80 column word processor for upgraded 600 XL?

[newTIboyRob]

I am looking for a relatively easy to use 80 column word processor for my 600 XL with 64K ram expansion. This has proven a hard find thus far. I know that Atariwriter Plus has 80 column print preview mode, but I don't believe it had 80 column edit mode. Last Word seems very good but more elaborate... a bit over my head and not for my more basic needs.  I have Paperclip 3 for the C64, so I was trying for a different one for the Atari.  So from some more reading:

 

Atariwriter 80 requires 2 key things: the XEP80 plug in display module connecting one of the joystick ports to a composite monitor.  I think you already see the other big issue: I am on a 600 xl, and am using typical RF connection out to a smallish TV, and no composite monitor.

 

From what I understand, ST Writer wouldn't be the one for me either here.

 

I did see Textpro, but there are quite a few versions of that, and I don't know which version, if any, or all, use 80 column... not to mention I couldn't find a video of anyone using it to see how it operates.  Perhaps someone who has used that can comment here and talk a little about it?

 

So is this my last hope, or have I simply run out of options here for a more basic 80 column word processor for an upgraded 600 XL?    Maybe there is/are others I have missed?

 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[Forrest]

The XEP80 is a box that attaches to your joystick port and the box has a composite output port. An original XEP80 will set you back a few hundred $.

 

There are two modern alternatives:

1. Mytek’s XEP80 II that recreates and improves on the original. The progress of this is detailed in the XEP II thread on this forum. You can buy an assembled and tested unit for $175 at https://thebrewingacademy.com/collections/atari-800-xl-xe-xel-xld/products/xep80-ii-by-mytek?variant=39492098523238 Currently they are out of stock.

 

2. You can experiment with the XEP80 emulator running on a Raspberry Pi Pico. You build this on a breadboard for $25 in parts, program the Raspberry Pi Pico and it almost works with AtariWriter 80 - see https://forums.atariage.com/topic/350451-xep-80-on-raspbery-pi-pico/

[Piotr D. Kaczorowski]

As I remember @flashjazzcat updated AtariWriter for VBXE native 80 column driver.

[+MrFish]

1 hour ago, newTIboyRob said:

Last Word seems very good but more elaborate... a bit over my head and not for my more basic needs.

Nothing hard about using the last word; it just isn't menu-driven. Get the manual and learn a few simple commands and you'll be happy you did; it's a great word processor, and you can edit in 40 or 80 columns (software-driven). Just because a program has a lot of capabilities doesn't mean you're required to learn about them if you only have simple needs.

 

[newTIboyRob]

I watched a video on The Last Word. Just doesn't seem like the one for me.

[flashjazzcat]

1 hour ago, Piotr D. Kaczorowski said:

As I remember @flashjazzcat updated AtariWriter for VBXE native 80 column driver.

No. It was my own word processor ''The Last Word'.

[flashjazzcat]

1 hour ago, newTIboyRob said:

I watched a video on The Last Word. Just doesn't seem like the one for me.

If you can be more specific, perhaps someone will roll up and write another 80 column text editor for you.

[+Larry]

The only one I think that might work is OmniWriter 80.  But it requires an an Omniview OS.  There might be a version of the Omniview OS that will run from ram-under-rom on a 64K XL, but I'm not aware of it.  So if not, that means that you need another upgrade, but unlike an XEP80, this would amount to an eprom for maybe $10 + postage and some soldering.  (There are several different ways to use multiple operating systems in the Atari XL/XE, but alas they come at a price.)  Probably you are best off with Atariwriter Plus.  Short of that, there are some very nice 40-column text editors that are even easier to navigate. 

 

Here's a description of the features of Omniview/Omniwriter 80:

http://www.atarimania.com/utility-atari-400-800-xl-xe-omniwriter_31007.html

[bfollowell]

5 hours ago, newTIboyRob said:

I am looking for a relatively easy to use 80 column word processor for my 600 XL with 64K ram expansion. This has proven a hard find thus far. I know that Atariwriter Plus has 80 column print preview mode, but I don't believe it had 80 column edit mode. Last Word seems very good but more elaborate... a bit over my head and not for my more basic needs.  I have Paperclip 3 for the C64, so I was trying for a different one for the Atari.  So from some more reading:

 

Atariwriter 80 requires 2 key things: the XEP80 plug in display module connecting one of the joystick ports to a composite monitor.  I think you already see the other big issue: I am on a 600 xl, and am using typical RF connection out to a smallish TV, and no composite monitor.

