Favorite book

[Appeelicious]

What's your favorite beginner's reference for programming? I think I want to roll up my sleeves and get some programming learning in this 2024. So what reference is good for starting almost from the ground up? I understand logic and am familiar with beginner c++, ti basic and Python. I will also follow a YouTube series or equivalent if one exists. 

[WhataKowinkydink]

Probably cliche but anything Computes! was good in my book.

[matthew180]

You did not specify what you are trying to learn.  These days "programming" in general is too vague, and "from the ground up" has a lot of different meanings.  Retro computer programming used to generally mean either BASIC or Assembly, but these days can also mean C, Pascal, and Forth, at the very least.  What you use will typically be influenced by what you want to do.

 

As mentioned in a previous post, all the COMPUTE!, and other, magazines that had type-in programs are a good place to learn.  But you have to type them in, otherwise no learning takes place.

 

However, since you are in a retro computer forum, and you said "from the ground up", I'll assume you mean assembly.  That being the case, then, IMO the Lottrup book is a good place to start when coupled with the Assembly-thread on this forum, the E/A manual chose at hand, and the 9900 and 9918A datasheets.  For tools, you will want an emulator and XDT99 at the very least.

 

I would recommend the E/A cartridge path vs the MiniMemory, but that is only because that's what I did.

 

Just make sure you don't fall into the trap of trying to understand too much all at once, or before getting started.  This is where the Lottrup book shines IMO.  Most texts start with boring crap like binary and hex notation, converting to/from decimal, and junk like that.  You DO NOT need to know that to get started.  You do not need to read the E/A manual (which is a reference anyway), or memorize opcodes, etc..  Just accept that you won't understand a lot of stuff at first, but you can still get going and get the computer to do things.  Write small programs to play with and reinforce learning, and to promote experimentation.  If you are not having fun, you will probably not follow through.  So make sure it is fun.

 

You will want to check out the Resource thread sticky at the top of the forum, since just about everything you will need is referenced in there.

 

https://forums.atariage.com/topic/153704-ti-994a-development-resources/

 

https://forums.atariage.com/topic/162941-assembly-on-the-994a/

 

https://oratronik.de/atariage/COMPUTES_beginners_guide_to_assembly_language_on_the_TI994A.pdf

 

[Appeelicious]

I have a mini memory and have an assembly cartridge. I heard the assembly cart is a little easier to learn on before. I'm missing both disk A and the line by line cassette tape but I have a tipi that I've embarrassingly only ever used for RoA (great game btw). 

 

I think I'll start really simple, then explore loops, play with recursion, and then sounds/graphics.

[RickyDean]

Of course this is not a book, but you can read about programming in 9900 assembly language, https://www.chibiakumas.com/tms9900/

[Appeelicious]

44 minutes ago, RickyDean said:

Of course this is not a book, but you can read about programming in 9900 assembly language, https://www.chibiakumas.com/tms9900/

Just another source on my reading list. There’s some good stuff for newbies here too.

[SteveB]

13 hours ago, Appeelicious said:

I have a mini memory and have an assembly cartridge.

If this is not part of your personal quest to do everything on the legacy system, use the PC for editing and assembling, Classic99 for debugging and the real hardware to enjoy the result once you are finished. Much more efficient and not less challenging or enlighning. 

[Appeelicious]

1 hour ago, SteveB said:

If this is not part of your personal quest to do everything on the legacy system, use the PC for editing and assembling, Classic99 for debugging and the real hardware to enjoy the result once you are finished. Much more efficient and not less challenging or enlighning. 

Maybe I can do a little on the legacy system, but do most of it on the PC. What do in most use? There's choices here too. Winasm99, TIasm and of course emulating and using the editor/assembler. I guess I can download everything and taste test. Do they all use the same syntax? I can eventually find out, but what does everyone else like and why? I still want to program some on read hardware too, but maybe learning is easier with the modern tools?

[+TheBF]

Starting Forth

Starting FORTH - FORTH, Inc

 

 

(Come on. You knew I had to say that)  

[Appeelicious]

15 minutes ago, TheBF said:

Starting Forth

Starting FORTH - FORTH, Inc

 

 

(Come on. You knew I had to say that)  

I think assembly will have my attention this year, but I'll keep forth in mind 😛

[+TheBF]

Just now, Appeelicious said:

I think assembly will have my attention this year, but I'll keep forth in mind 😛

Assembly language is an excellent first step before trying Forth.

Forth is closer to a macro assembler than a "language"... that is until you extend it. 

[Switch1995]

21 hours ago, Appeelicious said:

I will also follow a YouTube series or equivalent if one exists

NEWLINE99 made some very high quality YouTube videos on ASSM Introduction/Fundamentals and Integer/Floating Point.   I'm hoping he gets back into the hobby and continues the series.

 

 

[Appeelicious]

It certainly would be grand if there was more of this. Assembly is a bit esoteric for a beginner. I'll just need to keep at it until it makes sense and clicks in place.

