reifsnyderb Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 52 minutes ago, mytek said: This is unfortunately so true, because I have yet to have a new motherboard that doesn't require at least 3 PCB runs to get to the final version. This has been the case for: 1088XEL, 1088XLD, 576NUC+, and the CV-NUC+ Yeah. Then there is the hours of assembly time followed by the hours troubleshooting time to figure out what you really got and what you need to change. It's quite a process. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/6/#findComment-5414761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+kheller2 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 So what everyone is saying is we are no better than Atari with a 1450 X3 revision. Could be worse... the 1200 was 13 revisions. Supposedly. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/6/#findComment-5414898 Share on other sites More sharing options...
reifsnyderb Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 5 minutes ago, kheller2 said: So what everyone is saying is we are no better than Atari with a 1450 X3 revision. Could be worse... the 1200 was 13 revisions. Supposedly. No. Hopefully, the first revision will be correct. If not, since it's all THT it should be possible for the second revision to be correct. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/6/#findComment-5414904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted February 20 Author Share Posted February 20 1 hour ago, kheller2 said: So what everyone is saying is we are no better than Atari with a 1450 X3 revision. Could be worse... the 1200 was 13 revisions. Supposedly. Really not. Not sure what it is really. I'm trying to recreate a X2 version that was itself a prototype. Some parts are no longer available and so have to be substituted. So it's not really an X2 prototype replication either. Anyone have an idea what to call it? 🙂 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/6/#findComment-5414994 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Hello Lenore 2.1? Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/6/#findComment-5415097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariGeezer Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 6 hours ago, Dropcheck said: Some parts are no longer available and so have to be substituted. Have you seen these SC-01 replacements? https://www.ebay.com/itm/276185219566 Which other parts? 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/6/#findComment-5415224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 17 minutes ago, AtariGeezer said: Have you seen these SC-01 replacements? https://www.ebay.com/itm/276185219566 Which other parts? I saw that. I am leary of counting on that being available. It might be and if it is a exact replacement might work well. I purchased this https://www.thegeekpub.com/product/sc-01-speech-chip-emulator-votrax/ It's expensive, but available now. Hopefully it will work. I'll find out. I've run into this and a few other caps that are not readily available in the footprint or voltage value that @Vandal968 listed in his BOM. I'll be checking the size of the cap substitutes to make sure they will fit the original footprints when my Digikey order comes in Thursday. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/6/#findComment-5415242 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 I have Bob1200XL's dump of the PAL16R4 chip, which I trust. But all I have is a .pdf that someone posted of the other PALs equations. Does anyone have the other two PALs A and B jdec files? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/6/#findComment-5415613 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariGeezer Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Wish I did, I bought those chips from Bradly... Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/6/#findComment-5415745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 17 hours ago, Dropcheck said: I have Bob1200XL's dump of the PAL16R4 chip, which I trust. But all I have is a .pdf that someone posted of the other PALs equations. Does anyone have the other two PALs A and B jdec files? If you have the equations, then using WinCUPL should produce the JED files. Microchip acquired WinCUPL as part of their acquisition of ATMEL, and now gives it away for free. It's a bit clunky to use, but usually does the trick. Download LINK. There are several YouTube videos on how to use it. 4 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/6/#findComment-5415962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 That's an option. But I have no idea how valid the equations are. It's not like anyone in the main thread indicated they had created their PAL files from them. It would be nicer if I could start with a known good part, so if it doesn't work on the first boot up(surely my work is perfect 🙃), I'm not trouble shooting a non-existent electronics problem. @Bob1200XL do you still have those files? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/6/#findComment-5416142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 Looks like the parts I ordered will work with the spacing on the board. So now the next step is finalizing the routing of the traces and any last minute fixes. Hopefully the gerbers go out Sunday. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/6/#findComment-5416217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 @bob1200xl This should get him (I don't think your original link worked properly). Hey Bob, @Dropcheck is in need of JED files for her 1450XLD re-imagined PCB. Do you have them? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/6/#findComment-5416465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 I think so.... U11, U7, and U12. Bob U1216L8.JEDU716L8.JEDU1116R4 4 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/6/#findComment-5417392 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted February 25 Author Share Posted February 25 Thank you so much Bob!