reifsnyderb Posted November 2 Share Posted November 2 1 hour ago, Mathy said: Hello Brian, folks Would it be possible to somehow temporarily switch this memory off? So you can choose between "14x0" compatibility mode and "PBI" compatibility mode? Sincerely Mathy It would probably be better to switch off both the internal devices and the PBI RAM. I'd have to study the entire schematic to see how this would be done. It may be possible to add a jumper (or connection to an external switch) to one of the PLD chips and route the PBI RAM chip select through the same chip somehow. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/19/#findComment-5558973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+kheller2 Posted November 2 Share Posted November 2 10 hours ago, electronizer said: There’s a picture way back in my original post. I’ll see if I can find another one. Oh that post. Finding a 1450 at a garage sale. So lucky. I see you are #13 of the prototype boards from that pic. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/19/#findComment-5559044 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted November 2 Share Posted November 2 4 hours ago, kheller2 said: Oh that post. Finding a 1450 at a garage sale. So lucky. I see you are #13 of the prototype boards from that pic. Yeah getting one in a case makes it extremely rare. Just a matter of being in the right place at the right time, and recognizing it for what it actually is. Very lucky indeed. So I wonder if there is any possibility of getting that case 3D scanned? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/19/#findComment-5559138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted November 4 Author Share Posted November 4 Testing is going in fits and starts. Seems Oklahoma weather wants to play with me. I got all the the stuff setup to do the testing and filming late yesterday afternoon, then it started thunder booming and lightening flashing. Had a healthy dallop of wind to round things out. It continued most of the evening until late. No tornadoes close by, but the threat was there. Now today as the noon hour is passing, it's starting up again. I'll try to get done as much as possible, but I stay well away from electronics, especially Atari stuff when the weather gets Oklahoma angry. 3 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/19/#findComment-5560335 Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrbrevin Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 8 minutes ago, Dropcheck said: thunder booming and lightening flashing the god of commodore objects to you resurrecting such a titan! 3 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/19/#findComment-5560338 Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeventura Posted November 9 Share Posted November 9 On 11/4/2024 at 1:35 PM, xrbrevin said: the god of commodore objects to you resurrecting such a titan! Oh oh I think that worked!!! Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/19/#findComment-5562892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
electronizer Posted November 15 Share Posted November 15 On 11/1/2024 at 4:34 PM, kheller2 said: Ooh I don't have this version in my motherboard list. Do you have a picture of the component side? Here’s a better picture of the X1 board component side. 4 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/19/#findComment-5565992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLund1 Posted November 26 Share Posted November 26 DROPCHECK any updates? It's been a while. No rush with the holidays approaching. Just wondering. You have done a great service to the Atari community with all your efforts on this incredible project you took upon yourself! 5 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/19/#findComment-5573049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted November 27 Author Share Posted November 27 Sorry. I'm still alive. Still working on finishing the project. Almost done now. It's been an eventful few weeks. My house furnace decided to get flakey. Which necessitated getting serious about replacement with winter coming on. It was old enough, almost 30 years old. But it's also specially designed for mobile homes. The first quote was short on price and short, very short on what they would be using to replace my existing one. To the point that they lost my patience and I went with someone else. I expect for over $3000 that they give me a real price quote, not some back of the napkin scribble. The second local air and furnace shop came in and did a very good job, but it was nearly half again as expensive. That occupied the majority of about two weeks of my time. Priorities...... On top of that I've been battling bronchitis and then the VA decided to end my cancer community care and drag me back into the main VA system for continuing cancer treatment. I'm in remission, but have to go in for periodic checkups. That upset the expected schedule of appointments for the last three weeks too. The cartridge shroud test board I had sent off came back right on the money and so I went ahead and sent off a full board order. It took almost two weeks more for that, but shipping it FedEx eliminated the remote delivery surcharge from UPS. I've been building that board for the last three or four days now. Initial power on and simple tests are good so far. I'm finally back at the point I was in early Nov. I'll be finishing the filming and testing either tomorrow or Thursday. I should be able to finish with documentation and build info and upload to my website this weekend. 