Imagine a SNES Mini 2 with Killer Instinct 2 as the +1 game. . . .

[Kirk_Johnston]

The game was apparently completed but just never released for SNES, so this is something that could be in the far-reaching realm of possibility, just like how Star Fox 2 eventually came to the original SNES Classic Mini:

 

Here's the arcade version of Killer Instinct 2 for reference:

 

And, yeah, I know KI2 is a Rare property, and Rare is owned by Microsoft these days, but you never know what's possible in the future.

 

If I were some important figure at Nintendo I would be so on that. In fact, my idea for the SNES Mini 2 would not only include Killer Instinct 2 and most of the original games plus a couple of obvious omissions from first time around (Chrono-Trigger, ActRaiser, Super Smash TV and Turtles in Time would be some of my choices), and maybe one or two more unreleased AAA SNES titles if they're out there just waiting for their time in the spotlight, but I would also actually make that mini cartridge slot functional and let the system take new mini games, both compilations of SNES classics and even brand new mini SNES games from indie developers and whomever else, much like we see on Evercade for example. The compilations could even include the likes of FastROM upgrades to games that were originally SlowROM and also minor tweaks where necessary to many of the games as well, maybe as a selectable optional way to play them alongside the intact original versions. I think that could be something very special indeed, especially with the Nintendo and SNES brands behind it. And, to go one step further, I think such an idea would also require Nintendo maybe helping the modern development community a little here too by release proper new developer documentation and even a modern SDK, because that could actually help start a new modern era of SNES development as one of its most beloved consoles of all time, both the hardware and software, which I personally think would be kinda awesome.

 

But, hey, I'm just allowing myself to dream of the possibilities here. And I've actually had this idea before: 

https://inceptionalnews.wordpress.com/2022/10/28/what-id-like-to-see-in-a-snes-mini-2/ 

 

I know a SNES Mini 2 with even just the complete SNES version of Killer Instinct 2 as the +1 game alone would likely fly off the shelves. But, with a few other tweaks here and there along the lines of some of the stuff I've mentioned, I genuinely believe it could even sell well beyond the 5.28 million units the first SNES Classic Mini sold.

 

And if that dream never happens, at the very least I'd just like to see someone [probably one of the Stamper Brothers] release the original Killer Instinct 2 ROM for people to actually see and play, for preservation purposes and all that, right.

Edited Sunday at 03:33 PM by Kirk_Johnston

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I don't think Nintendo cares enough to do another Mini at this point considering they can just put those games on the Nintendo Switch Online service. The Genesis Mini 2 came about more because M2 was curious if they could pull off Sega CD on it, and there's not really cheap hardware that can pull off Saturn and Dreamcast emulation to an acceptable level of quality yet.

[jeffythedragonslayer]

I'm actually against the idea of making the mini cartridge slot functional.  I want a regular sized cartridge slot, like the Atari 2600+.

[Tanooki]

You know the whole reason both those classic consoles existed was the good will bleed happening on the side of the financial one that disaster PiiU caused.  They ran those things out at the right time of year to be sure to clear all the stock as nice gifts for the season because it was quick widely profitable cash to add a bit of help to the life being sucked out by their dead on arrival final console.

[Kirk_Johnston]

48 minutes ago, jeffythedragonslayer said:

I'm actually against the idea of making the mini cartridge slot functional.  I want a regular sized cartridge slot, like the Atari 2600+.

Well, that would be ideal if they just say re-released the original SNES maybe, possibly still with a set of pre-installed games like the current minis or with a bunch of them on a compilation cartridge, or even released a brand new SNES model in 2024 that still took the original cartridges or whenever, but I expect it wouldn't be practical or make sense to have a full-size cartridge slot on a version of a SNES Classic Mini purely because the whole gimmick there is them literally being mini models of the original systems. But, hey, I would totally be up for some official first-party new version of the SNES in some form that actually plays all the original cartridges. Seriously, if Nintendo basically re-released the original SNES but with the 20+1 digital games pre-installed like on the SNES Classic Mini just to get people started, or on a compilation cartridge would actually make even more sense, I would go out and buy that day one. And, given the SNES Classic Mini already sold 5.28 million units, I'm willing to bet there'd be a whole lot of other people up for that too.

