New IDE card design interest check

[Shift838]

If you voted on forums.atari.io please do not vote here.

 

For the last couple of years, I have been tracing the current IDE card signals off and on to try and get a design that has mostly through-hole components.

 

I believe I have one ready for prototyping but wanted to check interest among the community.  Let me be clear, this new design does NOT offer any new functionality.

 

What it does is convert 95% of the SMD components to through hole with a few exceptions.  The 74F543 is still SMD, there is no current active through-hole part.  The F543 was made at one point for through-hole but it is obsolete.  I have found a supply of them, but I really want to keep the card using current 'ACTIVE' components.  The RTC, SRAM, a 3.3v voltage regulator as well as the CF Card connectors are all SMD.

 

I chose to go with dual CF Card connectors in order to have IDE1-4 on Master and IDE 5-8 on Slave CF Cards.  The whole unit will still be compatible with Fred Kaal's latest IDE DSR.  The card will still function the same.  If interest only shows for a single CF Card then I could convert that to through hole if needed, but more is better right?

 

Anyway, here is my first rendering of the card.  I thought about adding a battery charge circuit for a LR2032 to be used, but using the LR2032 can be tricky as I have found multiple suppliers and many of them have different charge specifications.  If someone replaces the LR2032 with one that does not have the same charging specifications that could result in frying the card, fire, and a slew of other issues.  So, I will stick with no charge circuit for this since the DSR takes about 1 minute to reload anyway.

 

I decided to go with CF Card connectors as lately I have purchased about 10 IDE drives and 6 out of 10 were bad.  Not a good ratio, and since CF Cards are completely compatible with no extra circuitry for IDE (Unlike SD cards), it seemed to be the logical choice.

 

Anyway, here is a render of the card along with the poll if you are interested.

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Shift838

[+OLD CS1]

I would be interested.  I have plenty of working IDE drives, including IDE SSDs, but also IDE->SD, also CF->SD, IDE->CF... I am pretty versatile in my configurations.  While a single CF would work fine for me, a CF and 44-pin header would be ideal as it would give me more options (thinking a 256MB 44-pin DOM like the 4GB I use on my Amiga 1200, as one option.)

[Shift838]

12 hours ago, OLD CS1 said:

I would be interested.  I have plenty of working IDE drives, including IDE SSDs, but also IDE->SD, also CF->SD, IDE->CF... I am pretty versatile in my configurations.  While a single CF would work fine for me, a CF and 44-pin header would be ideal as it would give me more options (thinking a 256MB 44-pin DOM like the 4GB I use on my Amiga 1200, as one option.)

I even thought about having a standard 40 pin IDE as the original and a 44 pin IDE to be able to use a flash memory module like:

Amazon.com: HP 44-Pin 8C4EB44.8254B IDE 4GB Flash Memory 582130-HF1 HF RoHS Apacer Module : Electronics

 

since the CF Card to IDE adapters are readily available.  The DOM modules stand vertically and would be an issue unless it is hanging out the back of the PEB.

This would reduce the price of the card by about $20 doing this while allowing connection of a 44 pin IDE as well as a 40 pin.  I can add a power header on the card as well to be able to plug in power if needed (CF 2 IDE & SD 2 IDE requires power)

 

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Shift838

[+OLD CS1]

4 hours ago, Shift838 said:

The DOM modules stand vertically and would be an issue unless it is hanging out the back of the PEB.

I use ones which sit parallel to the host board.  I can send a pic later.

[+Ksarul]

Rochester has thousands of the through-hole 74F543s in stock--and they have the right to make more of them.

 

I was somewhat torn between the IDE and dual CF adapter mode. . .

[Nessus]

My choice is for assembled and tested, because I am not sure how to test it, aside from putting it in the system and trying to use it.  Called a "smoke test" back when I built computers.

 

I put-in for a standard 40-pin IDE header, since I figured I could get an adapter for a serial drive or a Compact-Flash adapter.  I could also use a standard IDE cable to plug in to an external cabinet.  It might make it easier to put the TI into a PC tower, should I decide to do so.

 

Is a 44-pin header for those tiny laptop drives?  If so, power will have to be included on the IDE controller board.

I have several of them from deceased laptops.

 

K-R.

[+OLD CS1]

55 minutes ago, Nessus said:

Is a 44-pin header for those tiny laptop drives?  If so, power will have to be included on the IDE controller board.

Yeah, pins 41 & 42 are 5V DC.  Most of them have meager power requirements, 500mA or less.  The CF card needs power, anyway.

[Nessus]

That makes sense

4 minutes ago, OLD CS1 said:

Yeah, pins 41 & 42 are 5V DC.  Most of them have meager power requirements, 500mA or less.  The CF card needs power, anyway.

Just wanted to make sure.  I have a couple of IDE to 44-pin adapters in my "universal hard disk checkout box" that I use to connect laptop drive to an IDE cable.  I think I would stay with a standard 40-pin IDE connector.

