+Biff Burgertime Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 As a video game player, I can fully appreciate the "Wow!" factor of making old consoles do incredible things by stuffing new processors into the carts that are 100x more powerful than the actual hardware you plug the cart into. As a programmer, I can fully understand why some would consider it 'cheating.' That's far beyond my abilities as a lowly vb.net programmer on modern machines with virtually-endless resources. But for the hardcore guys that write code for these ancient pieces of hardware, it seems they enjoy the challenge of squeezing as much as possible out of their very limited resources. I mean, Atari 2600 only has 128 bytes of RAM?? Not kilobytes, bytes! That's unfathomable to me. Those project are one of many reasons I love lurking AtariAge. It gives me an appreciation for things I used to simply take for granted. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidD Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 Now I'm amused by the concept of selling a Super Game Boy with a Pokemon cart installed, sealed within a new external shell. "Pokemon Red/Blue SNES" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostdragon Posted November 5, 2023 Share Posted November 5, 2023 On 9/9/2023 at 6:08 AM, WavyGravy said: I don't think it's as malicious as that. I think what we have is someone who wants very badly to be an expert but doesn't want to do any of the actual work involved in becoming one. I think it's possible he worked at the places he said he did, but I also think it's possible he got fired, so he likely wouldn't have been credited in that case. I mean, can you imagine being this guy's manager? The guy could be perfectly competent and nobody would have time for his bullshit. And looking at his portfolio, outside of some actually quite nice 3D animation work, I can't see that he has anywhere near the competency required for anyone to look past his toxicity. We might simply have another Jane Whittaker or.. https://shinobiman.proboards.com/thread/9878/andrew-holdroyd-desert-exclusive-interview Remember claims of 7800 Paperboy finished delivered, then people he had worked with on various Sega titles, saying his claims weren't quite as he made out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostdragon Posted November 5, 2023 Share Posted November 5, 2023 (edited) On 9/9/2023 at 12:05 AM, TrekkiesUnite118 said: His resume is public on his blog. He claims to have worked as an artist and animator at Rare from 1999-2000 on games like Donkey Kong Contry GBC, Banjo Kazooie: Gruntie's Revenge for GBA, etc. But he's not listed in the credits for those games or any Rare Games. The next two companies I can't find if they even exist anymore or if they ever existed. The games I can't find any evidence of them being released save for one that looks to have been an educational teamwork oriented game for Mac and PC. After that he has that he worked for Rockstar from 2008-2010 on GTA V, GTA IV DLC, and an unreleased game called Agent. The only game he's actually listed in the credits for though is GTA IV Ballad of Gay Tony. There is a Kirk Johnson credited for GTA IV The Lost and the Damned, so maybe there was a typo there. If we look at GTA V though there's no Kirk Johnson or Johnston. So the only thing we can confirm is a Kirk Johnson/Johnston did work at Rockstar on 2 GTA IV DLCs, whether or not that's actually him or not we don't know. The rest either doesn't hold up to scrutiny or can't be verified because the companies no longer exist, the games never released, or the games were obscure eduntainment titles that I can barely find evidence of their existence. Not gonna make any accusations or anything, but those are the claims and those are the game credits we can actually look up. So make what you want out of that info. I guess the only real way to get full transparency on Kirk's actual involvement on the projects he claims, is by treating them in the same way, we did with Jane Whittaker and others.. Reach out and contact other individual's who worked on the games in question, but that's an extremely time consuming process to start with, plus.. folks who've left the industry often really don't like being contacted, especially not to verify claims others made.. And Kirk, here is a little bit of background information you might like to take on board, before accusing the community here of trolling and talking nonsense. I invested far more time than was healthy, years ago, chasing up claims made by industry folk such as: Martin Hooley (Imagitec Design) Jim Gregory (Handmade Software) Andrew Holdroyd (Tiertex) Jane Whittaker (various) who pulled the wool royally over Retrogamer Magazine staff in an interview, one which they never publicly apologised for.. To name but a few. Interviews had to have disclaimers put on them, very embarrassing.. I've seen Luca of Unseen64, fooled, by some moron taking credit for a Croc game which never existed, ditto PlayStation hardware, far more powerful than the actual hardware. I've seen Jason Kingsley foolishly claim he codex Star Raiders on the Atari 8-Bit computers.. 