Chrodegang Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Well, find me an average coder then, ...Tell me why there's never been such a thing as MWP scrolling before! even in the so-called polish 'scene'....or invented by such 'superior' coders like you named. Do you really try to compare yourself with coders like Philip Price or Archer McLean? Just the ideas and code of the copy protection schemes developed by Philip Price seem to be a lot more complicated than your whole scrolling engine (which is not bad!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 (edited) Great! Emaky you are without doubt the biggest, most arrogant arsehole I have ever encountered in this community, in fact ANY online community I have participated in. I am NOT belittling any of the games being attempted right now, Space Harrier, Yie-ar Kung-fu, IK+, some have even been completed (for instance the great Castle Crisis) - all amazing work - FANTASTIC even! And its great to see people ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING, so its sad that MUX is leaving the field as he was on the verge of another great addition to this community... My failure was to try, and find no market - the A8 was dying and so the company and projects died. No way to make a return on the outlay could be found. I nearly lost my shirt over the whole deal, but I survived and can demonstrate my work even to this day - over 14 years later... "Having chances without using them, isn't a very good example for a discussion", well pardon me Mr Know it all - don't you question what I have done, I missed no opportunity to try. I am not going to repeat it all over again a decade later, for me that is in the past... Good luck to all those TRYING to make things! And for those who prefer to endlessly criticize, to flop around on the surface of making games, but doing nothing like some fish out of water - to you Emaky I say goodbye you pompous little man... One last thought for one and all, actions speak louder than words, here is my softography (completed and canned alike): A8 - Contagion, Z-Force, Zero Wars, Project Xanthien, Menace, Shadow of the Beast, Last Ninja II, Pacland, Paperboy, Barbarian, Ghosts and Golbins ST - Paintz Amiga CD 32 - Gunship 2000 PC - XCOM:Terror from the Deep, XCOM: Apocalypse, Transport Tycoon, Abomination, Who Wants to be a Millionaire, Lord of the Rings: Return of the King, Lord of the Rings: The Third Age, Black and White II PS1 - XCOM:Terror from the Deep, Who Wants To Be A Millionaire Dreamcast - Who Wants To Be A Millionaire PS2 - Legacy of Kain: Defiance, Lord of the Rings: Return of the King, Lord of the Rings: The Third Age Gamecube: Lord of the Rings: Return of the King, Lord of the Rings: The Third Age Xbox: Lord of the Rings: Return of the King, Lord of the Rings: The Third Age Edited October 11, 2005 by Jetboot Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Great! arrogant arsehole .... And for those who prefer to endlessly criticize, to flop around on the surface of making games, but doing nothing like some fish out of water - to you Emaky I say goodbye you pompous little man... At least the best you have, is your vocabulary. Eigentlich schade, dass man sich mit solchen Leuten überhaupt auseinander setzen muss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 A8 - Contagion, Z-Force, Zero Wars, Project Xanthien, Menace, Shadow of the Beast, Last Ninja II, Pacland, Paperboy, Barbarian, Ghosts and Golbins Well... this list says more than 1000 words. ST - Paintz Amiga CD 32 - Gunship 2000 PC - XCOM:Terror from the Deep, XCOM: Apocalypse, Transport Tycoon, Abomination, Who Wants to be a Millionaire, Lord of the Rings: Return of the King, Lord of the Rings: The Third Age, Black and White II PS1 - XCOM:Terror from the Deep, Who Wants To Be A Millionaire Dreamcast - Who Wants To Be A Millionaire PS2 - Legacy of Kain: Defiance, Lord of the Rings: Return of the King, Lord of the Rings: The Third Age Gamecube: Lord of the Rings: Return of the King, Lord of the Rings: The Third Age Xbox: Lord of the Rings: Return of the King, Lord of the Rings: The Third Age 946161[/snapback] Especially in Return of the King, one can see that 100s of people were involved in this. And you were something like the 20th of 25 Graphics Coordinators (I don't want to see the scrol at the end for the exact count again). Well... One good man can compensate several bad ones and you weren't named first. @Analmux It seems you made the right decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted October 11, 2005 Author Share Posted October 11, 2005 (edited) . . . Edited March 25, 2007 by analmux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Emkay - please.........we dont have 1000s of folks in the 8bit community. Jetboot and Analmux have made excellent contributions IMHO and Im sure others would agree. Lets agree to disagree and move on - pushing out is not the right answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrodegang Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 .besides, that copyprotection code wasn't that complicated either... You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. My english isn't even good enough to explain the concept, so I wouldn't blame you if you didn't understand it for 100%. What makes you sure that I didn't fully understand your ideas and sourcecode? