Anyone care to check something for me. . . .

[Kirk_Johnston]

9 minutes ago, jeffythedragonslayer said:

Yes.  Reverse engineering is a little easier in Mesen 2.

Aha. OK, I'll go get that version. Cheers.

 

Edit: Maybe I'm missing some obvious thing here, but I can't actually find a version that's just a simple download where you can run it as a .exe or even just install and run it via the then installed .exe or similar. The version that's downloading from GitHub doesn't even have an obvious [to me] way to install or run it, just looks like a bunch of files and folders that I have zero clue what to do with. Is there a version I can just download and use as is without any faff and fuss?

Edited December 21, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston

[jeffythedragonslayer]

8 minutes ago, Kirk_Johnston said:

Aha. OK, I'll go get that version. Cheers.

 

Edit: Maybe I'm missing some obvious thing here, but I can't actually find a version that's just a simple download where you can run it as a .exe or similar. The version that's downloading from GitHub doesn't even have an obvious way to run it, just looks like a bunch of files and folders that I have zero clue what to do with. Is there a version I can just download and use as is without any faff and fuss?

Did you try:

 

https://www.mesen.ca/

[Kirk_Johnston]

Just now, jeffythedragonslayer said:

Did you try:

 

https://www.mesen.ca/

OK, so it's not called Mesen 2, but it's the same thing? Anyway, it appears to be installed now after a bit of faffing around installing additional NET runtime files for whatever they do. Coolio.

[jeffythedragonslayer]

8 minutes ago, Kirk_Johnston said:

OK, so it's not called Mesen 2, but it's the same thing? Anyway, it appears to be installed now after a bit of faffing around installing additional NET runtime files for whatever they do. Coolio.

It doesn't shove the fact that it's version 2 in your face, but if you go to the Help->About menu it will tell you the version number.

[Kirk_Johnston]

4 minutes ago, jeffythedragonslayer said:

It doesn't shove the fact that it's version 2 in your face, but if you go to the Help->About menu it will tell you the version number.

OK, got it. Is the Mesen-S (beta) an earlier version of normal Mesen then, or is that actually a kinda parallel/alternate version?

Edited December 21, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston

[jeffythedragonslayer]

5 minutes ago, Kirk_Johnston said:

OK, got it. Is the Mesen-S (beta) an earlier version of normal Mesen then, or is that actually a kinda parallel/alternate version?

No, Mesen-S is a different project than the old Mesen.  Mesen-S stands for "SNES EMulator" backwards.

Edited December 21, 2023 by jeffythedragonslayer

[Kirk_Johnston]

Just now, jeffythedragonslayer said:

No, Mesen-S is a different project than the old Mesen which stands for "SNES EMulator" backwards.

Ah, OK. I assume I can just stick to the normal Mesen going forward then, and check for any updates on the main Mesen site every once in a while.

 

Just tried the new Mesen/Mesen 2, and yeah, I like the way it shows the sprite tiles in the sprite viewer more out the gate.

 

So, do you happen to know any way I could skip to that level on Donkey Kong Country 3?

[jeffythedragonslayer]

6 minutes ago, Kirk_Johnston said:

Ah, OK. I assume I can just stick to the normal Mesen going forward then, and check for any updates on the main Mesen site every once in a while.

 

Just tried the new Mesen/Mesen 2, and yeah, I like the way it shows the sprite tiles in the sprite viewer more out the gate.

 

So, do you happen to know any way I could skip to that level on Donkey Kong Country 3?

I'd try to find a 100% save file, maybe like this?

 

https://www.thetechgame.com/Downloads/id=34772/donkey-kong-country-3-dixie-kongs-double-trouble.html

[Kirk_Johnston]

2 minutes ago, jeffythedragonslayer said:

I'd try to find a 100% save file, maybe like this?

 

https://www.thetechgame.com/Downloads/id=34772/donkey-kong-country-3-dixie-kongs-double-trouble.html

OK. Cheers for the tip.

[jeffythedragonslayer]

14 minutes ago, Kirk_Johnston said:

OK. Cheers for the tip.

Yeah, another trick that's useful when you're just trying to get to a particular point in the game is to raise the emulation speed:

 

https://www.mesen.ca/docs/configuration/emulation.html

 

As a former college roommate of mine observed, you're a lot more willing to do side quests when the action is faster!

[Kirk_Johnston]

16 minutes ago, jeffythedragonslayer said:

Yeah, another trick that's useful when you're just trying to get to a particular point in the game is to raise the emulation speed:

 

https://www.mesen.ca/docs/configuration/emulation.html

 

As a former college roommate of mine observed, you're a lot more willing to do side quests when the action is faster!

Yeah, I used the fast forward method to get that save point in FF3 quicker.

[jeffythedragonslayer]

14 minutes ago, Kirk_Johnston said:

Yeah, I used the fast forward method to get that save point in FF3 quicker.

Faster Fantasy 3 

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Watching the game's auto demo run it seems to stick to Mode 1 with 2 4bpp layers and 1 2bpp layer. The auto demo shows quite a few different level types so I'm willing to bet that water level is also just using Mode 1. The only time I'm seeing the mode change is during the intro when it goes to Mode 7 for the scaling Rare logo. What makes you so convinced that level must be using an 8bpp mode? Even the spots that would be easy to use the 8bpp mode (Static maps screens, the title screen, etc.) are all still using Mode 1 and 4bpp.