 

K-R.

[+OLD CS1]

23 minutes ago, Nessus said:

I think I would stay with a standard 40-pin IDE connector.

[+InsaneMultitasker]

11 hours ago, Shift838 said:

This would reduce the price of the card by about $20 doing this while allowing connection of a 44 pin IDE as well as a 40 pin.  I can add a power header on the card as well to be able to plug in power if needed (CF 2 IDE & SD 2 IDE requires power)

the 4GB IDE flash looks like a great option and the price is right. Even with the maximum partition size (248MB) and using all allowable partitions (4 or 8, I forget the max per drive), you will only use at most half of the CF capacity. Seems like one of each port is a reasonable approach, maybe even a good compromise and keeps things "simple".  For reference, with my SCSI card configuration I use a SCSI2SD device with 7 available partitions and I typically only use 1-2, with others used for backup or testing.  Of course, each person will use the IDE card and storage differently.

[Shift838]

1 hour ago, OLD CS1 said:

Yeah, pins 41 & 42 are 5V DC.  Most of them have meager power requirements, 500mA or less.  The CF card needs power, anyway.

I have put a standard power connector for a 3.5 drive on the board as well as a 5v and ground jumper pads to be able to power devices like an IDE2CF adapter.

[Shift838]

4 hours ago, Ksarul said:

Rochester has thousands of the through-hole 74F543s in stock--and they have the right to make more of them.

 

I was somewhat torn between the IDE and dual CF adapter mode. . .

I will check them out tomorrow.  If so then I could reduce the number of SMD to 2, SRAM and RTC.  

[Nessus]

Does the build-it-yourself option have all the surface-mount parts pre-soldered?  I can solder, but cannot do surface-mount.

Also, can the DSR ROMs be put into sockets, so the user can fiddle with DSR code?

K-R.

[Shift838]

7 hours ago, Nessus said:

Does the build-it-yourself option have all the surface-mount parts pre-soldered?  I can solder, but cannot do surface-mount.

Also, can the DSR ROMs be put into sockets, so the user can fiddle with DSR code?

K-R.

yes, al the SMD's for a DIY kit will be presoldered.

[chris36]

I picked Dual CF only because it was OP's primary choice.  I don't have a strong preference here.

[Nessus]

12 hours ago, Nessus said:

Does the build-it-yourself option have all the surface-mount parts pre-soldered?  I can solder, but cannot do surface-mount.

Also, can the DSR ROMs be put into sockets, so the user can fiddle with DSR code?

K-R.

 

5 hours ago, Shift838 said:

yes, al the SMD's for a DIY kit will be presoldered.

In that case, my vote would be for a DIY kit.

Just out of curiosity, what is the "none" package option?  I noticed two people went for it.

K-R.

[Shift838]

1 hour ago, Nessus said:

 

In that case, my vote would be for a DIY kit.

Just out of curiosity, what is the "none" package option?  I noticed two people went for it.

K-R.

for users that voted no need for a new card if there is the TIPI.

 

[Shift838]

I rendered a version with through-hole F543 ICs and the standard 40 pin header and a 44 pin header.  Also has a 5v and GND jumper spot and a 3.5 molex type connector for power as well.

 

[+FarmerPotato]

'543s and all registered (latching) transceivers... I've spent a lot of time investigating these for NuBus. NuBus used a LOT of obsolete 651 types. The 646 types are still around. 

Does it really need the Fast part? F parts can be replaced by AS or ABT, not that that is any easier. (ABT from the 90s on is all surface mount.) 
 

Are you willing to do any design modifications? If so, it's likely that the 543 is overkill and can be functionally replaced with a 646, or a 645 plus two 573. 

I imagine the 543 is used to buffer a 16 bit data bus to 8? Like the console does with a 373 latch and 245 transceiver. This job doesn't fully utilize the 543.
 

The 543 or 651 get used fully when two buses need full access to each other, and both have multiplexed address/data. 

 

check if any of the 543's functions were never used! That is, enable or clock pins shorted to GND or VCC. 

[+FarmerPotato]

The F543 in DIP is much cheaper than my 651s at Rochester. The minimum buy is always $250 but you get them at $0.47. Alas for that $250 though. 
 

[Shift838]

Looks like the standard 40 pin IDE connector won for the vote.  I have rendered the final card in this latest photo.  I am keeping the 44pin IDE connector on there as well for additional connection options.

 

I have gone through the traces on an unpopulated IDE board I have and compared them to my schematic I have hammered out probably 10 times.  I did find a few errors or missed connections, fixed those so all seems good now.  I have ordered a prototype run of 5 boards today.  Should see them in the next couple of weeks.  Tomorrow I will order the components I don't have in stock.  Keeping my fingers and toes crossed all will be good.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2023 by Shift838