🙄 A Jr artist take credit for Jim Sachs work on Amiga Defender Of The Crown and again, RG magazine issue no apology.. Sure on here, Jonathan Court of Jaguar Gotcha! and Mike Diskette of Jaguar Syndicate and Theme Park get unfair treatment.. But they were in the minority. The one key thing I have seen on here with the greater community, is by god, they know their stuff, they back up their claims with actual games running on actual hardware, they keep the systems alive. Sure, we've had a few absolute tools promising a 3DO Road Rash, then something along lines of Saturn Wipeout, style experiences on the Jaguar, deliver nothing.. There's another prominent tool out there, miss quoting his own industry interviews to his megre YT following 🙄 But no, with personal experience behind me, I fully understand why the community is currently extremely skeptical, who can honestly blame them?. We have sadly been here so many times before. Folk are simply sick to the ruddy back teeth of being taken the proverbial garden path. Edited November 5, 2023 by Lostdragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidGameR186496 Posted November 5, 2023 Share Posted November 5, 2023 2 hours ago, Lostdragon said: I guess the only real way to get full transparency on Kirk's actual involvement on the projects he claims, is by treating them in the same way, we did with Jane Whittaker and others.. Reach out and contact other individual's who worked on the games in question, but that's an extremely time consuming process to start with, plus.. folks who've left the industry often really don't like being contacted, especially not to verify claims others made.. And Kirk, here is a little bit of background information you might like to take on board, before accusing the community here of trolling and talking nonsense. I invested far more time than was healthy, years ago, chasing up claims made by industry folk such as: Martin Hooley (Imagitec Design) Jim Gregory (Handmade Software) Andrew Holdroyd (Tiertex) Jane Whittaker (various) who pulled the wool royally over Retrogamer Magazine staff in an interview, one which they never publicly apologised for.. To name but a few. Interviews had to have disclaimers put on them, very embarrassing.. I've seen Luca of Unseen64, fooled, by some moron taking credit for a Croc game which never existed, ditto PlayStation hardware, far more powerful than the actual hardware. I've seen Jason Kingsley foolishly claim he codex Star Raiders on the Atari 8-Bit computers.. 🙄 A Jr artist take credit for Jim Sachs work on Amiga Defender Of The Crown and again, RG magazine issue no apology.. Sure on here, Jonathan Court of Jaguar Gotcha! and Mike Diskette of Jaguar Syndicate and Theme Park get unfair treatment.. But they were in the minority. The one key thing I have seen on here with the greater community, is by god, they know their stuff, they back up their claims with actual games running on actual hardware, they keep the systems alive. Sure, we've had a few absolute tools promising a 3DO Road Rash, then something along lines of Saturn Wipeout, style experiences on the Jaguar, deliver nothing.. There's another prominent tool out there, miss quoting his own industry interviews to his megre YT following 🙄 But no, with personal experience behind me, I fully understand why the community is currently extremely skeptical, who can honestly blame them?. We have sadly been here so many times before. Folk are simply sick to the ruddy back teeth of being taken the proverbial garden path. Well, with Jon Court it was more to do with the credits of Cannon Fodder on Jaguar not being avaiable at the time he appeared (which i later added a few years ago), due to the game's difficulty in later missions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostdragon Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 Kirk has sent me a PM, informing me I have now joined the many on his ignore list 😂 The PM had the heading of.. "Having visited your linked blog where you interviewed that guy who duped you, I can see why you're paranoid, but . . ." A few things there Kirk.. 1) I don't have a blog, never had one, never will have one, rarely even post on here as it is. 2)That guy who duped me.. well many industry figures tried using interviews conducted by many people, all it got them was found out and exposed as absolute charlatans... All I did (which was more than the industry magazines have done) is make people aware the interviews I conducted were used by the individuals in question mislead the community. 3) Labelling me as paranoid holds as much water as your claim your only here to discuss SNES work. The community here have found you wanting Sir, it's that simple. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostdragon Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 10 hours ago, KidGameR186496 said: Well, with Jon Court it was more to do with the credits of Cannon Fodder on Jaguar not being avaiable at the time he appeared (which i later added a few years ago), due to the game's difficulty in later missions. But he was still known for his work on Amiga Bob's Bad Day. Kirk by comparison is far harder to tie-in with some much bigger name titles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffythedragonslayer Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 14 hours ago, Lostdragon said: I guess the only real way to get full transparency on Kirk's actual involvement on the projects he claims, is by treating them in the same way, we did with Jane Whittaker and others.. Reach out and contact other individual's who worked on the games in question, but that's an extremely time consuming process to start with, plus.. folks who've left the industry often really don't like being contacted, especially not to verify claims others made.. If it puts this issue to bed, I'm all for it, so long as you do the work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WavyGravy Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 Ah, see, we've misunderstood! He wants "authentic" discussion, not discussion of authenticity. Alas, what fools we've been! Welcome to the list, anyway! With you on board, I think we finally have enough of us to get a rugby team going! 