TMR Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 If I am remembering correctly, it was the Level design, that Nintendo was concerned with.When Giana Sisters was dropped from the commercial market and went freeware, no one cared about it any longer. Giana isn't freeware, the versions floating around online are technically pirated. The sequel Hard 'n' Heavy was also taken off the market and it bears far less resemblance than the original. Same goes for another Rainbow Arts title Katakis on the C64 and Amiga, they got into legal hot water with Activision because it was an R-Type "clone" (the levels aren't particularly close in shape, just general look). It's revised final release Denaris only managed to get "around" the legal problems because the coders swapped the levels a little and, more importantly, agreed to take over the official conversion of R-Type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 If I am remembering correctly, it was the Level design, that Nintendo was concerned with.When Giana Sisters was dropped from the commercial market and went freeware, no one cared about it any longer. Giana isn't freeware, the versions floating around online are technically pirated. The sequel Hard 'n' Heavy was also taken off the market and it bears far less resemblance than the original. Freeware is perhaps the wrong word. But when the creator of a software drops off his rights, to keep away any indictments, how would anyone call this? Greyware? The "fact" with Hard'n Heavy is a bit weird. Because it had been on the Market, and I bought it in a Game-Sampler for the AMIGA in 1992. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Freeware is perhaps the wrong word. But when the creator of a software drops off his rights, to keep away any indictments, how would anyone call this? Greyware? Well, there's no such thing as greyware or abandonware as the law goes. In this case the game was removed from sale because it was judged too close to Nintendo's intellectual property so, at least from what i understand, that means it's still copyrighted in itself because it contains original work (code, reworked graphics and whatever was original, music) but the infringement is because it was released. i seem to remember that Paramount went after people who produced Star Trek games a while back despite the titles being shareware (i think some were freeware, but i'm not sure) simply for the use of their trademarks. i've half expected a knock on the virtual door about my own little infringement for years now but it seems that Lucas and co. are a little easier going about tribute code... The "fact" with Hard'n Heavy is a bit weird. Because it had been on the Market, and I bought it in a Game-Sampler for the AMIGA in 1992. i've not played either for an age now but i believe that the C64 version was closer than the Amiga to the game to the plumber's antics (there were even some early screens in Zzap! 64 with the Giana sprites in) so it might be that the Amiga version was reconsidered for a later release - i've never seen it personally, but i know the U.K. missed quite a few Amiga titles like that. When you say it was in a "game sampler" do you mean a playable preview or the entire game on a compilation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 When you say it was in a "game sampler" do you mean a playable preview or the entire game on a compilation? It was a compilation of Kick Off, Spherical, Grand Monster Slam and Hard'n Heavy . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 When you say it was in a "game sampler" do you mean a playable preview or the entire game on a compilation? It was a compilation of Kick Off, Spherical, Grand Monster Slam and Hard'n Heavy . Hard to say for sure, but it sounds like someone sneaking it out through the back door and hoping Nintendo wouldn't notice. =-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fröhn Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Freeware is perhaps the wrong word. But when the creator of a software drops off his rights, to keep away any indictments, how would anyone call this? Greyware? i'm not sure if rainbow arts dropped their rights. i never heard about this. but even if they did it doesn't matter as long as nintendo doesn't drop their rights too... and remember, the reason why giana was taken of the markets is that rainbow arts didn't own 100% of the rights to the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 and remember, the reason why giana was taken of the markets is that rainbow arts didn't own 100% of the rights to the game. Well... perhaps it's my fault, but I never heard about a judgement that gave Nintendo the rights on a game called "The great Giana Sisters". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 and remember, the reason why giana was taken of the markets is that rainbow arts didn't own 100% of the rights to the game. Well... perhaps it's my fault, but I never heard about a judgement that gave Nintendo the rights on a game called "The great Giana Sisters". Nintendo didn't get the rights, but at the same time Rainbow Arts were judged to be producing something that was attempting to trade on Nintendo's IP so they weren't allowed to continue selling it... at least, i think that's how it worked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Nintendo didn't get the rights, but at the same time Rainbow Arts were judged to be producing something that was attempting to trade on Nintendo's IP so they weren't allowed to continue selling it... at least, i think that's how it worked out. Seems Rainbow Arts had a bad advocate.... At least today Nintendo would have lost the judgement, because there are no patentings (yet a copyright on the Game Super Mario Brothers) and the game was built from Scratch with