really like about emulation, as you can change this on the fly, as well as PAL/NTSC.

 

[scotty]

6 hours ago, leech said:

Ha, Cheap is relative.  STes are less expensive than Amigas these days for sure.  It also seems easier to pick them up in great condition (unless you are talking about Mega STe and TT, they are insanely priced.)

 

Good god, there are still people who are nuts though!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/204379771922

I have 3 Amiga 500s and a 3000.  One 500 is my original from the 80s.  The second I got at a flea market.  No idea where I got the 3rd.   Gonna have to sell some and get an ST(e)

 

[leech]

1 hour ago, bfollowell said:

The comment was written that the computer was cheap and easy to upgrade, not that it was cheap, and easy to upgrade. Notice the comma placement in my example, and the lack of a comma in my original comment. It makes all the difference in the world. 😉

 

It's easy to misread though, so I understand why everyone misunderstood my comment. And yes, I agree, there's nothing at all cheap about STEs these days, especially in the U.S. That was reason I adopted a U.K. machine and converted it, for all practical purposes, to a U.S. model.

 

No worries, my comment was not in response to your comment about it being cheap to upgrade.  It was in response to the other that was complaining the computers were expensive.  It is definitely relative.  You are correct, with standard SIMMs it is much cheaper to upgrade ram than the standard ST is.  Or even the Falcon (cheap bastards making a proprietary connection there...)

[masteries]

On 7/2/2023 at 12:00 AM, scotty said:

I have 3 Amiga 500s and a 3000.  One 500 is my original from the 80s.  The second I got at a flea market.  No idea where I got the 3rd.   Gonna have to sell some and get an ST(e)

 

If you like 16 bits computers such the Amiga 500, a STE would not dissapoint you.

 

All ST/E video adapters are 50/60 Hz capable, due to this is selected by a register writing.

Video output is not dependant on the CPU speed or bus speed

 

However, there are software capable to run at 60 Hz,

and many other titles changed to 50 automatically,

while other titles provide you the option to select between 50 or 60 Hz

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by masteries

[351cougar]

there were things that would complain about 'too many accs's ' not enough memory or some such crap. even though you had 2+ Mb of ram. In the end it was mostly about coding assumptions, tos versions and not assuming updates. Alot of things were fixed over the years, but original software / images , will have the issues they had when released.