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostdragon Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 The burden of proof here really falls squarely on the shoulders of Kirk, to prove his claims are correct.. We've asked for evidence he worked on key titles at Rare and why he's not listed anywhere in the credits.. Kirk has described our requests as "derraged crap" and has put many of us on ignore, he states he will no longer engage here. Hence the PM to myself, rather than engaging me publicly. He's the one claiming to be an animator, a programmer, a producer and a consultant He's the one saying he's "been working in virtual reality" for the last 13 years... With so many credited, it just strikes up a red flag that Kirk would be committed from not just one, but two titles, whilst at RARE. Donkey Kong Country Game Boy Color Team: B Aldous R Beanland A Collard E Fischer D Hinkson G Hood C Pigas J Restemeier G Richards J Simmons K Wood D Wise Rare Staff R Bullimore M Carter J Cook L Munton D Murchie D Parkinson G Phelps G Price J Silke R Smith G Stevenson H Ward D Wong All credits are sourced from the Japanese releases. https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/Donkey_Kong_Country/credits Banjo-Kazooie: Grunty's Revenge GBA Team: Dermot Fanning Ryan Firchau Peter Hentze Desmond Hinkson Gavin Hood Jamie Hughes Chris Pigas Paul Rahme Ryan Stevenson https://www.mobygames.com/game/10345/banjo-kazooie-gruntys-revenge/credits/gameboy-advance/ I'm personally not going to disturb any of the folk listed above, the behaviour exhibited by Kirk, deflection and attempted silencing of people who dare question his supposed industry achievements... He's had far too much attention as is.. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidGameR186496 Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 7 hours ago, Lostdragon said: Kirk has sent me a PM, informing me I have now joined the many on his ignore list 😂 The PM had the heading of.. "Having visited your linked blog where you interviewed that guy who duped you, I can see why you're paranoid, but . . ." A few things there Kirk.. 1) I don't have a blog, never had one, never will have one, rarely even post on here as it is. 2)That guy who duped me.. well many industry figures tried using interviews conducted by many people, all it got them was found out and exposed as absolute charlatans... All I did (which was more than the industry magazines have done) is make people aware the interviews I conducted were used by the individuals in question mislead the community. 3) Labelling me as paranoid holds as much water as your claim your only here to discuss SNES work. The community here have found you wanting Sir, it's that simple. With that behavior, how long Kirk will keep posting here until he does something that pisses off everybody on the fourm that will get him banned? I'm not straight up asking him to be removed but that behavior he has with other AA users will eventually lead him to be kicked out of the forums... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Biff Burgertime Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 Regarding Kirk's "games" ... I made a parody image poking fun at Tommy Tallarico's proficiency at spamming video game forums: About 24h later, Gaterooze actually made the damn game, holy shit! https://www.reddit.com/r/Intellivision_Amico/comments/110686o/someone_asked_for_a_tommy_typing_tutor_game/ Knowing nothing about Unity, I asked how it was possible for such a quick turnaround: Quote Happy to talk about it any time. The drag & drop in Unity for object configuration and UI makes things a breeze - assigning sprites, sounds, etc with a click, laying out levels, updating parameters in real time while testing, and so on. The Prefab system is excellent. With some of these hater games I'm also able to copy/paste code snippets from my previous games, so I don't need to recreate things like score saving, menu flow, etc each time (this one I used the Hans game I did a while ago as a basis). Combine that with using a library of assets I've collected from humble bundles and such for prototyping, then things are pretty rapid, I can just focus on coding the core gameplay. You probably have a lot more coding experience than me, but this is the most helpful online course I took when learning - it covers both the Unity editor and C# in a very practical way, letting you build a few games as you go along. So when Kirk says stuff like "I'm a programmer, I've made many games, I just can't code for the SNES" does that just translate to "I combined drag+drop tools with stuff others created to make some barebones demos?" 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atariboy Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 Up to 15 people now. He'll have to hope that he doesn't bump up on some limit in the forum software at the rate the list is growing, lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTrust Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 I have no idea what this dude did that has everyone so up in arms, but can somebody just quickly explain one thing: is any of the stuff he's proposing possible? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 14 hours ago, WavyGravy said: Ah, see, we've misunderstood! He wants "authentic" discussion, not discussion of authenticity. Alas, what fools we've been! Welcome to the list, anyway! With you on board, I think we finally have enough of us to get a rugby team going! I feel your post is lacking a lot of authenticity, you need to self ignore yourself now. @KidGameR186496 Good luck, seems someone here loves him because even banning a moderator from being seen somehow didn't get his ass handed to him which is mind blowing. The fact that he's now shitting on qualified programmers, better yet, qualified industry programmers and making bullshit claims of doing things that just didn't happen because people know this is a line of crap, still somehow doesn't have him wiped out of existence. It makes me question if he's here just at this rate as a living billboard of stupidity as a warning to others. Because in the end, his dumb shit is being so well refuted by people who can actually