🙂 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/6/#findComment-5417516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 uummmm.... that is U11, not U1. sorry.... Bob Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/6/#findComment-5417542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 1 hour ago, bob1200xl said: uummmm.... that is U11, not U1. sorry.... Bob Fixed it 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/6/#findComment-5417566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted February 25 Author Share Posted February 25 Board files sent. V1.0 of the 1450XL prototype reimage went out to JCLPCB. Size was 352 x 242 mm for a total of 5 4-layer standard green masked boards. Total cost was $152 including board manufacturing, shipping and sales tax. Hopefully will only take about two weeks to arrive on my doorstep. Working on getting a power supply wired together now. Found a Mean Well Switching Power Supply module that I can wire up to provide the needed voltages and amps. Probably will need to fire up my 3D printer to make a power supply case for it. I think it still works. 🙂 10 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/6/#findComment-5417740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 On 12/18/2023 at 11:36 AM, Dropcheck said: I just recently discovered that Diptrace 4.3 has that capability too. I had thought I'd have to go with Sprint Layout or maybe Kicad. I've tried numerous times to wade into Kicad to create some pcb, but I found the interface to be about as clunky as Eagle's. I don't want to memorize a zillion arcane keyboard shortcuts on top of a zillion other arcane keyboard shortcuts for a zillion other Windows apps. Not saying that Diptrace doesn't have it's quirks, but it's a familiar blanket now. It can export and import several different other electronic CAD files with some degree of accuracy and so far does everything I need it to do. Great project! Coincidentally, I was doing something similar over the holiday's to reproduce a serial and cassette I/O board for the Altair 8800. I didn't have access to a bare board, but did have high quality photo's of the front and back to use. It presented a few challenges, but the board complexity is nothing like the 1450 you are working on. This was my first board design and I used ExpressPCB, which I will never do again. They will only give you gerbers with a board order, so when the inevitable corrections needed to be done, I had to modify the gerbers by hand. ExpressPCB is seriously over priced. I did learn a lot from the experience though. 7 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/6/#findComment-5418587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted March 6 Author Share Posted March 6 First Look: I just recieved these boards via DHL delivery. First looks only. I have compared the dimensions of the original 1450XL I have on loan with these v1.0 re-images. I must say I came pretty close the first time. Just some minor tweaks and it's dead on with the mounting holes and almost all of the connector placements. The original board seems a tad bit heavier. I might try to go 1.8 mil with the thickness, but that adds cost and I'm not that sure it is worth it. Next step is to make the tweaks in board layout. Then begin the slow process of re-verifying parts fit as I begin assembly of the board. My plan is to only power up with the basic assembly first, then see if the add ins work. 14 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/6/#findComment-5424394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 Well Damn that sure looks nice!!! Great job 👍 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/6/#findComment-5424414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 1 hour ago, Dropcheck said: First Look: I just recieved these boards via DHL delivery. First looks only. I have compared the dimensions of the original 1450XL I have on loan with these v1.0 re-images. I must say I came pretty close the first time. Just some minor tweaks and it's dead on with the mounting holes and almost all of the connector placements. The original board seems a tad bit heavier. I might try to go 1.8 mil with the thickness, but that adds cost and I'm not that sure it is worth it. Next step is to make the tweaks in board layout. Then begin the slow process of re-verifying parts fit as I begin assembly of the board. My plan is to only power up with the basic assembly first, then see if the add ins work. I'm suddenly wanting to build again! 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/6/#findComment-5424460 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted March 17 Author Share Posted March 17 Just an update: About 70% done with mainboard assembly. Found a few tweaks I'll have to make in the next version. Primarily spacing revamp and physical part conversions. Axial to Radial on some of the electrolytic caps. Obsolete and not readily available parts is the reason. I'll be cannibalizing one of my 1200 machines next for some parts, mainly connectors. The 1200 was a hanger queen, so had a good life and will live on in the 1450XL 10 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/6/#findComment-5431043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+kheller2 Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 That's a beauty! Now for revision 2.1, you want to shift all the components to the right and angle the joystick ports so you can use a standard 1200XL side plastic. 😂 Is it sacrilege to design a "reimaged" 1200XL board with a PBI header 3 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/6/#findComment-5431372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted March 17 Author Share Posted March 17 1 hour ago, kheller2 said: That's a beauty! Now for revision 2.1, you want to shift all the components to the right and angle the joystick ports so you can use a standard 1200XL side plastic. 😂 Is it sacrilege to design a "reimaged" 1200XL board with a PBI header My overall goal is to redesign for a 1200XL case, since those cases are way more common than a 14xx case. I wish I could mod cases as well as some here on the site. It would take some planning to do it a 1200XL PBI mod right(to provide adequate spacing for attachments etcs), but not that hard. I have plenty of proof that's not one of my strong suites. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357529-building-testing-the-re-imaged-atari-1450xl/page/6/#findComment-5431431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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