no adaption of any code from the original (?). It's like: A junior is creating his beloved game, giving it freely to his friends. (German)Law says : It's OK. Then Nintendo comes along and tries to put money out of the junior, because every copy of the game, was a loss for Nintendo, due to the not expected selling of the (not real) original? What about asking the Pope to judge over Nintendo, because they use the male form of "Maria" that is attempting to trade on the bible's IP.... making huge amounts of money? Actually you can create a whole O.S. that is looking similar to Windows and no one will ever be judged ... So there is and there was never a point to judge over Rainbow Arts and their "Great Giana Sisters" , but the lawyer must have been a very dull one (belonging to Software-Rights) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Seems Rainbow Arts had a bad advocate.... At least today Nintendo would have lost the judgement, because there are no patentings (yet a copyright on the Game Super Mario Brothers) and the game was built from Scratch with no adaption of any code from the original (?). It was judged an infringement of that copyright because it bore a resemblance (which is fair enough, it was trying to) the same "look and feel" is what clobbered Katakis when Activision kicked up a fuss. Doesn't matter that the code and graphics were done from scratch, they were attempting to imitate something else and trade on that imitation. It's like: A junior is creating his beloved game, giving it freely to his friends. (German)Law says : It's OK. Then Nintendo comes along and tries to put money out of the junior, because every copy of the game, was a loss for Nintendo, due to the not expected selling of the (not real) original? Not really, the kid in this example isn't trying to make money from his reproduction of someone else's work and Rainbow Arts were trying to sell what they'd done. Still, the act of coding a clone from scratch of a game but basing it on someone else's design is the same as going out and making a film based on someone else's story and indeed direction; these days a bunch of costumed nutters could (and indeed probably do, to be honest i'm not entirely sure i want to think about it!) go out with a digital camcorder and film a slavish copy of Star Wars with reasonable success, George Lucas wouldn't be in the wrong to say "you're ripping off my movie, stop it!" to them if they gave it away because people could have "the Star Wars experience" without paying. Actually you can create a whole O.S. that is looking similar to Windows and no one will ever be judged ... That's possibly because Windows itself isn't an original piece, it's based on quite a few pieces of prior art going as far back as the Xerox PARC kit. Nintendo have what i believe is called "brand equity" in the distinctive characters of Mario, Luigi, the Kooper Troopers, Princess Peach and so forth, equity they've been very keen on maintaining in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted October 4, 2004 Author Share Posted October 4, 2004 Nothing will stop me from finishing the Mario clone, because I've already spent a lot of time coding. Distributing it is a totally different problem. First of all, I'm not planning to 'trade' (earning money). If people want to play the game, then I could even release it as 'beta version' instead (or unfinished game) or whatever. The game could eventually spread itself, when a few people have it (I can include the file in a PM on this forum). What about this: Most people that have an atari but don't have a nintento could get the mario clone for free, so nintendo could say "now they won't buy the game from us". But that's just nonsense, because those people didn't have a NES/SNES-console anyway. It could even have the opposite effect. When people who have never played mario at all see my clone, they might want to play the original game and buy a NES + mario. After all, I can even say that I didn't program&distribute the game at all, and say that someone else distributes the game (I could make another login-name on the forum and use an anonymous hotmail-address). Finally I could change the name and graphics, but the level-design bears too much resemblance. Then I can always use the game-engine to create a new game. For example the MWP scrolling method is definitely not IP of nintendo. So I'm not that worried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Before i start, the following is supposition and i'm partly playing Devil's advocate - but i feel these points are worth making and this is the best way i can see of doing it... What about this:Most people that have an atari but don't have a nintento could get the mario clone for free, so nintendo could say "now they won't buy the game from us". But that's just nonsense, because those people didn't have a NES/SNES-console anyway. The original SMB is currently available as part of the NES Classics series for the Gameboy Advance, i'd say there was a pretty good chance the rest of the series will make their way over at some point. that makes it current rather than a NES/SNES and cart combination. It could even have the opposite effect. When people who have never played mario at all see my clone, they might want to play the original game and buy a NES + mario. And they may be encouraged, since they didn't pay for your version, to go out and seek a ROM and an emulator; that could quite easily be seen as harming Nintendo's market if/when a NES Classics SMB 3 appears. After all, I can even say that I didn't program&distribute the game at all, and say that someone else distributes the game (I could make another login-name on the forum and use an anonymous hotmail-address). And that helps how...? Liability doesn't just evaporate