[Mittens0407]

3 hours ago, Kirk_Johnston said:

I'm not entirely sure if it is or isn't an example of 8bpp visuals during actual gameplay

If you have to run the game in an emulator to check if you should praise it for being 8bpp or not, then 8bpp probably doesn't make much of a difference lol. If you can't tell just by looking at it, what's the point?

[Wayler]

 

 

[jeffythedragonslayer]

25 minutes ago, Wayler said:

 

 

 

[jeffythedragonslayer]

.

Edited December 21, 2023 by jeffythedragonslayer
deleted double post

[turboxray]

On 12/21/2023 at 6:19 AM, Kirk_Johnston said:

and see if this is actually an example of the SNES running a fully playable platform game with a lovely line-scrolled 8bpp foreground layer, a nice line-scrolled 2bpp or 4bpp background layer, a smooth HDMA'd backdrop gradient, along with the lovely animated player(s), enemies and pickups, etc:

 Since we never got a follow up, I popped open the game myself. I played through this crappy game all the way up to that level haha (god, this game is boring). I can safely report that what RARE hates even more than mode 0, is plain ol' 8bpp modes. It's a fact. So no, while the game does all sorts of complex techniques with main/sub and color math... it does NOT touch regular 8bpp modes (and for good reason). RARE really loves mode 1 (also for good reason).

 

 Actually, the only interesting thing about that water level (besides that it lacks the game's typical 3 layer setup)... is that the HDMA does a 60hz cycle on the backdrop color. So 32 shades of blue are flickered every other frame to give the illusion of up to 64 shades. Pretty sure they're all pure blue, but the point is that it does the flicker-y crap. That was unexpected (and low brow for RARE.. I would have expected something more complex like an XOR pattern to go along with the HDMA updates. But no flickering needed; this would have made it look better on 50hz displays too).

 

On 12/21/2023 at 6:19 AM, Kirk_Johnston said:

And, if not, it just shows how good you can make visuals using the more standard modes look on SNES.

Weird. Just like people have been telling you over the years that almost anything on SNES can be done without 8bpp (and all the vram it wastes)

Edited December 24, 2023 by turboxray

[jeffythedragonslayer]

11 hours ago, turboxray said:

So no, while the game does all sorts of complex techniques with main/sub and color math... it does NOT touch regular 8bpp modes (and for good reason). RARE really loves mode 1 (also for good reason).

It's too bad they didn't call the color math screens dom/sub.

[Wayler]

40 minutes ago, jeffythedragonslayer said:

It's too bad they didn't call the color math screens dom/sub.

Your stupid oneliners are now neatly falling into the creepy-category once you decided sexual innuendo is the way to go. And the choice of an under-age-looking anime girl avatar only makes it worse. 

 

Nice cesspit this has turned into. 

[jeffythedragonslayer]

18 minutes ago, Wayler said:

Nice cesspit this has turned into. 

I came not to bring peace but a sword art online.

[Aaendi]

On 11/17/2023 at 9:56 AM, turboxray said:

I've known you since you bragged about coming up with a "brand-new" compression scheme all by yourself (i.e. RLE), as DragonBoy. I know you've been so obsessed with this for the past 13 years, but if you take a step back for a minute (and maybe realized who you're actually quoting here).. you'd probably understand that was a "slant" against some of the SNES developers back in the day, not the hardware. Come on, now. It was literally the experience we got back in the day on the SNES. So my mark isn't that far off hahah.

 

 But if you want to get technical with your comparisons here, you're clearly not a profession developer. I've seen snippets of your code. Unless you've miraculously changed, your stuff lacked design, modularization, etc - your stuff is full of literals and hardcoded things instead of standard/professional design (even lacking labels, using direct addresses). You write code like a rom hacker with no background in software engineering, and you've also been working on these same demos for like 10 years. That is NOT representative of a professional development environment or development cycle back in the day. I never once called you out on it, though, because your goal wasn't to be a professional software developer.. it's this obsession of pushing the SNES. And that's fine. Completely fine! But understand there's a difference between pushing the system without care or any sane coding standards, and actually developing code/engine/etc. There's a pretty big difference between hardcoding some literals or fixed code because you have years to spend tweaking it... and actually writing code/design (functions/data structures) that are strongly decoupled and allow pivoting of design during development. That stuff adds overhead, is slower in execution, etc - but with the trade-off that it's more flexible in design and refactoring/reuse (which was way more important to a development company and team back in the day... and still is today!). That's a side that rarely, even in the homebrew scene, that ever gets talked about. When talking about performance, etc - that context is important but is rarely in the discussion. And not once have I've ever seen you acknowledge this. Your focus has always been, performance in the context of "how can I push the system to extremes", and never what performance means in the context and perspective of professional software development BITD. 

I'm still convinced it's impossible for one person to build a game faster than a full team of developers, and I still have no clue where you get this idea that I use hardcoded literals for everything, or that I don't reuse code or that I'm trying to never waste a cycle ever.

Edited August 30 by Aaendi

[Aaendi]

On 11/17/2023 at 9:56 AM, turboxray said:

Come on, now. It was literally the experience we got back in the day on the SNES. So my mark isn't that far off hahah.

Heck, not even that is true.  SNES games didn't even have slowdown until the mid 2000s when ROM hackers came along and added slowdown to every SNES game because "Wikipedia told them too."

[Wayler]

Oof, this thread. Did you really have to bump this up? 

 

And now I'm doing it too. Oof. 

[GoldLeader]

 

 

 

 

 

              No