[Kchula-Rrit]

I gobbled-up every bit of information I could find when I started out.  Compute! books, "Best of TI99er," and, of course the TI manuals that came with the computer and X-BASIC cartridge.  TI had a repair depot near where I worked, so I bought the Editor/Assembler manual from them.  They swapped my console when it died; should have enquired if they sold other equipment.  I used it to write a cassette-based text editor and assembler in X-BASIC.  Then I went into "information overload" and burned-out and put the TI stuff away for a while.  Then I botched a 16-bit memory expansion, which scared me into putting the equipment in a back room for many years.

Anyway, about languages.  I personally use C99, because I take the caveman approach and use my console with NanoPEB to write programs.  Use TI-DIR and TI994W if I need to examine registers and VDP stuff.  I tend to compile my C file to an assembly file, and then hand-tweak the assembly.  After that, it's just an assembly-language program...

Unfortunately, "life" seems to intervene, or interfere if you wish, so I haven't been using my TI like I would like to.  Not enough hours in the day.

K-R.

Edited December 26, 2023 by Kchula-Rrit

[Tursi]

4 hours ago, Appeelicious said:

Maybe I can do a little on the legacy system, but do most of it on the PC. What do in most use? There's choices here too. Winasm99, TIasm and of course emulating and using the editor/assembler. I guess I can download everything and taste test. Do they all use the same syntax? I can eventually find out, but what does everyone else like and why? I still want to program some on read hardware too, but maybe learning is easier with the modern tools?

I still use Winasm99 though I feel guilty when I do, because the xdt99 toolchain is far and away the best.

 

You need to get Python running, but it's not too hard.

 

https://github.com/endlos99/xdt99

 

[Appeelicious]

1 hour ago, Tursi said:

I still use Winasm99 though I feel guilty when I do, because the xdt99 toolchain is far and away the best.

 

You need to get Python running, but it's not too hard.

 

https://github.com/endlos99/xdt99

 

I think this is a rabbit hole that I'm not quite ready to toe my foot in to just yet. Maybe winasm99 isn't the best solution, but it feels a lot less intimidating. Not quite sure how to get started with xdt99. I think my biggest barrier is the act of beginning. Maybe someone will do a lovely how to because I'm sure those tools are powerful in the right hands. For now, I'll read and figure things out.

[Tursi]

Well, there is the assembly thread...  

 

 

[SteveB]

I use Fred Kaal's xa99 Cross-Assembler as it is a tiny command-line tool without any dependencies like python ... it is 100% E/A compatible, so no extensions like in Ralph's xdt99 tools.

 

[SteveB]

19 hours ago, Appeelicious said:

Assembly is a bit esoteric for a beginner.

With Harry's Extended BASIC Compiler and the XB256 extensions many of the dream-games of our childhood may come true without going into the depth of machine language. If you did some BASIC in the past and it was simply to slow for the game you were thinking about, this may be a valid option as well to join @Retrospect and me in doing fast-paced Extended BASIC games, like

• Robots of Death
• I'm not saying it's aliens .....
• Lunar Rescue
• Anubis
• ScuttleButt - Behind Enema Lines
• Extended Parsec
• ....

Steve

[RXB]

No book but Miller Graphics Smart Programmer mag is my favorite.

Next would be the Texas Instruments GPL Programmer Guide

Of course Texas Instruments Editor Assembler Manual

 

No real books I go with, but I do get alot from old Micropendiums

[+hloberg]

10 minutes ago, RXB said:

No book but Miller Graphics Smart Programmer mag is my favorite.

Next would be the Texas Instruments GPL Programmer Guide

Of course Texas Instruments Editor Assembler Manual

 

No real books I go with, but I do get alot from old Micropendiums

the book 'MG Smart Programming Guide for Sprites' was my bible on XB as a kid.

[+hloberg]

the red book 'Introduction to Assembly Language for the TI Home Computer' was the book that taught me Assembler as a kid (most I have forgotten since). Even though there was some errors in the book it was a well laid out and easy to follow. (by the way, can you believe you can still buy that book new. they must made a crap load of them).

[Appeelicious]

59 minutes ago, hloberg said:

the red book 'Introduction to Assembly Language for the TI Home Computer' was the book that taught me Assembler as a kid (most I have forgotten since). Even though there was some errors in the book it was a well laid out and easy to follow. (by the way, can you believe you can still buy that book new. they must made a crap load of them).

I actually have that one on the way.

[unhuman]

Where do you see them new?  On Amazon, they're used.  Thanks.

On 12/27/2023 at 1:06 PM, hloberg said:

the red book 'Introduction to Assembly Language for the TI Home Computer' was the book that taught me Assembler as a kid (most I have forgotten since). Even though there was some errors in the book it was a well laid out and easy to follow. (by the way, can you believe you can still buy that book new. they must made a crap load of them).

 

[+hloberg]

5 hours ago, unhuman said:

Where do you see them new?  On Amazon, they're used.  Thanks.

 

bought one on eBay new a few months ago. May not be many if any left.

edit: looks like they might be all gone on eBay.