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 (edited) Emkay, just to keep my reputation honest and wholesome, and to keep your incorrect information clear to those who read this. I am a game designer and a producer, and have fulfilled this role (along with some artwork and some coding) on ALL these games, usually as the project lead or senior member of the team. FYI - I was the design lead on Return of the King for all the game Characters behaviour and animation. On The Third Age I was the Animation Designer and Producer, one of one in both instances. I produced, designed and choreographed the motion capture of the stunt performers, the output of a team of animators and the talents of several coders and designers to put on screen an army of fighting, biting and flying monstrosities. I designed and implemented and wroked with a team of very talented people to create their AI, the data pipelines, the tools to create the data, their rigs and their skeltons, their motion trees, edited their animations and ultimatley created their feel both as enemies and through the controller the infamous protagonists. I take my work very seriously, whatever role I assume, and please keep your inaccurate and just plain incorrect assumptions to yourself. As to the teams being huge, yes ROTK was - some 230 souls in all, but don't underestimate any ONE key player in that team. Don't confuse a team of some 25 seniors/leads with the army of people implementing their decisions. Clearly you know NOTHING of software development in this day and age... And I am proud to have worked on every one of these games - games that have sold in excess of 20 million units all told... sTeVE Edited October 12, 2005 by Jetboot Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Emkay - please.........we dont have 1000s of folks in the 8bit community. Jetboot and Analmux have made excellent contributions IMHO and Im sure others would agree. Lets agree to disagree and move on - pushing out is not the right answer. 946196[/snapback] Well I'm not the cause that Analmux won't write here anymore, but Now I can understand him. It seems he had the better sense about "what's going on in this forums", Or I still tried to ignore it. JBJ still had to be silent and everything was ok, and it seems he was the cause why all my doing wasn't accepted by "original" members. New members, polish guys and others were well talking partners... after he went off. Now the old "war" is there again. The difference is that JBJ still is thinking he's the best, because he was randomly a part of a big project. I just have fun to do the best possible even in my spare time. I doubt he will ever get off his horse, so he still may stay there. I really had fun with AA for the last 2 years, but I don't know how to manage his personal insults against me in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 What ROT! I did my A8 work from the back room of a small shop, with my own money paying peoples wages and begging for contracts from the big players! I know it a lot harder and a lot more "costly" of my time and life than you ever do with your jacked up hobbyist elitism! It wasn't a game to me, it was my livelihood, trying putting that on the line for your love of making games! What sticks in my craw is the way you ATTACK my professional credentials "JBJ still is thinking he's the best, because he was randomly a part of a big project" - sorry mate I was HIRED because I am good at my job, have unique skills and years of experience, nothing more, nothing less! I was hired to head up key design aspects of a multi-million dollar franchise, nothing random there my ill informed friend... sTeVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 come on guys.... calm down...i hate these flame wars... i thought it was over... i appreciate JBJ and i learned that emkay is not as arrogant as he might write with his english... why not simply pick up skype and talk to each other and you will see that he is just a normal atari fanatic with no musical taste ( ;) ) but with some knowledge. but JBJ don't take everything too serious what might pop up... i have console games you were envolved in and not every of the EA franchise is brillant... hahahaha... just kidding i love the 1st LOTR and the 3rd age... if i will go through the title bit for bit i'll gonna find something what i will tell you "i would do better"... ... but i have to admit the only PS2 title were i was involved in terms of design & producing lwas the music game "eJay clubworld"... http://ps2.ign.com/objects/567/567893.html so... i can tell you stories how this title should be and how it was at the end of the day... (100 pages design doc...) so take a beer, JBJ & emkay, and have fun... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybernoid Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 (edited) i appreciate JBJ and i learned that emkay is not as arrogant as he might write with his english... I agree. English is not his first language, so his posts are very direct and to the point... I don't believe that Emkay is trying to be rude. so take a beer, JBJ & emkay, and have fun... 946302[/snapback] Here. Here. How about we all agree to take a beer at 16:20 GMT tomorrow! <- closest to rolling on the floor drunk Edited October 11, 2005 by Cybernoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Fandal_ Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Stop this war! Please... My Atari heart is bleeding... F. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted October 11, 2005 Author Share Posted October 11, 2005 (edited) . . . Edited March 25, 2007 by analmux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pps Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 (edited) Hey what´s going on here?!? I feel very bad oscillations here... This is a hobby of us all. There shouldn´t be such senses. Everybody who is active here, helps to keep our beloved ATARI alive. Even if he only posts. It´s a pity if someone is leaving us - all the same who! Greets from Berlin Germany, PP´s/STARSOFT Berlin Edited October 11, 2005 by pps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 PP...welcome back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plastron Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Ok I guess I can add one small part to all this and thanks Steve for the support he gave to the 8-Bit if only people had purchase the game Plastron we could have done much more but it was at the wrong time I guess just near the end of the life of the 8-Bit in the UK. But Steve tried to keep it alive my part was easy I just had to write a game. Steve and has team had the hard job of turning that into a product. I like a lot what has been done now with the A8 but you have to think things have moved on a lot since then we did not have the advantage of the knowledge of modern computers back then and were in away in my case never educated in computers we all had a book and a few friends to give support. Plastron was coded in a bed room and Andy Mill’s dining room a couple of nights a week and Sunday mornings. I would say if you look back at what was about then it looked and sounded quite good. We were starting to play with new ideas and software sprites but there was no demand for the products so we gave up and went back to programming for fun. Thanks Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 and plastron looks very good!!! how did you painted the gfx? on 16bit machine or on paper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Well, allthough I should be quiet, because I am not at all a programmer I have the following opinion: I prefer any standard (old fashioned) A8 program "out of the book" (like Emkay said) as long as it is finished - versus/over a modern A8 program "using modern techniques" (like MCS, G2F, MWP, etc.) but being just a demo or playable demo and unfinished... Ok, Yie Ar Kung Fu so far seems to be the most promising new program and its very playable (has a lot of levels and only few bugs). But come on guys, allthough IK+ looks very good, it is just a game-demo, not very playable (not very finished). Space Harrier is great (yes, it is!), alas it is only some kind of playable game-demo with currently 1 Level. Boinxx, well, is also only some playable demo yet (not finished). The same counts for SMB now (unless Analmux is so kind and finishes it), a nice playable demo - but again: an unfinished game project !! And err, I hate unfinished game projects !! Better a standard and finished game, than a modern and unfinished one... we already have too many unfinished programs... and err, it looks like especially those *unfinished* programs using modern techniques are getting more and more. Maybe these modern techniques are taking just too much time, too much efforts, etc. etc. and sooner or later the programmer(s) realize(s) that the A8 is only a hobby and not a major job or a sense-giving life... so hey, I personally can live with standard and old-fashioned programs (as long as they are finished)... -Andreas Magenheimer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 (edited) Mux, Beast uses a fully overscanned screen - 48 bytes per modeline - plus a buffer at either side of 2 bytes - so 52 bytes. If scrolling left to right then basically the righthand buffer is to unpack into and on the left to allow a reversal of direction without unpacking for 8 frames (we were doing a 50fps scroller, for logic to play catch up... Our unpacker just unrolled our compressed world data into the buffer (left or right) depending upon the scroll direction. We also supported up to 6 indepedent scrolling zones, at different speeds each with their own data... The important design factor is that we kept all of the game in in RAM at all times. All the levels for the game, all the enemy sprites, all the music, everything BUT no loading, no bankswitched carts, nothing - one single load of data. Since we KNEW that we had to release on cassette... sTeVE P.S. please remeber this was nearly 15 years ago, if I am a byte wrong here or there forgive me Edited October 12, 2005 by Jetboot Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pps Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 PP´s...welcome back! I´ve never really been away... Most every day I check the forum, but I have actually not enough time to get into my planned projects You know - THE WORK !!! The rare spare time I have, this days is preserved for the family. Hope to have more time soon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plastron Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 and plastron looks very good!!! how did you painted the gfx? on 16bit machine or on paper? 946444[/snapback] Well i have to say Richard Munns was the guy that did the gfx mostly on the A8 Charactor editor which was moded from an Antic program i think and in his head no tools other than we had on the 8 Bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbmeeks Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Ok, I haven't read through all 12 pages of replies so what's the status? I kinda read that it's OFF?? I hope not. Was really looking forward to it. cbmeeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint Thompson Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 It's been a nice 4 months, heh.... Any new 'news' regarding this! I've been anxiously awaiting for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 When you say it was in a "game sampler" do you mean a playable preview or the entire game on a compilation? It was a compilation of Kick Off, Spherical, Grand Monster Slam and Hard'n Heavy . Hard to say for sure, but it sounds like someone sneaking it out through the back door and hoping Nintendo wouldn't notice. =-) 712910[/snapback] Just a small correction. This was the compilation I bought : http://hol.abime.net/4941 Circus Attractions, Spherical, Grand Monster Slam and Hard'n Heavy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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