Dedicated Atari VGA upscaler/scan doubler on ebay. Thoughts?

[Beeblebrox]

Just spied this on ebay. 

Atari VGA 800 800XL 1200XL 65XE 130XE TV VIDEO UPSCALER SCANDOUBLER NEW

 

Very costly. Just curious as to either anyone's first hand experience with this, or just the tech itself.  It seems very overpriced. 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266409530433

 

Interestingly no pics showing it actually working/plugged into and Atari displaying. 

 

Spec:

 

APOLLO ATR --> VGA Upscaler for your ATARI!

What better thing to finally connect your ATARI to any monitor with VGA input? 

Now with APOLLO ATR all this is possible. 

It is capable to recognize if your ATARI is PAL or NTSC! APOLLO ATR guarantees the VGA connection of your ATARI to a monitor/TV with VGA input. 

 

 

APOLLO ATARI CHARACTERISTICS

 

• Multiple resolutions available up to 1920 x 1200 key selectable
• PAL/NTSC compatible with automatic recognition
• Operating LED
• Reset / screen resolution / video filter key selectable

 

 

We've tried to make the upscaler as simple as possible...and we succeeded!

There are three simple keys:

 

RESET 

If a resolution that is too high and incompatible with your monitor/TV is chosen, simply press this key to auto-configure APOLLO on the first resolution supported by your monitor/TV

 

 

SCREEN RESOLUTION

With this button you can choose the video resolution you prefer..up to 1920x1200!

 

 

VIDEO FILTER

With this button you can choose the video filter that we have stored on APOLLO ATR..choose what you prefer.

 

 

 

ATARI COMPUTERS COMPATIBILITY?All type that has DIN5 video output connector with CVBS...

1. Atari 800
2. Atari 800 XL
3. Atari 1200 XL
4. Atari 65 XE
5. Atari 130 XE
6. And all other ATARI with DIN5 video output (no SECAM!)

 

--> Please consider that ATARI 130XE SECAM & 800XL SECAM are NOT COMPATIBLE!!!!<--

 

DETAILS

 

• APOLLO ATR  has a DIN5 to be connected to the video output of the Atari and a female DB15 HD panel connector to which you will have to connect the VGA cable to go to the monitor/TV (VGA cable not included). Outgoing from the DIN5 connector is a 3.5mm audio jack cable for audio connection to the monitor/TV

• APOLLO ATR is powered by using standard USB cable (AC/DC converter is not included). So you can use a standard smartphone AC/DC adapter

• APOLLO ATR is guaranteed for 1 year. The guarantee is recognized only if in the event of fault/problem it will be received back with the SEAL intact (anti-tampering seal)

 

 

 

[Houdini]

Looks interesting. It would be nice if there were some screenshots of it in action. I'm always a little hesitant when there's no pics...

[+x=usr(1536)]

This isn't a device I've ever heard of before.  FWIW, the same seller also has a C64 version available called the Apollo 64; my guess is that the Atari and Commodore versions are identical internally since both machines output the same video signals.

 

I'd really like to see the internals of one or the other, preferably both.  Not much is coming up in searches for either one, and repurposing a cheap Aliexpress converter and charging €129 for it is not outside the bounds of possibility.

[+x=usr(1536)]

Speaking of cheap Aliexpress converters / upscalers:

 

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255799928860391.html

 

It would likely be very easy to remove some unused components, add in the appropriate cables, and rehouse it in a project box.  Not a bad return on about €4 of investment.

 

Compare the sequence of the buttons on the Apollo to the ones on the Aliexpress unit.  They seem to have the same order, and other things about the form factor line up.

 

Really want to see the inside of the Apollo unit.  Hopefully it's taking its video input from luma and chroma, not composite.

[Rybags]

129 Euro is way too much.  Fair enough to pay a little more than an internal device like Sophia to have portability but not this much.

This Ali Express one looks tempting, if they take PayPal I think I'll risk a shot.

[+x=usr(1536)]

My suspicions that this is an Aliexpress converter in different clothing are strengthening.  No definitive proof is possible without comparing the internals of both the Apollo and Aliexpress units, but the following image (taken from https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805525735745.html) is interesting:

 

 

Omit the AV/SP/PC, PIP, and MENU buttons and the RESET, MODE, and P.P buttons appear in the same sequence on the Apollo; there's even a gap in-between MODE and P.P where the MENU button doesn't appear on the Apollo.  The button functions also line up, at least based on the descriptions of what they do.  Finally, the SVGA port appears to be in the exact same orientation and location on both in relation to the buttons.

