has anyone ever gotten VIC-20 Speedscipt 3.0 and Practicalc WAV files to successfully run via the DATAMASTER?

[newTIboyRob]

So I've spent various times over the past week trying to get both Speedscript 3.0 and Practicalc plus programs to run from cassette on the VIC-20. I've successfully converted the TAP and/or PRG files to WAV files using different programs, got those to send the data successfully to the Radio Shack workhorse CCR-81 tape recorder (a great little machine by the way, I use also with my TI) and have had what seems to be promise but no actual viable results. Sometimes syntax errors, e.g. "FOUND PRACTICALC" then in line 37125 syntax error (listed that, was garbled info), usually LOAD errors, e.g. instead of "FOUND SPEEDSCRIPT" it says "FOUND P190" which then results in a LOAD ERROR as well, and on an on..no clean, complete programs in either case will properly load and run.

 

Using:

 

• early model VIC-20 NTSC with 16K RAM extension cart inserted
• Datamaster cassette recorder with fresh Maxell UR 90 tape
• TAP of Practicalc Plus, which I then converted to WAV from:

        http://www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/vic20/utilities/16k/index.html

• Speedscript 3.0 PRG , which I then converted to TAP then WAV from:

        http://www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/vic20/utilities/8k/index.html

• Audacity, and getting plenty of signal when opening the files there, sometimes reducing gain a DB or 2, coming out of the PC's front headphone jack with a standard 3.5mm audio cable right into the recorder's mic input.  Have tried recorder's side volumes at 7 ish, 7.5 ish, 8 ish, 8.5 ish .... all with various Audacity gain related adjustments... and all to no avail.  I play back the data and it sounds clean for lack of a better term to describe the deranged tea kettle whistling and video game-like data sounds, though I am not sure if the breaks I hear in the signal continuity are part of the proper flow of the program or if the data is supposed to be one continuous stream, which at least audibly, it isn't as it cuts out in a few spots.

 

I've read a couple of posts on other internet searches from people who have tried and ultimately had the same results, with quite a bit of these LOAD ERRORS, but have yet to come across anyone who has correctly gotten these 2 programs to tape and back to run on the VIC-20 as a complete error-free program, i.e. the way it should be running. It makes me question perhaps the legitimacy of the internet files, or maybe I just haven't hit the exact sweet spot yet; I can't tell at this point as you can see I have tried a plethora of "takes."

 

So my questions- before I just type the mountainous Speedscript 3.0 program from its book-, obviously are:

1) Has anyone, ever, had luck getting those 2 above files, or any other links of those 2 files either, to load and run successfully on the VIC-20 NTSC? 

2) Is there a way for someone to test to see if those above internet files are the issue, or perhaps can offer a fresh source of these files I don't know of thus far?  I wasn't quite sure here.  What I do know is that it's quite frustrating to come this far, in that data does get to tape and plays back, but ultimately renders the 2 programs useless.  Suggestions?  Tips?

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[newTIboyRob]

I would even take Simplicalc on cassette for the VIC-20, but when I DL'd the Zip files, I found nothing there.  Also saw an interesting one just now on cassette, might be related to the spreadsheet program, called "Home Inventory" VT1012... but wasn't able to see it in action. Is anyone able to DL that and post a screen shot here to see how it looks when running?

 

[Virtualsky]

I don't have the required 16K RAM expansion for my VIC-20 to try and get these files onto a tape.  But, I did try running them in  VICE and they both work fine (with 16K REU).  See screenshots below.  So, I can at least confirm the files are okay..

 

[newTIboyRob]

Thank you as that was very, very helpful. I appreciate you doing that for me.  So now we know those files are fine, the issue is either in the conversion to WAV,  WAV to tape, or playback from tape.

 

1) Do you think inverting the waveform would do anything?  I have yet to try out. 

 

2) Short of that, I don't know what else to try... unless it is a Datamaster some kind of timing issue?   (I know mine works with the professional VIC-20 tapes and with sample programs in basic I 've tried which have all saved, loaded and run successfully.)   I also have the Datasette. Maybe try another round using that as the playback source?  

Edited September 7, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[Virtualsky]

Darn, I wish I could give you a definitive answer like, "just try X and you'll be good!"  The thought that came to me was, if I could run these programs on my VIC-20, I would probably try loading the PRGs into the computer (I could use my Retroswitch Flyer to do that directly), then save them to tape with the Datasette.  This would take out all of the guesswork with the whole PRG to WAV process.  If that worked, then I could say with confidence that is was just finding that "sweet spot" for the recording. 

 

At this moment, this is what the problem sounds like to me.

[newTIboyRob]

Oh, I don't have anything like Retroswitch Flyer, or any other gadgetry unfortunately. I just have my stock VIC-20 NTSC, a Datasette and a DATAMASTER.... and tapes that are trying to bring me something, but instead, just disappointment

 

You mention loading the PRGs into the computer... do you mean loading those into my PC or into the Datasette?  (I thought the Datasette needed to be receiving a WAV file if it was going to attempt loading in the finished program on the VIC-20?)

 

Any next thoughts?  I feel like you are right with me here though, which is awesome  

[Virtualsky]

Yes, you're right about using a WAV file to record to tape for the Datasette.  I meant loading the PRG into the the VIC20 directly, like I do with my C64 and 128.  If it weren't for the fact that these programs need  the REU, I would just do so on the VIC20.  But, without that REU, it isn't going to work... not enough for me to load then save to Datasette anyway.

