WesleyrpgAust Posted September 20 Share Posted September 20 Hey all, Over the last few weeks I've noticed every game box and mention of anything Atari on Songbird Productions website has been removed? The Lynx section is now called AL16 with no mention of Atari or Lynx. The Jaguar section is now call AJ64 with no mention of Atari or Jaguar. Is this a pre-caution so that the new owners of Atari don't get annoyed, or do you think the new Atari have sent them a polite warning on not using those words anymore? I assume this is also going to apply to Telegames based Lynx games as well? Any thoughts? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordKraken Posted September 20 Share Posted September 20 (edited) There is no new atari, only a "new" CEO (has been there a couple of years now) who holds a majority share, but strictly speaking that's the same company. Now why Songbirds did remove Atari name from all his productions, that is a good question that only him could answer. Maybe with Atari showing interest for their old consoles and even restarting the production of 2600 games, it sounds a bit risky to use trademarked brand own by Atari (or that Atari wil re-own soon - Jaguar for instance). Edited September 20 by LordKraken 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4ever2600 Posted September 20 Share Posted September 20 (edited) Maybe Songbird will be for sale soon? Also now there is a pop up banner that says, all AJ64 meaning Jag and AL16 Lynx games are on a 4 to 6 week back order. Very possible he is dragging all stock to PRGE and having a table. Backfilling all titles for now. Makes sense. Could be wrong. Just speculation. Edited September 20 by 4ever2600 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+karri Posted September 20 Share Posted September 20 24 minutes ago, 4ever2600 said: Maybe Songbird will be for sale soon? Or maybe Songbird has content of interest to Atari and they want to join forces. Carl also knows most developers who can create new content to the retro machines. I really doubt that Atari starts developing new games to the Atari 2600+ that will be released in a month. Just speculation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted September 20 Share Posted September 20 All of the boxes and labels in the store have removed the Jaguar and Lynx logos from them as well. Might the back orders be also due in part to having to get new boxes and manuals..etc. done? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MacRorie Posted September 21 Share Posted September 21 He sent out an email recently saying he was “re-branding,” but I am not quite sure what that meant. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted September 21 Share Posted September 21 I assume they’re trying to steer clear of Atari’s copyright police. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jgkspsx Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 17 hours ago, MacRorie said: He sent out an email recently saying he was “re-branding,” but I am not quite sure what that meant. It was in short order and it doesn’t seem like it was something Carl expected to have to do, since he had to ask for support to do it: The new logos look great, so I don’t really mind as a consumer. But I do worry about whether Carl was being hassled and if others might be in the future. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 20 hours ago, MacRorie said: He sent out an email recently saying he was “re-branding,” but I am not quite sure what that meant. Covering up Atari Jaguar and Lynx logos with stickers containing their new logos is what it means. As active as Carl is on this forum, if he wanted to and/or could talk about it I imagine he would. I think we can all draw our own reasonable conclusion and whether or not this was of his own volition.. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFG 9000 Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 6 hours ago, jgkspsx said: It was in short order and it doesn’t seem like it was something Carl expected to have to do, since he had to ask for support to do it: The new logos look great, so I don’t really mind as a consumer. But I do worry about whether Carl was being hassled and if others might be in the future. What is the origin of that quote? I don't see anything like that on Songbird's website. I love supporting them and I'm happy to help out, but I had no idea this was even an issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+karri Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 It may be a good idea to adopt a drawing of the Lynx handheld that would go on every box on the same place where the Lynx logo used to be. Otherwise it is hard to see which games work on a Lynx. The drawing could be very much simplified. Perhaps using similar colours as the Lynx logo. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MacRorie Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 3 hours ago, PFG 9000 said: What is the origin of that quote? I don't see anything like that on Songbird's website. I love supporting them and I'm happy to help out, but I had no idea this was even an issue. It was in the email he sent out via his mailing list. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinyavin Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 (edited) Wasn't the Lynx moved into the Public Domain years ago? Have public rights been abolished in the USA? Does the law have retroactive effect? Is it possible to confiscate what has been transferred to society and give it to the (new) capitalist? No? Rename Lynx labels to "Public Domain Lynx" using different font and colors. You can even use the American flag as a background for your font. And FIGHT FOR YOUR SOCIETY RIGHTS! Edited September 27 by Sinyavin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinyavin Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 All these "AL16s" look naive and in the style of late 80's Taiwanese pirates. This will only fuel judicial interest on the part of the “rights holders.” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninjabba Posted September 28 Share Posted September 28 On 9/27/2023 at 11:22 AM, Sinyavin said: Wasn't the Lynx moved into the Public Domain years ago? The Jaguar was released into public domain. Afaik the Lynx was just forgotten about, but never officially released into public domain. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots.genoa Posted September 28 Share Posted September 28 Also the Jaguar was released into public domain, but not its logo. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinyavin Posted September 29 Share Posted September 29 (edited) 19 hours ago, Ninjabba said: The Jaguar was released into public domain. Afaik the Lynx was just forgotten about, but never officially released into public domain. A few years ago I read on Wikipedia that Lynx had been released into the public domain. But now there is different text: "On May 14, 1999, Hasbro, which held on to those properties until selling Hasbro Interactive to Infogrames in 2001, released into the public domain all rights to the Jaguar, opening up the platform for anyone to publish software on without Hasbro's interference. Internet theories say that the Lynx's rights may have been released to the public at the same time as the Jaguar, but this is clearly disputed." In short, the copyright holders will kill the platform, as always happens. They will not publish new games and will prohibit others from doing so. They will make money by reprinting old stuff - and that’s at best. Perhaps Сarl will clarify the situation, since he seems to have already encountered them. Edited September 29 by Sinyavin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninjabba Posted September 29 Share Posted September 29 This is getting a bit off-topic but if you followed recent news about AA being bought by Atari, this is being heavily discussed but we can still produce and publish games for the Lynx. AA can publish homebrew and afaik everyone else can do this as well. Maybe using the logos will become a problem since they're trademarked again, but if you look at for example the Gameboy homebrew scene there are tons of new releases, kickstarters, etc. with the only notable thing is that they don't use the original logos. I think this is fine. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinyavin Posted September 29 Share Posted September 29 Thanks for the explanation. I am slow-witted a little - English is not my native language, I read slowly in English and I can’t keep up with the news. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinyavin Posted September 29 Share Posted September 29 (edited) I have to give up in this debate. Whoever the publisher of new homebrew games is, the main thing is that new homebrew games continue to be published. Good luck to Songbird Productions. And good luck to AA. Edited September 29 by Sinyavin 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jgkspsx Posted September 29 Share Posted September 29 12 hours ago, Sinyavin said: Good luck to Songbird Productions. And good luck to AA. On those points I think we all agree! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+karri Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 I just asked AI to create a logo for a handheld called Lynx. Could this be our new logo? Or without text as in the second one. Or we could go with a single fuji like logo for all Atari games. These logos are copyright-free as they are generated by AI today and not copies of anything that exists. Now we only need an artist to fix these ideas to something useful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots.genoa Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 3 hours ago, karri said: These logos are copyright-free as they are generated by AI today and not copies of anything that exists. Well AI precisely copies existing works... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+karri Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 10 minutes ago, roots.genoa said: Well AI precisely copies existing works... True in a way. It does not invent anything new. But the resulting image is original. You should not be able to find the same image by a search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots.genoa Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 6 minutes ago, karri said: True in a way. It does not invent anything new. But the resulting image is original. You should not be able to find the same image by a search. Of course not, but I meant in terms of legal, a lot of artists are precisely complaining about AI because it indirectly infringes with copyrights. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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