 

For $5, I decided to splurge and ordered one.  It'll be here in two to three weeks.  If anyone has one of the Apollo converters and is willing to open it up, I'd love to do a comparison once the Aliexpress unit gets here.

[Havok69]

I have that Aliexpress one, or at least one that looks exactly like it from eBay. It works ok, but not great. For that price, acceptable. For $110 euros, I'd be pissed.

[Beeblebrox]

Thanks everyone. I agree with a lot of your observations. Something doesn't quite feel right here. 

 

I've contacted the seller asking for them to upload photos of it running on an A8 with screen pics. I've also asked (but will unlikely get) photos of the internals/pcb. Hopefully given they "designed this themselves" they would oblige. Then again maybe not. 

 

I too suspect this is a re purposed existing generic upscaler, re-housed and sold for way more money. 

 

Will update y'all if and when I hear from them. 

[Piotr D. Kaczorowski]

5 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

My suspicions that this is an Aliexpress converter in different clothing are strengthening.  No definitive proof is possible without comparing the internals of both and Apollo and Aliexpress unit, but the following image (taken from https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805525735745.html) is interesting:

 

 

Omit the AV/SP/PC, PIP, and MENU buttons and the RESET, MODE, and P.P buttons appear in the same sequence on the Apollo; there's even a gap in-between MODE and P.P where the MENU button doesn't appear on the Apollo.  The button functions also line up, at least based on the descriptions of what they do.  Finally, the SVGA port appears to be in the exact same orientation and location on both in relation to the buttons.

 

For $5, I decided to splurge and ordered one.  It'll be here in two to three weeks.  If anyone has one of the Apollo converters and is willing to open it up, I'd love to do a comparison once the Aliexpress unit gets here.

 

I had something like that in the Atari set when I bought it again in 2020 after many years. You can safely throw it away. The image quality is terrible.

 

[TGB1718]

8 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

My suspicions that this is an Aliexpress converter in different clothing are strengthening.  No definitive proof is possible without comparing the internals of both the Apollo and Aliexpress units, but the following image (taken from https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805525735745.html) is interesting:

 

I have one of those, can't remember what I paid, but probably nothing like the price of this one, I didn't think the picture

was any better than using standard connections, one thing I didn't like was the VGA picture was a smaller square in

the centre of the screen, probably only using about 1/2 of the screen, no amount of changes/selections would improve

this, I did only try it on one monitor, so maybe it's better on a more modern unit.

 

Bottom line, I just don't use it.

[Rybags]

Screenpics can be fabricated.

And in any case, digital photo pics almost always make a turd look polished.

[Beeblebrox]

1 hour ago, Rybags said:

Screenpics can be fabricated.

And in any case, digital photo pics almost always make a turd look polished.

Of course, fabricated pics are a distinct possiblity. However I am more interested in what they come back with as a response. I suspect they'll ignore me totally tbh. Or they'll come up with an excuse about not wanting to disclose the inner workings with a shot of the PCB.... etc etc.  

 

I am not entertaining the idea of buying one at all. Just thought I'd put it out there for comment  

 

Whenever I buy a stated working A8 I from an average Joe seller on Ebay as it were, I always ask, where possible, for a shot of it running on a TV/display. Where they have then provided such images, and on the rare occasion it's subsequently arrived in a non-working condition, the seller has nearly always part refunded.

 

So generally, for a non -retro/new bit of kit like this - I'd expect to see images of one working as standard. Especially for this amount of money. Even if they ended up being fabricated, the absence of them from the outset makes me very dubious, and I'll be avoiding this potentially polished turd!  

 

Gimme a UAV/Sophia 2/VBXE/UGV or SpectreAV any day over an upscaler. (I apprecaite this is rather a generalisation of video tech).

 

Edit: BTW does anyone recall this fake HDD (Walmart) scam I read about last year:

 

https://www.vice.com/en/article/akek8e/walmart-30tb-ssd-hard-drive-scam-sd-cards

Edited September 14, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[xrbrevin]

quote:

PROMO PRICE ONLY FOR SHORT TIME

 

[Beeblebrox]

4 minutes ago, xrbrevin said:

quote:

PROMO PRICE ONLY FOR SHORT TIME

 

ha!! I didn't see that!  Well in that case it's definitely dubious.

 

Let's see if they reply to my request.  (Not holding my breath).

[+slx]

For that amount of money it's a no-brainer to buy a RetroTink instead.