 

Yeah, that Atari 2600+ looks like a good take on the general idea: https://atari.com/products/atari-2600-plus

 

Nintendo could basically do the same thing and it would knock it out the park: A New SNES that comes bundled with a 20+2 compilation cartridge (the +2 games could be Star Fox 2 again and now also Killer Instinct 2), with obviously the ability for it to play all the original SNES games (from all regions), any new compilation cartridges, and even and brand new physical indie SNES titles--and job done.

 

So, yeah, I change my idea to that! Lol

Edited Sunday at 07:20 PM by Kirk_Johnston

[M-S]

I think you did a thread almost identical to this one a year ago, most of it has been discussed already. The first SNES mini was released in 2017, it has been almost 6 years. It would be a bad business decision to make a second one now, first they would need to make an N64 mini, then do the Junior/Baby model, which makes sense since it was released in 1997 as a budget console. As for an expandable library or Nintendo making it easier for homebrew developers to make games it's close to impossible, they have been explicit that they don't support people using their original consoles. Which doesn't stop other companies from doing it, Rare and Taito have re-released Battletoads & Double Dragon, so there's a chance of the same happening for KI2.

56 minutes ago, TrekkiesUnite118 said:

 The Genesis Mini 2 came about more because M2 was curious if they could pull off Sega CD on it, and there's not really cheap hardware that can pull off Saturn and Dreamcast emulation to an acceptable level of quality yet.

I wouldn't be so pessimistic about it, there were the mini arcades released between the 1 and 2, and in Japan they are still doing mini micro-computers like the PC-88 and the X68k. With the Dreamcast mini Sega is probably having problems with the VMU, since they aren't going to emulate, and will probably use the PC ports instead. A Master System Mini should have been the next step, it would be way too easy and they could make a limited release for countries where it wasn't as popular.

[Kirk_Johnston]

38 minutes ago, M-S said:

I think you did a thread almost identical to this one a year ago, most of it has been discussed already.

Well, the original point was just about getting Killer Instinct 2 out there, but I figured delivering it with some kind of "SNES Mini 2" would be a great way to go about it, hence the extended post on that.

 

However, as jeffythedragonslayer basically said above regarding the Atari 2600+, I now think Nintendo could basically do the same thing and it would knock it out the park: A New SNES that comes bundled with a 20+2 compilation cartridge (the +2 games could be Star Fox 2 again and now also Killer Instinct 2), with obviously the ability for it to play all the original SNES games (from all regions this time too), any new compilation cartridges, and even and brand new physical indie SNES titles--and job done.

 

That I would most definitely go out and buy day one. And I know literally millions of other people would too. So, yeah, I'll champion that.

 

38 minutes ago, M-S said:

As for an expandable library or Nintendo making it easier for homebrew developers to make games it's close to impossible, they have been explicit that they don't support people using their original consoles. Which doesn't stop other companies from doing it, Rare and Taito have re-released Battletoads & Double Dragon, so there's a chance of the same happening for KI2.

I guess my angle here is that a proper re-release of the SNES or the kind of system as described above, just something that lets people officially play the original and new physical SNES games again, would make this more legitimate and would likely result in a whole load more companies like Rare and Taito re-releasing their original SNES games, as well as encourage indies to release more brand new SNES titles also, which I'd be all for. The Atari 2600+ and the Evercade VS I mentioned previously show a pretty good model for that imo, so that's why I'm focussing on this particular approach.

 

Edited Sunday at 07:40 PM by Kirk_Johnston

[M-S]

This could be possible, but Nintendo's legal team has said they see people using original consoles as the same thing as emulating their games on a computer, which means they don't support it, so far the Nintendo Switch Online games don't include a single homebrew games, not even the ones that are free.

[Kirk_Johnston]

44 minutes ago, M-S said:

This could be possible, but Nintendo's legal team has said they see people using original consoles as the same thing as emulating their games on a computer, which means they don't support it, so far the Nintendo Switch Online games don't include a single homebrew games, not even the ones that are free.