think, code, implement and get results who will both snark AND explain in detail how it works and why he's stupid in his goomba game maker orgies is the only answer I can come up with. @MrTrust He's basically a deranged SNES fanboy who lies and has delusions of grandeur. He claims all this shit that patently will NOT work will work, because he can cobble some "programs" together using a mix of Game Maker and some form of photoshop to make youtube clips of his amazing ideas the SNES can do. Problem is, 90% of what he says will work, won't, it'll halt the system, break the system, display shit on a shingle vs what he mocks up in fantasy land and he will die on a fucking cross arguing it will much like some turd little kid with fingers in the ears screaming NANANANA I can't hear you at the same time. And when he's told prove it, or why he's wrong in intelligent detail, you're blocked. He still reads it, because he makes shitty comments proving it. It's a game to him because he's a mentally disturbed attention seeker that probably should be on some level of low level medication and seeing a therapist. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atariboy Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 You can't actually put a moderator on ignore. It's just Kirk being Kirk when he claimed that he had. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffythedragonslayer Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 41 minutes ago, Atariboy said: You can't actually put a moderator on ignore. It's just Kirk being Kirk when he claimed that he had. But you can put a fuel rod on ignore. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidGameR186496 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 6 hours ago, Tanooki said: I feel your post is lacking a lot of authenticity, you need to self ignore yourself now. @KidGameR186496 Good luck, seems someone here loves him because even banning a moderator from being seen somehow didn't get his ass handed to him which is mind blowing. The fact that he's now shitting on qualified programmers, better yet, qualified industry programmers and making bullshit claims of doing things that just didn't happen because people know this is a line of crap, still somehow doesn't have him wiped out of existence. It makes me question if he's here just at this rate as a living billboard of stupidity as a warning to others. Because in the end, his dumb shit is being so well refuted by people who can actually think, code, implement and get results who will both snark AND explain in detail how it works and why he's stupid in his goomba game maker orgies is the only answer I can come up with. @MrTrust He's basically a deranged SNES fanboy who lies and has delusions of grandeur. He claims all this shit that patently will NOT work will work, because he can cobble some "programs" together using a mix of Game Maker and some form of photoshop to make youtube clips of his amazing ideas the SNES can do. Problem is, 90% of what he says will work, won't, it'll halt the system, break the system, display shit on a shingle vs what he mocks up in fantasy land and he will die on a fucking cross arguing it will much like some turd little kid with fingers in the ears screaming NANANANA I can't hear you at the same time. And when he's told prove it, or why he's wrong in intelligent detail, you're blocked. He still reads it, because he makes shitty comments proving it. It's a game to him because he's a mentally disturbed attention seeker that probably should be on some level of low level medication and seeing a therapist. If anything, Kirk is being a detriment to the SNES homebrew scene rather than being helpful, but chooses to behave like that 'cause we're still apparently in the 16-bit console wars against the Mega Drive fans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk_Johnston Posted November 7, 2023 Author Share Posted November 7, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, MrTrust said: I have no idea what this dude did that has everyone so up in arms, but can somebody just quickly explain one thing: is any of the stuff he's proposing possible? Yes. But why not ask some of the SNES experts in here to see if they can explain/prove to you exactly how/why this specific concept and demonstration wouldn't work within the SNES' limitations for example: And I'll leave this here for your own further reading too, as it also covers some aspects of the example above: https://inceptionalnews.wordpress.com/2023/09/09/how-my-eye-melting-snes-mockup-could-be-done/ Let's see what they come up with to convince you it's impossible on SNES, that all my examples are impossible on SNES, and that I'm clearly duping everyone as part of some nefarious master plan to destroy the Internet or something. . . . And, obviously, this one certainly works, since it's literally running on a SNES emulator: But, again, let's see what the experts say to convince you I've pulled the wool over everyone's eyes, that I have no clue what I'm talking about, that everything I've shown is simply impossible on SNES, that everything in my CV is a fabrication, that I am obviously the Devil incarnate, and whatever else they claim. . . . Edited November 7, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots.genoa Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 22 minutes ago, Kirk_Johnston said: But why not ask some of the SNES experts in here to see if they can explain/prove to you exactly how/why this won't work for example: Actually, if you didn't ignore their posts, you would see that SNES experts explained numerous times how/why this won't work. 😅 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk_Johnston Posted November 7, 2023 Author Share Posted November 7, 2023 (edited) 55 minutes ago, roots.genoa said: Actually, if you didn't ignore their posts, you would see that SNES experts explained numerous times how/why this won't work. 