 

From what I understand, ST Writer wouldn't be the one for me either here.

 

I did see Textpro, but there are quite a few versions of that, and I don't know which version, if any, or all, use 80 column... not to mention I couldn't find a video of anyone using it to see how it operates.  Perhaps someone who has used that can comment here and talk a little about it?

 

So is this my last hope, or have I simply run out of options here for a more basic 80 column word processor for an upgraded 600 XL?    Maybe there is/are others I have missed?

 

 

 

 

Well, ST Writer definitely isn't for you, mainly because it isn't a program for Atari 8-bits. It's an Atari ST program.

 

I know you were finally convinced to upgrade from 16K and cartridge only software, but in the past you've mentioned that you can't afford to spend a lot and you've been very reluctant to perform any upgrades. That's going to be a problem. For good, readable 80-column display on an 8-bit, you're going to need to upgrade because it just isn't possible on a standard 8-bit. There were software 80-column solutions and, while some of those look decent on modern displays using modern video upgrades, most  were barely readable on anything less, especially through an RF connection. On top of that, I don't recall many of those software solutions being compatible with existing software.

 

Hopefully, someone else will recall something that I don't, but much like your original requests over the past couple of months, I believe you're going to have to come to the realization that you're asking far too much from your humble, mostly stock hardware. While you've added an Sdrive-Max, remember, that's just an add-on, not an upgrade. The only upgrade you've done is going from 16Kb to 64Kb of memory, and it's going too take a lot more than that to do what're you're wanting to do.

 

[+CharlieChaplin]

There is a GUI named "S.A.M." (screen aided management), that was once a type-in listing.

It supports joystick in port 1 and ST-mouse in port 2 and includes a simple writing program named SAM-Texter (max. 3 pages!) that works with 80 columns (software-driven). But I have no manual for it... (I could move the pointer and choose options, but have not found out, how to start typing/writing)...

 

When loaded, move the pointer to "Utilities" and there choose SAM-Texter. This GUI works only under DOS 2.5 and its 130k diskformat (it makes use of the otherwise unused sectors on a DOS 2.5  130k diskette). 

 

SAMGUI.zip

[reifsnyderb]

7 hours ago, Forrest said:

The XEP80 is a box that attaches to your joystick port and the box has a composite output port. An original XEP80 will set you back a few hundred $.

 

There are two modern alternatives:

1. Mytek’s XEP80 II that recreates and improves on the original. The progress of this is detailed in the XEP II thread on this forum. You can buy an assembled and tested unit for $175 at https://thebrewingacademy.com/collections/atari-800-xl-xe-xel-xld/products/xep80-ii-by-mytek?variant=39492098523238 Currently they are out of stock.

 

2. You can experiment with the XEP80 emulator running on a Raspberry Pi Pico. You build this on a breadboard for $25 in parts, program the Raspberry Pi Pico and it almost works with AtariWriter 80 - see https://forums.atariage.com/topic/350451-xep-80-on-raspbery-pi-pico/

The XEP-80 emulator has also been done on a 1090XL (and 1091XL).  Once I get my latest 1090XL card done, I'll make these available.

[Beeblebrox]

3 hours ago, CharlieChaplin said:

There is a GUI named "S.A.M." (screen aided management), that was once a type-in listing.

It supports joystick in port 1 and ST-mouse in port 2 and includes a simple writing program named SAM-Texter (max. 3 pages!) that works with 80 columns (software-driven). But I have no manual for it... (I could move the pointer and choose options, but have not found out, how to start typing/writing)...

 

When loaded, move the pointer to "Utilities" and there choose SAM-Texter. This GUI works only under DOS 2.5 and its 130k diskformat (it makes use of the otherwise unused sectors on a DOS 2.5  130k diskette). 