 

I don't know, can a person load an ML program for the VIC20 into a C64 and then save it to tape and then take it and run on a VIC20?  If so, I could try that and send you the tape.

[Virtualsky]

I found this:  https://arthurguru.users.sourceforge.net/software/wav2vic/wav2vic.html

Could this be your "missing link"?  This converts WAV files to VIC ready formats.

 

It may be more for turning tapes into digital files, but there may be some hints in here to help with your WAV files, too.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Virtualsky
update for clarity

[Casey]

I *think* that may be possible.  An ML monitor could probably do it, but you may be able to do it also by loading it with ,8,1 into the 64 and then changing the POKEs for the start and end of BASIC to correspond with the start and ending addresses needed for the VIC-20 and then doing a SAVE "file",1,1 to save to the tape.

 

The extra ,1 tells the tape to write the header so that it doesn't relocate when it is loaded back into the VIC-20.  I've never tried this, but it seems possible.

[Virtualsky]

4 minutes ago, Casey said:

I *think* that may be possible.  An ML monitor could probably do it, but you may be able to do it also by loading it with ,8,1 into the 64 and then changing the POKEs for the start and end of BASIC to correspond with the start and ending addresses needed for the VIC-20 and then doing a SAVE "file",1,1 to save to the tape.

 

The extra ,1 tells the tape to write the header so that it doesn't relocate when it is loaded back into the VIC-20.  I've never tried this, but it seems possible.

Interesting.  I may give this a try in VICE and see what I can come up with.

[newTIboyRob]

You guys both ROCK, even if we don't find the solution here, thanks!  In the mean time, I will look into the above.  For some strange reason, I just think the DATAMASTER is involved in this issue. I am going to first try the DATASETTE with my original WAVs and see what occurs while you guys investigate.

 

Just as a side note:  I also have a C64, and double 1541 drives if they need to come into play here.  So even if anyone can do it on your end successfully, you could tell me the exact procedure, and I could then just replicate it on my end, sparing you the actual tape sending to me (though I would appreciate that too, should I not have a way to do this on my end.)

Edited September 7, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[newTIboyRob]

Well, I was wrong about the DATAMASTER causing issues here I think, because the DATASETTE with the VIC-20 (which I know works otherwise) also is showing load issues.

 

My DATASETTE results:

 

Speedscript 3.0... it found nothing, not even a header this time.

Practicalc, take 1:  it found the PRACTICALC header, but then that syntax error in line 37215 as I've seen before occurred

 

retweaking Practicalc's WAV file led to....  FOUND  {but there was no header at all this time}... it loaded the longest, teasing with promise... until... ERROR. So I got curious and did a LIST which resulted in: 239  SYS4621 

That was a new one!.... I am waiting for this secret "code" to tell me I am gonna win the lottery or something, not these friggin' error codes, and different ones at that!

 

I would try Casey's above POKE method, but I'm thinking if I can't even get a usable transfer to tape yet, shouldn't I just hold off on that?  I will next examine VirtualSky's link.

 

This is not only a mission now, it is a dang challenge. These 2 programs eventually have to work here, c'mon.

[Casey]

The VIC-20 can use a 1541 just like a C64 can...  Perhaps just use that?

[newTIboyRob]

In that link, I got as far as unzipping, when the Windows protection window appeared to protect my PC from the unknown publisher of the wav2vic.exe app.  Do we know this is safe?  (showing Run anyway or Don't Run)

Should I run it or not?

[newTIboyRob]

I did think of that Casey, thanks. But if I can't get the WAV to load correctly via either cassette recorder anyhow, how could I get it to disk and then back to tape for the VIC?

 

[Virtualsky]

I can't speak for the safety of the WAV2VIC software. I also haven't been able to get very far with my C64 trying to save these to  cassette.  I'm just getting errors of one or another .  I just don't seem to have the know-how/skills to work may way around it.

I've been able to successfully save both programs to a disk image (see attached) and LOAD and RUN them from disk (using the emulator).  So, it would be easy enough for me to convert the .d64 image to an actual floppy disk.  But to do this yourself, you will need an SD2IEC device of some sort.

If you could load them from a disk, you could then save them to a tape if you really wanted them on the Datasette.  If you don't wish to invest in an SD2IEC device, I could mail you a disk with the programs on it if you don't mind reimbursing me for the shipping costs.  But, having a modern way of running downloaded content from the Web on your Commodore is pretty handy.

However, with a bit more tinkering, you may get your WAV files to work on your Datasette.  I know people have been able to do it.

vicoffice.d64

Edited September 8, 2023 by Virtualsky
corrections

[Virtualsky]

6 hours ago, newTIboyRob said:

retweaking Practicalc's WAV file led to....  FOUND  {but there was no header at all this time}... it loaded the longest, teasing with promise... until... ERROR. So I got curious and did a LIST which resulted in: 239  SYS4621 

That was a new one!.... I am waiting for this secret "code" to tell me I am gonna win the lottery or something, not these friggin' error

Believe it or not, this is actually a good sign. The program itself is in machine language.  This line of BASIC points the system to memory location 4621, where Practicalc actually resides.  So, at least part of the LOAD is working... until the error is encountered anyway.

[newTIboyRob]

hmm, your 2nd to last post was really kind, and your last post was really encouraging.  That said, I wonder if I should keep on with the tinkering.

[Virtualsky]

Hey, we can all use some friendly encouragement and support from time to time.  If I can't offer anything to address the problem, I  can at least cheer you on!     As long as it doesn't drive you crazy, apart from time, you're not going to lose much from tinkering on.  Hey, you might even get it to work!