I think the main reason is likely because Nintendo doesn't profit from this. But, much like the Evercade and presumably Atari 2600+ business models, where I just assume they get an up-front fee or cut of the sales or whatever, that's how Nintendo could handle it with an official first party re-release of the original SNES or a New SNES or whatever. And, obviously, they'd be making a whole bunch of profit from selling the physical consoles out the gate too, just like they did with the hugely successful NES Classic Mini and SNES Classic Mini systems. So, yeah, I think that could be a very interesting approach all round.

Edited Sunday at 08:14 PM by Kirk_Johnston

[TrekkiesUnite118]

59 minutes ago, Kirk_Johnston said:

I think the main reason is likely because Nintendo doesn't profit from this. But, much like the Evercade and presumably Atari 2600+ business models, where I just assume they get an up-front fee or cut of the sales or whatever, that's how Nintendo could handle it with an official first party re-release of the original SNES or a New SNES or whatever. And, obviously, they'd be making a whole bunch of profit from selling the physical consoles out the gate too, just like they did with the hugely successful NES Classic Mini and SNES Classic Mini systems. So, yeah, I think that could be a very interesting approach all round.

The simple fact of the matter is that Nintendo in general isn't nearly as accepting of their older systems homebrew community as Sega and Atari are. Where Sega and Atari pretty much take the stance of "As long as you don't put any of our copyrighted code into the games or use our logos and brand, we don't care." Nintendo is fast and loose with the Cease and Desist letters. Where Sega and Atari will go so far as to embrace their classic consoles homebrew scene by including homebrew games and ports in their mini consoles and what not, Nintendo will sue their homebrew scene into oblivion at the first chance. That's just the simple reality of it.

[+Black_Tiger]

1 hour ago, TrekkiesUnite118 said:

The simple fact of the matter is that Nintendo in general isn't nearly as accepting of their older systems homebrew community as Sega and Atari are. Where Sega and Atari pretty much take the stance of "As long as you don't put any of our copyrighted code into the games or use our logos and brand, we don't care." Nintendo is fast and loose with the Cease and Desist letters. Where Sega and Atari will go so far as to embrace their classic consoles homebrew scene by including homebrew games and ports in their mini consoles and what not, Nintendo will sue their homebrew scene into oblivion at the first chance. That's just the simple reality of it.

 

Sega went further than that. When they saw some top quality ports by a homebrewer they offered to buy them and put them on their minis.

[Tanooki]

@M-S When did NOA say they saw using your own hardware basically in their eyes like crime, like emulation is (which it isn't) as that's news to me.

 

Also you're right about Sega they did do more in other realms, the Astro City Mini cab for instance runs the arcade version of Virtua Fighter II.  That would give some level of power behind what they can do at the $100 price point.

 

Either way Sega of any has been historically the most accepting of people doing fan works, even at times they've looked the other way when it has used some of their IP in some respects, as long as the works at least were never for sale from what I've seen.  They're right in doing so, it's free advertising, and since they do sell their old games in the budget dumpster with Steam having like $1 Genesis/MD download game choices and the free or remove ads on mobile (again for a dollar) it's there.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

3 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

@M-S When did NOA say they saw using your own hardware basically in their eyes like crime, like emulation is (which it isn't) as that's news to me.

 

Also you're right about Sega they did do more in other realms, the Astro City Mini cab for instance runs the arcade version of Virtua Fighter II.  That would give some level of power behind what they can do at the $100 price point.

 

Either way Sega of any has been historically the most accepting of people doing fan works, even at times they've looked the other way when it has used some of their IP in some respects, as long as the works at least were never for sale from what I've seen.  They're right in doing so, it's free advertising, and since they do sell their old games in the budget dumpster with Steam having like $1 Genesis/MD download game choices and the free or remove ads on mobile (again for a dollar) it's there.

The Astro City Mini was running Virtua Fighter 1, and when it was on the TV at 720p it had some performance issues vs playing it at the lower resolution on the built in LCD screen. So I'd wouldn't be surprised if Saturn and Dreamcast were a bit too much to pull off with that kind of hardware.