 

SAMGUI.zip 55.12 kB · 1 download

I bought S.A.M off Dean Garraghty(?) software in the 90s. I was really excited at the time because of the gui. 

Still have the disks all these years later. 

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[+slx]

10 hours ago, Forrest said:

The XEP80 is a box that attaches to your joystick port and the box has a composite output port. An original XEP80 will set you back a few hundred $.

Not sure if an XEP80 is the best solution for OP as you probably want to have another screen for the output, but at least over here they occasionally come up for far less. The last one sold through the ABBUC forum had an asking price of 50€ and an 800XL with 1050 and XEP80 went for 128$ on ebay.com a few weeks ago.

 

(I remembered mine to be quite cheap as well, and looked it up. It was 20€ plus shipping but it turns out that was 10 years ago already 😧.)

 

12 hours ago, newTIboyRob said:

So is this my last hope, or have I simply run out of options here for a more basic 80 column word processor for an upgraded 600 XL?    Maybe there is/are others I have missed?

If you want 80 columns from a standard 600XL you'll have to live with very small characters and as those are "painted" on a Graphics 8 screen, they'll use about 4 times as much memory as two screens of 40-column text. The only way to change this is some kind of hardware upgrade which needs to be compatible with whatever software you want to use.

 

 

[Atari8guy]

I once went way down this path.... I got myself a XEP-80 (original) and bought AtariWriter 80 from Best Electronics, then I bought an Apple monochrome monitor for the second display and the image is amazing, nice and sharp, very crisp text and it's a solid word processor.   However, in the end, I more often use the aforementioned TLW with it's software 80 column version as my A8 also has a Sophia2 in it (which is a really easily install, no soldering required) as it's even easier and the extra features do come in handy from time to time.

 

Just my two cents.

[newTIboyRob]

@bfollowell  ... Ok, well then you can see that I just wasn't aware that my combination of upgrading from 16K to 64K and adding the Sdrive still wasn't going to be able to do what I would like to do here; I was hoping it would be enough, or that others could suggest/find an alternate solution for this, hence the new post. I wasn't aware of the possibility that more money would have to be spent to achieve this. Now I know.  I am also aware that you have followed and commented on my other Atari-related posts, and in that regard, I almost always I have come away feeling absolutely terrible: "...finally convinced to upgrade", also mentioning that "I need to come to the realization", etc. I won't dwell more on this here, as this is a technical forum, but we are all still people after all who comment. Maybe what you don't realize, if you haven't followed my other posts under other platforms, is that the reason I can't afford to spend a lot of money is that I have had to give myself compartmentalized budgets because I've been working over multiple platforms that I've come into. Thus, within my vintage computer budget, I have to dole it out: Let's see... I have X to spend. I have X that I could spend on this computer, X to spend on that. Instead of just throwing the different computers in the trash, I decided to keep them and try to use them in the basic way/needs I have had described, just for a taste of the different flavors of each computer, rather than putting all the eggs in the Atari basket. Thus you would see I have been looking for spreadsheets and wordprocessors for the other computers to work within pretty tight confines. In fairness to you, I didn't mention the aspect of my having multiple budgets within my specific Atari posts, as I didn't think it was really necessary all along, but now I guess it's finally come that I need to mention it to you here. If you circle back, you may now realize the big picture in my situation, the picture you don't think I have been "getting" all along, and maybe now you will see things differently when you comment on my threads. In short, further upgrade days on the Atari for me, at least for the time being, are not likely. Please keep all this in mind should you comment my way in the future.

 

@flashjazzcat  ... yes, watched your YouTube video. Certainly a very nice program, and extremely impressive is your knowledge and know-how to even put something cool like that together      and you are right, I do wish someone would come up with a usable 80 column editor within 64k.  There is one that I have for the c64 called "Pocket Writer"... kind of a less known/popular one compared to Paperclip and the like... but I've found that one really super easy to use, very intuitive and containing just the basic functions of what I was hoping for in a word processor. I actually also love Atariwriter, soon to try Atariwriter Plus.