[Beeblebrox]

I agree. Although on the subject of Retrotink, a few years ago when I was looking into it I had to abandon the idea as you can only buy them from the States. So after shipping and import fees it just wasn't something I could afford/justify.

[macsonny]

Seems a bit expensive compared to many other up-scalers on the market. Unless this one does some "magic" then what's the secret to justify the price?

[Beeblebrox]

5 hours ago, macsonny said:

Seems a bit expensive compared to many other up-scalers on the market. Unless this one does some "magic" then what's the secret to justify the price?

I think we've generally concluded these guys are rip off merchants passing existing upscaler tech off as new, dedicated tech. 

 

No reply from them to my queries, so one to ignore. 

[TGB1718]

If it is one of these, then here's a few snapshots that will put you off ever getting one, I hooked up to a VGA monitor using an S-Video

cable as input, a standard 130XE, it couldn't even display it in colour (although I think on an old TV/Monitor that has VGA input I've seen colour)

The streaking is really that bad, I remember on the old monitor the picture was bad and a square about 1/2 of the screen.

 

For comparison, the second picture is the same 130XE, same cable connected via S-Video to my old monitor.

 

 

 

On 9/14/2023 at 7:06 AM, Piotr D. Kaczorowski said:

 

[Piotr D. Kaczorowski]

31 minutes ago, TGB1718 said:

If it is one of these, then here's a few snapshots that will put you off ever getting one, I hooked up to a VGA monitor using an S-Video

cable as input, a standard 130XE, it couldn't even display it in colour (although I think on an old TV/Monitor that has VGA input I've seen colour)

The streaking is really that bad, I remember on the old monitor the picture was bad and a square about 1/2 of the screen.

 

For comparison, the second picture is the same 130XE, same cable connected via S-Video to my old monitor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

With that device, the display appeared as described, but in color. I might have used CVBS instead of S-video. I'm not sure, but the image quality was terrible.

 

 

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

The Aliexpress converter arrived today.  So far, its sole purpose has been to provide images of its internals.  Chances are good that that will be the sum total of its lifetime achievements, but I may trace out the pads on the CON1 connector and see if anything interesting comes of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If anyone knows someone who is willing to open up the Apollo / Atlas converter, please point them towards these pictures.  A Coke says that the internals are the same.

[+x=usr(1536)]

Quick update: it appears that the sum total of information regarding the main IC (marked 'AV775C') consists of people looking for datasheets for it, or mentions in a few reviews.  The datasheets themselves, however, do not appear to be readily-available, though the IC appears to have been used in a few different low-end A/V converters.

 

Interestingly, the basic circuit design has been incorporated into other devices using a different form factor.  This Livejournal post (in Russian) shows essentially the same circuit in a mini-VGA converter.  The main IC is shown to be a MacroSilicon MS1851, but it"s not a pin-for-pin equivalent to the AV775C - the MS1851 has 16 pins per side, whereas the AV775C has 20.  This leads me to believe that while the AV775C may be a knockoff of something, there's more than one hardware revision of this basic design out there and the MS1851 may not be what it was based on.

 

 

Having said that: a bunch of the pins on the AV775C seem to just be sunk straight to ground, so there's no good way of telling what's going on from just a visual comparison.

[+Spancho]

Has anybody already experience with the RetroTink 4K and our Ataris?

https://www.retrotink.com/post/introducing-the-retrotink-4k

 

[woj]

I have the 5X, does what it is supposed to do, output quality is very good. My HDMI screen, which is not 4K, has problems syncing to Atari's 49.97 Hz PAL (or whatever it is) quickly when I use 1-1 frame timing, so on power up I need to wait a bit to see the screen, but this is not RTK's fault. One thing RTK does not deal with is Rybag's hacky interlace mode, but there are like literally 5 programs that use it. What I do not like is the price, including customs and shipping to EU I paid around $500 for 5X, the 4K sounds closer to $1000 in total, way above what I could justify (my both Ataris with all the extensions were roughly that much).

[macsonny]

4 hours ago, Spancho said:

Has anybody already experience with the RetroTink 4K and our Ataris?

https://www.retrotink.com/post/introducing-the-retrotink-4k

 

Whilst it looks fantastic it’s really hard to justify a $750 device that’s all singing and all dancing unless you have a heap of different platforms that need the capabilities.

 

I think you are just better to pay $50-$100 for a device that was specifically designed to integrate with your platform and get fantastic video that way.

 

Of course, just my $0.02 worth.