16 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/19/#findComment-5573298 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted November 27 Author Share Posted November 27 I'm beginning to think that the PBI issue I am experiencing maybe related to either the HandlerXL code or the PAL A/B/C coding. It seems to handle the internal PBI devices, T and Speech okay, but not external. I have verified to the nth degree proper signal tracing to the PBI connector. @AtariGeezerswears that he can run the IDE Plus PBI device on his original Atari 1450XL motherboard, but I am not able to. I finally found my copy of the IDE Plus 2.0 v F board and a good CF card hiding in a drawer. But when I connect it to my replica, the device never comes up. I get a black screen with a power indication on the board itself. I have +5V power on PBI pins 47 and 48. I was getting much the same with @reifsnyderb 109x board and OS mod card. I am unable to get Syscheck v2.2 to come up either. The original board trace I made did not buffer the PHI2 signal to the PBI. I have tried running a buffered PHI2 signal and changed out several of the buffer chips for faster ones. No difference. Does anyone have a reasonable suggestion? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/19/#findComment-5573677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 Was the 1450 designed to use ISA floppy drives or some specialized version? Presume this uses a 1200 keyboard? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/19/#findComment-5573682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted November 27 Author Share Posted November 27 3 minutes ago, Larry said: Was the 1450 designed to use ISA floppy drives or some specialized version? Presume this uses a 1200 keyboard? It has a floppy drive connector on the inside, and I've seen in a couple of AtariAge posts that one or two people were able to connect an XF551 drive and get it formatted and read. I don't remember if it was the TONG version motherboard or the one I'm testing. It works fine with an XF551 connected via the serial port. It does use the 1200XL keyboard. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/19/#findComment-5573688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
electronizer Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 Here’s a program to play with the speech. This works with phonetic speech, so if a word doesn’t sound right you have to get creative with the spelling. The trap is there because too many characters will cause an error. I think this is because there’s a predefined FIFO that’s getting overrun. 5 DIM X$(256) 10 TRAP 100 20 OPEN #1,8,0,"V1:PF" 30 PRINT “WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO PRONOUNCE?” 40 INPUT X$ 50 PRINT #1,X$ 60 GOTO 30 100 PRINT “UH OH, SOMETHING WENT WRONG” 110 CLOSE #1 120 GOTO 10 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/19/#findComment-5573732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariGeezer Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 2 hours ago, Dropcheck said: I'm beginning to think that the PBI issue I am experiencing maybe related to either the HandlerXL code or the PAL A/B/C coding. It seems to handle the internal PBI devices, T and Speech okay, but not external. I have verified to the nth degree proper signal tracing to the PBI connector. @AtariGeezerswears that he can run the IDE Plus PBI device on his original Atari 1450XL motherboard, but I am not able to. I finally found my copy of the IDE Plus 2.0 v F board and a good CF card hiding in a drawer. But when I connect it to my replica, the device never comes up. Does anyone have a reasonable suggestion? Have you tried your IDE+ Rev. F on @kheller2's board yet? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/19/#findComment-5573773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+kheller2 Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 6 hours ago, Larry said: Was the 1450 designed to use ISA floppy drives or some specialized version? Presume this uses a 1200 keyboard? Depends on which 1450 you are referring too. The 1983 Dynasty short board versions have a PBI header that plugged into a "floppy board" that used 1050 style mechs. "floppy board" because I've seen two types. The 1983 TONG version used a stock floppy header, as all the floppy drive electronics were onboard the TONG. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/19/#findComment-5573976 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLund1 Posted November 28 Share Posted November 28 1 hour ago, kheller2 said: Depends on which 1450 you are referring too. The 1983 Dynasty short board versions have a PBI header that plugged into a "floppy board" that used 1050 style mechs. "floppy board" because I've seen two types. kheller2 - can you elaborate on the identification and performance differences of the 'two types" of 1450xl'? I only know of the 1450XL(short board) and 1450xld(tong) versions. Dropcheck - Of the two kheller2 points out, which are you currently building? Also, I'm still applauding your efforts on this !! Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/19/#findComment-5574021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted November 28 Author Share Posted November 28 41 minutes ago, KLund1 said: Dropcheck - Of the two kheller2 points out, which are you currently building? Also, I'm still applauding your efforts on this !! I would have to say I am building the 1983 Dynasty short board. Or in other words the pre-TONG version. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/19/#findComment-5574059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted November 28 Author Share Posted November 28 6 hours ago, AtariGeezer said: Have you tried your IDE+ Rev. F on @kheller2's board yet? I could, but I am scared of torching his board. 😬 Besides I don't think it is the IDE PLUS v2 F board. I'm getting the same behavior on all external PBI devices I've tried. So it would seem to be with my remake. I just don't know why. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/19/#findComment-5574062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariGeezer Posted November 28 Share Posted November 28 18 hours ago, Dropcheck said: I could, but I am scared of torching his board. 😬 Besides I don't think it is the IDE PLUS v2 F board. I'm getting the same behavior on all external PBI devices I've tried. So it would seem to be with my remake. I just don't know why. I betcha it's something so simple to get going, but I know you've looked it over at least a dozen times and it's not popping out as to why. I have confidence in you and you will overcome it 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/19/#findComment-5574493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLund1 Posted November 28 Share Posted November 28 Perhaps, putting your newest schematics in the public here so some of the other smart people here could help? A fresh perspective can be very helpful. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/19/#findComment-5574516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted November 28 Author Share Posted November 28 1 minute ago, KLund1 said: Perhaps, putting your newest schematics in the public here so some of the other smart people here could help? A fresh perspective can be very helpful. The newest schematic is just the various fixes on the old v1.3. Nothing else really changed electrically. The issues were also happening with the older version 1.3 board with the fixes applied. Fixes: 1. Tie R100 to +5V instead of GND 2. Tie R134 to +5V instead of GND 3. Take L5 and place in line with +5V to J8-15 4. Tie SW2-3 to GND 5. Tie RP1-4 to U36-26 6. Tie U25-37 to U35-8 7. Flip orientation of Q8 --Emitter to R140, Base between R140 and R141, Collector to R61 8. Remove *T1 1450XL_v1_3.pdf Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/19/#findComment-5574521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
reifsnyderb Posted November 28 Share Posted November 28 @Dropcheck I just glanced at the schematic you just posted. While it may not be the problem, I noticed something strange. On the PBI connector, there is U15 (74LS07) on the /RDY line and /IRQ line. I would have suspected those buffer inputs to have hold-up resistors. Otherwise, they are floating and it could result in either the /RDY or /IRQ lines being pulled low. This would certainly result in a crash. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/19/#findComment-5574534 Share on other sites More sharing options...
electronizer Posted November 28 Share Posted November 28 On 10/31/2024 at 9:25 PM, electronizer said: @KLund1 told me about this thread and once I started reading I couldn’t stop—great thread and amazing accomplishment! I dug through some pictures I took when I got my 1400XL engineering sample and it looks like I have an X1 board. It had a PBI mod when I got it, I’m guessing that’s pin 31 and it’s the same mod @Dropcheck tried to bring out a buffered PHI2 signal. I tried hooking up my Black Box to the PBI years ago, but it didn’t work. This thread renewed my interest, and on searching, it looks like the Black Box takes over all the PBI IDs, meaning it’s incompatible with the 1450 board. I also took some comparison pictures with a 1200XL to show the case differences. My board has a 4.7k resistor between pins 14 and 9 of U15 (see image above). That would be a pull-up on the IRQ line. there are several other added wires and traces scratched out, if it helps I can try to document them. Happy Thanksgiving for those who celebrate it! 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/19/#findComment-5574554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
reifsnyderb Posted November 28 Share Posted November 28 3 minutes ago, electronizer said: My board has a 4.7k resistor between pins 14 and 9 of U15 (see image above). That would be a pull-up on the IRQ line. there are several other added wires and traces scratched out, if it helps I can try to document them. Happy Thanksgiving for those who celebrate it! The 4.7k resistor would do the trick. If you can document the added wires and scratched out traces, that would be great! Thank you! Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/19/#findComment-5574558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
electronizer Posted November 28 Share Posted November 28 Ah, I spoke too soon. The pull up resistor is actually on U33, and it is shown in the updated schematic. Apologies for the mix-up. When I get time I’ll pull out the board and do a more careful examination. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/19/#findComment-5574562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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