 

@Larry  ... excellent points!  I actually do have Omniwriter 80 loaded on my SD card. I would have to see about the Omniview OS.  Since I can't be upgrading any further, I suppose the only other question for me with this route is finding a version of the Omniview OS that will run from ram-under-rom on a 64K XL.

 

@CharlieChaplin  ... very nice, will look into this more.

 

@reifsnyderb   .. that might be the answer, but would it be usuable on a 600 XL with only 64k ram expansion and Sdrive Max when all is said and done though?

@Beeblebrox   ... in relation to Charlie Chaplain above... could those floppy SAM's be converted into an ATR or XEX or whatever possible to make an 80 column usuable with the 64k on a 600 XL?

 

[newTIboyRob]

@slx  ... ah, ok, I see, thanks for that, fantastic point in your last comment there.  Rereading your input alone might be the game changer here, especially with the memory eating concept. Wow.

Edited October 21, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[newTIboyRob]

@Atari8guy  ... maybe 2 cents, but a very valuable 2 cents, thank you.  I actually do have an Apple monochrome monitor, but the tiny ET-like one, so wouldn't work for me here. And I am aware about the TLW, but will remain Sophia2-less   

Edited October 21, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[reifsnyderb]

2 hours ago, newTIboyRob said:

   .. that might be the answer, but would it be usuable on a 600 XL with only 64k ram expansion and Sdrive Max when all is said and done though?

 

The 1090XL (and 1091XL) will work fine on a 600XL through the parallel port.  I use mine all the time to upgrade my 600XL to 320k.  There are now a decent number of upgrades that have been created and/or re-made. 

(The 1090XL and 1091XL boards are back-planes with 5 card slots.)

 

Remade:

64k upgrade card.  (Can also be used for expanded memory, via a special bank at $D1FE, to supply up to an additional 512k of RAM)

80 column monitor card

Prototype board

 

New:

320k SRAM card to upgrade to 64k of base RAM and 256k of extended RAM

CX85 numeric keypad card

80 column XEP-80 parallel card

XE compatibility card

Firmware board -- can upgrade the OS and BASIC under certain circumstances.  More work is being done in this regard.

Prototype board with breadboard layout.

 

In progress:

4MB RAM Disk card with some other capabilities.  Features will include up to 4 partitions, drive re-numbering, inverse option key, OS configuration (with a compatible OS), PBI card enable/disable (if supported by cards, OS, etc.)

[adam242]

18 hours ago, newTIboyRob said:

I think you already see the other big issue: I am on a 600 xl, and am using typical RF connection out to a smallish TV, and no composite monitor.

 

Any software-generated 80 column display will be all but unreadable on an RF-connected TV set. The artifacting will drive you insane.

[_The Doctor__]

Turn your color all the way down or off when attempting RF soft 80, and your focus/frequency lock has to be spot on. Make sure to use the RF cable with taroid coil. Make sure the TV height and width are such the the screen mostly meets each edge but the aspect ratio is still correct.

 

[newTIboyRob]

@adam242  ... by artifacting you mean the way the software was designed to interact (or doesn't) interact with the RF concept of the tv... here, producing that kind of that hazy, washy, on-screen fuzziness?

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[adam242]

Artifacting is a technique to generate color in hi-res mode exploiting the limitations of an old CRT monitor.

 

 

This is an emulated screenshot, it will look even worse with real hardware, especially with an RF connection instead of composite.

 

[newTIboyRob]

Yikes, ok. Thank you adam. Based on contributions from slx and adam (especially based on that last visual) signs point to: just give up on the idea of trying to use even the upgraded 600XL with a 80 column word processor, since it will still have RF out to tv, use a nice chunk of memory, and most importantly, essentially be illegible. I can (and will have to) accept this, so game over with that.

 

But now let me throw a different but related hat into the ring here to explore:

 

• I will soon have my 800xl repaired. Would that, being composite out, help with the artifacting and make it a little more viewable on a VGA 18" flat screen monitor?  I currently use this kind of monitor successfully and get a decent enough/not really too fuzzy viewing screen by connecting the composite cable's yellow video rca jack into a VGA converter box then to the screen for my c64 and TI 99 4/a computers.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
•  Since the 64k memory of the stock 800xl = the upgraded-from-16k-to-64k 600 xl, an 80 column word processor here will still eat up a decent amount of the 64k main memory since it is the same amount of memory then?  Could you still get a decent enough looking screen and even a few pages within the memory confines?