so, assuming you could remain anonymous (and don't be fooled, Hotmail and a fake account won't do that) then Atari Age is very much public and, as hosts of the file, they'd be liable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Fnerk...! A little actual research on my part (gotta love Google) tells me that there's a version of Super Mario Bros. 3 already available for the Gameboy Advance, so it's probably best to consider it current. http://www.play.com/play247.asp?pa=stts10&...BA&title=124371 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atariboy Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 They've all already seen GBA ports. Mario Bros., Super Mario Bros. 1-3, Super Mario World, and Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 so why is nintendo not getting against all the sites with atari5200 and 2600 and 800 versions of mario bros, donkey kong and donkey kong jr? all of them are available on GBA... even included as games in the Mario games for my lovely GBA SP... could be their revenge as atari denied to distribute their nes in the states in the 80s (and/or refused tetris as well...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 so why is nintendo not getting against all the sites with atari5200 and 2600 and 800 versions of mario bros, donkey kong and donkey kong jr? all of them are available on GBA... even included as games in the Mario games for my lovely GBA SP... As a guess, it's because they haven't noticed... but i'm not sure how the law stands, since (in a lot of cases) the products were licenced and developed by another party i'm not entirely sure who it falls to to protect that product... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sack-c0s Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 so far as GGS is concerned doesn't anyone thing the advertising line 'the brothers are history!' was pushing their luck more than a little? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 Poblems - eh? Rename Mario to Dario, change a little main character amke some things that will differ the game form the original et voilla! Lame joke i know. But i think that Nintendo is more busy with its own problems than what's happened on 8bit platform (maybe they've just forgotten about these) Don't worry, be happy! :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nateo Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 To tell you the truth, I don't know if most people at Nintendo even acknowledge Atari's existance, if you've ever read issues of Nintendo Power or been to the NOA website, they sort of treat themselves as if the entire industry began with them and the Famicom in 1983. It'd only be by pure chance that a NOA executive would make it's way to this forum, and even less so onto this topic. And what about Nintendo of Japan? Well, when they see this site, I'm willing to bet they're thinking about the good 'ol game of Go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad2600 Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 Poblems - eh? Rename Mario to Dario, change a little main character amke some things that will differ the game form the original et voilla! Lame joke i know. But i think that Nintendo is more busy with its own problems than what's happened on 8bit platform (maybe they've just forgotten about these) Don't worry, be happy! :wink: Which is if you ever carry this project to a cart release, I'll be one of the ones looking to snatch it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godzilla Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 WOW! This looks great. I can't wait to see it for real! I hope it finds it to cartridge somewhere so we can support the developer :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjk7382 Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 Which is if you ever carry this project to a cart release, I'll be one of the ones looking to snatch it up. I thought he already said somewhere in this thread that he was only going to release it as a disk image. (even in the begining) Yet antoher reasong to get and sio2pc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 To tell you the truth, I don't know if most people at Nintendo even acknowledge Atari's existance, if you've ever read issues of Nintendo Power or been to the NOA website, they sort of treat themselves as if the entire industry began with them and the Famicom in 1983. It'd only be by pure chance that a NOA executive would make it's way to this forum, and even less so onto this topic. And what about Nintendo of Japan? Well, when they see this site, I'm willing to bet they're thinking about the good 'ol game of Go. That is one thing that bothered me about corporate press releases, and the company I work for does it as well. They try to make it sound like they are the be all, end all, most innovative, creative, hard working, no talent exists anywhere else, best company in the world. As if no one else in the world existed. It's annoying and frankly, untruthful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted October 7, 2004 Author Share Posted October 7, 2004 Ok. but don't worry, I will continue. Indeed I will only release atr-images on the www (or email/PM), however I'll not use ATARI-AGE webspace. If someone else would like to put images to a cart, that would be cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdie3 Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 When? Hopefully soon. I can't imagine juggling something like this with all of my family and work responsibilities. I bet you are a really busy guy. Either way.. looking forward to it. Is there a seperate site from AA that marks the progress of this project? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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