😅 Well, let's see it again with this specific latest version of the platformer example for the benefit of this new guy: And, certainly, let's see an explanation for how my example running on a SNES emulator is all just an illusion. . . . Edited November 7, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Biff Burgertime Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 40 minutes ago, Kirk_Johnston said: And, obviously, this one certainly works, since it's literally running on a SNES emulator I'll just drop this here... Note for anyone just discovering this circus: he obviously didn't make that himself, he relentlessly nagged everyone in the SNESdev scene until one said "challenge accepted!" ...and the other "actually running on a SNES emulator" clip he likes to show off is just a crude Super Mario World hack - that again, wasn't made by him and looks noticeably crappier than his GameMaker mockup. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTrust Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 4 minutes ago, roots.genoa said: Actually, if you didn't ignore their posts, you would see that SNES experts explained numerous times how/why this won't work. Where? All I ever see is this: 1. Dude posts yet another weird video of Alucard walking back and forth over some scrolling background. 2. Tanooki absolutely loses his fucking mind and starts ranting and raving here, there, and everywhere about how this guy is ruining all things related to the SNES. 3. 16 pages of grousing about what an asshole Kirk is. 4. Page after page after page of people pointing out that Game Maker isn't SNES assembly. Now, I don't know anything about the SNES hardware, so I have no way to vet his claims. If this stuff really is impossible and he continues to devote this much time and effort into "proving" it, then he's an idiot. If he's an idiot, why do you all continue to pay so much attention to this? If it's a spamming the boards issue, I see way more real estate getting taken up with you guys endlessly bitching about him than with this... whatever the hell this is he's working on. 44 minutes ago, Kirk_Johnston said: But, again, let's see what the experts say to convince you I've pulled the wool over everyone's eyes, that I have no clue what I'm talking about, that everything I've shown is simply impossible on SNES, that everything in my CV is a fabrication, that I am obviously the Devil incarnate, and whatever else they claim. . . . Okay, but why don't you just learn to program an SNES if this is so important to you? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk_Johnston Posted November 7, 2023 Author Share Posted November 7, 2023 (edited) 28 minutes ago, MrTrust said: Where? All I ever see is this: 1. Dude posts yet another video of Alucard walking back and forth over some scrolling background. 2. Tanooki absolutely loses his fucking mind and starts ranting and raving here, there, and everywhere about how this guy is ruining all things related to the SNES. 3. 16 pages of grousing about what an asshole Kirk is. 4. Page after page after page of people pointing out that Game Maker isn't SNES assembly. Now, I don't know anything about the SNES hardware, so I have no way to vet his claims. If this stuff really is impossible and he continues to devote this much time and effort into "proving" it, then he's an idiot. If he's an idiot, why do you all continue to pay so much attention to this? If it's a spamming the boards issue, I see way more real estate getting taken up with you guys endlessly bitching about him than with this... whatever the hell this is he's working on. Okay, but why don't you just learn to program an SNES if this is so important to you? I've also explained that a bazillion times in here in the past, so not going to go over it again, suffice to say the direct SNES programming part is not the part for me, as is and should be my free choice. And, just to provide some context, all the things I'm posting are simply to demonstrate various examples of things you can/could do on SNES, much of which wasn't especially common but imo shows off a few cool features and effects that are often somewhat specific/special to SNES of all the consoles of that generation, and it's just something I'm sharing online in this SNES-specific sub-forum with ideally other people who are either genuinely thinking about or currently working on SNES projects to also consider, as [the royal] you do. The reason there's multiple examples is also simply because there are different builds and things progress and so on, and I'm just putting out the newer versions and such as I feel like doing so. And they reason they have characters like Alucard or whatever in them is just because it's easier to use already created assets to show off quick ideas/concepts than to build every asset entirely from scratch myself each time. Plus, it's kinda fun doing it with characters and artwork and other stuff people already recognise too. On my part, it's not any more complicated or insidious than that. Edited November 7, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bent_pin Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 6 minutes ago, Kirk_Johnston said: I've also explained that a bazillion times in here in the past, so not going to go over it again, suffice to say the direct SNES programming part is not the part for me, as is and should be my free choice. Then what do you hope to achieve by talking about programming that you don't understand? When I saw your threads, I thought you wanted to get something done, but it looks like you just want anyone but you to put in the work. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I can't see any point beyond that. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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