[+Razzie.P]

4 hours ago, M-S said:

This could be possible, but Nintendo's legal team has said they see people using original consoles as the same thing as emulating their games on a computer, which means they don't support it, so far the Nintendo Switch Online games don't include a single homebrew games, not even the ones that are free.

 

22 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

@M-S When did NOA say they saw using your own hardware basically in their eyes like crime, like emulation is (which it isn't) as that's news to me.

 

 

I'm curious about that, too.  I can't imagine why they'd feel (or explain why) that using their original hardware is is the same as emulation.

[Tanooki]

Being logical I guess about it, Nintendo could be salty you're buying old carts and not feeding them money with virtual console downloads before, GBA NES re-releases, the mini consoles, and now the switch services, but they have a huge marketing team and know it would have utterly no real world impact.

 

If anything they'd consider it free advertising.  With how disgusting and sharky shit is now, you could pay 100s for a game, or get them free in the switch online services as part of the basic $20 package.  Again, free advertising.

[M-S]

I think it was when they had shut down a ROM site, they went to court and one of the lawyers on the defense asked if dumping cartridges for emulating was also illegal, they said yes, since it was making a new copy, they didn't win on that part because it would mean using original hardware would also be illegal, to which Nintendo had to agree. I remember seeing it on a video covering the lawsuit, it also had a linked article.

Nintendo is also the only company to set official dates of discontinuation for their consoles, most companies just let developers make their games until they are ready to move into new platforms.

[jeffythedragonslayer]

3 hours ago, M-S said:

I think it was when they had shut down a ROM site, they went to court and one of the lawyers on the defense asked if dumping cartridges for emulating was also illegal, they said yes, since it was making a new copy, they didn't win on that part because it would mean using original hardware would also be illegal, to which Nintendo had to agree. I remember seeing it on a video covering the lawsuit, it also had a linked article.

Nintendo is also the only company to set official dates of discontinuation for their consoles, most companies just let developers make their games until they are ready to move into new platforms.

Well, I think part of it is because Nintendo wants to keep bad developers off their platforms.  The homebrew scene needs a seal mascot, then we can slap a real good seal of quality on our games to put Nintendo's minds at ease. 

[Kirk_Johnston]

9 hours ago, Black_Tiger said:

 

Sega went further than that. When they saw some top quality ports by a homebrewer they offered to buy them and put them on their minis.

This is an area where Nintendo could definitely learn a thing or two for sure.

[Kirk_Johnston]

4 hours ago, M-S said:

I think it was when they had shut down a ROM site, they went to court and one of the lawyers on the defense asked if dumping cartridges for emulating was also illegal, they said yes, since it was making a new copy, they didn't win on that part because it would mean using original hardware would also be illegal, to which Nintendo had to agree. I remember seeing it on a video covering the lawsuit, it also had a linked article.

Nintendo is also the only company to set official dates of discontinuation for their consoles, most companies just let developers make their games until they are ready to move into new platforms.

I might be understanding you incorrectly here, but that sounds like Nintendo has a problem with dumped ROMs for emulation, which is understandable although arguable depending on the use-case imo, but conceded that it should be okay to use old hardware. It doesn't read to me that Nintendo has a problem with people using their old consoles in and of themselves, which it really shouldn't.

[+Razzie.P]

18 hours ago, M-S said:

This could be possible, but Nintendo's legal team has said they see people using original consoles as the same thing as emulating their games on a computer, which means they don't support it, so far the Nintendo Switch Online games don't include a single homebrew games, not even the ones that are free.

 

10 hours ago, M-S said:

they went to court and one of the lawyers on the defense asked if dumping cartridges for emulating was also illegal, they said yes, since it was making a new copy, they didn't win on that part because it would mean using original hardware would also be illegal, to which Nintendo had to agree. I remember seeing it on a video covering the lawsuit, it also had a linked article.

 

 

Guess its up for interpretation, but I'm not getting that they think "using original consoles is the same as emulation" from that at all.