 

• I saw the disk images for the program and XEP80 box Atari8guy mentioned above, namely the Atariwriter 80 and XEP80_Boot_Disk-DX5087.at. Would adding those 2 to my Sdrive and trying be a solution? I also see the latter has a handler.com file and driver to work with OSS BASIC XE, so maybe the first or even both of those are needed in addition to make it work as well?

 

• xep80han.arc ; XEP80 handler - .com-file
• xep80bxe.arc ; XEP80 driver to work with OSS BASIC XE

 

•   Thinking maybe someone has tried this combination?

 
 

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[flashjazzcat]

15 hours ago, newTIboyRob said:

you are right, I do wish someone would come up with a usable 80 column editor within 64k.  There is one that I have for the c64 called "Pocket Writer"... kind of a less known/popular one compared to Paperclip and the like... but I've found that one really super easy to use, very intuitive and containing just the basic functions of what I was hoping for in a word processor. I actually also love Atariwriter, soon to try Atariwriter Plus.

If all you're looking for is something which works in 64K, The Last Word is capable of doing so. Unfortunately (unlike prior 40 column versions) it uses the 'Shadow RAM', so is incompatible with disk-based versions of SpartaDOS, but other than that, it's perfectly usable without any extended memory at all providing DOS doesn't use RAM under the OS.

 

TLW has built-in help in case you forget command keystrokes. The application is certainly long overdue for a refresh and some bug fixes, but it's one of the few A8 text editors which is 'actively developed' (I use inverted commas because I've had little time to develop it these past few years).

[bfollowell]

There is really nothing strange or deficient about any of the stock Atari 8-bit computers not supporting 80 columns. Almost no 8-bit computers of the day, certainly none of what I think of as the big 3 home computers, Atari, Commodore, and Apple II supported 80 column displays in their stock configurations. I think the TRS-80 Model I had a 64-character display and the Model III had an 80  column display, but I never saw those anywhere outside of school computer labs.

 

As for your questions about the 800XL, there is essentially no difference between a 600XL upgraded to 64Kb and an 800XL with stock 64KB. I would think that the software 80-column display would be extremely rough and fuzzy on composite as well, though certainly much, much better than RF. Keep in mind that each character is only 3 pixels wide with a single pixel space in-between characters. That doesn't leave a lot for character definition. I have seen some of these working very well on a Sophia or VBXE display, but those are modern display upgrades that you would need to purchase and I know you wish to stay as stock as possible. Also, if you had a VBXE, there would be no need to use software 80-columns as it supports 64 and 80 columns in hardware.

 

As to your question about adding the  XEP800 handlers or boot disks to your system, if you're asking what I think you're asking, then no, this wouldn't help at all. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you do not have an XEP80, correct? If not then adding these files or disks would not help because you do not have the necessary hardware to make use of them. If I'm mistaken and you do have an XEP80 and I missed it, then I'm sorry, but I really don't know much about them other than what I've read, but I'm certain there are users on here that can help you get it going. If you don't then this is much like asking if installing the latest NVidia drivers on your PC would help you get 3D graphics if you don't have an NVidia card. Those XEP80 files and disks you mentioned are drivers or special applications written to work with the XEP80 device specifically and are of no use whatsoever to anyone without one.

 

As for your 600XL, you have the normal configuration that most everyone would have used back in the day. A more or less stock XL computer with a 40 character display and a disk drive. Anything that you want beyond that is going to require you to add some upgrades to your computer, just like we would've had to do way back then, because most 8-bit computers of the day weren't capable of these displays without upgrades. Heck, a 64Kb 800XL with a disk drive, a Gemini 10X printer, displaying on an old RCA portable TV through RF got me through college, many term papers, and numerous resumes, including the one that helped me get the job that I have 31 years later.

 

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by bfollowell