Write .DSK/DOS 3.3 order image to floppy from ProDOS drive?

[TheGrandPubaa]

This is a slightly convoluted question, and probably not one that would have required a solution back in the day. I can run some ProDOS ordered software/disk images/etc. from my FujiNet on my Apple IIc, but any software that hasn't been converted over to run from a ProDOS drive doesn't work currently for me. I just want to know if it's possible to drop a disk image file onto a ProDOS drive image, load that drive up on the FujiNet, and then write the disk image to a real floppy disk(of which I have a very small handful)?
 

I know writing disk images is possible using ADTPro, but that requires a separate computer and serial cables which would end up being half the price of a FloppyEMU, which may eventually end up being what I do if I can't find any other cheaper solution that can work with my FujiNet.

[Iamgroot]

What disk format is on the FujiNet?

 

There is an application called "DSK2FILE" that writes disk images to a floppy in either DOS3.3 or ProDos format.  The disk image though has to be on a ProDos formatted hard drive.

 

If you are able to see inside any of the disk images and see the files themselves on the FujiNet, (this refers to Prodos files as you won't see DOS3.3 files, but you should still be able to mount a DOS3.3 disk image), then Copy2Plus can copy the files from the FujiNet disk image to a formated floppy disk.

 

 

[TheGrandPubaa]

11 hours ago, Iamgroot said:

What disk format is on the FujiNet?

 

There is an application called "DSK2FILE" that writes disk images to a floppy in either DOS3.3 or ProDos format.  The disk image though has to be on a ProDos formatted hard drive.

 

If you are able to see inside any of the disk images and see the files themselves on the FujiNet, (this refers to Prodos files as you won't see DOS3.3 files, but you should still be able to mount a DOS3.3 disk image), then Copy2Plus can copy the files from the FujiNet disk image to a formated floppy disk.

 

 

That worked! I opened a ProDOS 32 meg disk image using CiderPress and added the extracted files from the DSK2FILE archive and a test .DO disk image. The DSK2FILE software requires you to know the exact filename of the disk image prior to writing, unfortunately - it doesn't offer any sort of list of files option or anything modern and convenient - but after I wrote down the truncated file name, it wrote to a floppy disk. Thank you so much!

[nick3092]

Keep in mind this may not work for all 3.3 images. Some programs need to be tweaked for ProDOS. And probably not at all for any Pascal images (but I'm not sure of that). In the long run, a Floppy Emu or wDrive is your best bet for 100% image compatibility. They support nib and WOZ as well. The latter being the ideal image, as it is basically the disk as is - including working copy protection. 

[TheGrandPubaa]

On 1/9/2024 at 8:44 AM, nick3092 said:

Keep in mind this may not work for all 3.3 images. Some programs need to be tweaked for ProDOS. And probably not at all for any Pascal images (but I'm not sure of that). In the long run, a Floppy Emu or wDrive is your best bet for 100% image compatibility. They support nib and WOZ as well. The latter being the ideal image, as it is basically the disk as is - including working copy protection. 

I may eventually get one, but I am willing to work around the issue with the few blank disks I have for the time being. With luck, perhaps I will one day find a method to make the FujiNet work directly as if it were the internal drive and bypass the issue.

[masteries]

On 1/9/2024 at 3:44 PM, nick3092 said:

 a Floppy Emu or wDrive is your best bet for 100% image compatibility.

 

Be careful, the issue here is not related to Fujinet:

 

 

 

The issue is not really an issue, its a limitation of Apple IIc model computer

 

It applies to Fujinet and FloppyEmu, this text is extracted from "big mess of wires" shop/webpage:

 

 

"If you’re using a Floppy Emu disk emulator with an Apple IIc, you’ll want to see this: a switched adapter that can reassign the external 5.25 inch drive as internal, and the internal 5.25 inch drive as external. This little gizmo helps to work around the Apple IIc’s inability to boot from an externally-connected 5.25 inch drive. That shortcoming is a headache for 5.25 inch disk emulators like Floppy Emu. With this internal/external drive switcher, the limitation is now gone!

 
Background

 

The IIc has an internal built-in 5.25 inch floppy drive. The internal drive appears to the computer as slot 6, drive 1. If you connect an external 5.25 inch floppy drive, it will appear to the computer as slot 6, drive 2. Unfortunately the whole Apple II family is designed to check for a bootable disk in drive 1 only. The computer can boot from drive 1, and then use drive 2 as a secondary disk, but it can’t boot from drive 2. So for the IIc with its built-in drive 1, this means it can never boot from an external 5.25 inch drive.

 

An important detail: this limitation only applies to the Apple IIc with an external 5.25 inch drive. An external Smartport drive (like Floppy Emu when configured for Smartport hard disk emulation mode) appears to the computer as slot 5, drive 1, and is bootable.

 

Apple IIc owners who want to boot from an emulated 5.25 inch disk image are in a difficult spot. Until now, their best option has been to remove the top panel from the IIc, disconnect the internal floppy drive, and connect the Floppy Emu to the internal drive connector on the motherboard. This works fine for the Floppy Emu, but it means IIc owners forfeit their ability to use the internal drive.

"

 

 

 

 

 

 

Information source, as well extended info:  https://www.bigmessowires.com/2018/05/04/apple-iic-internalexternal-drive-switcher/

 

 

 

 

 

 

Briefly, Apple IIc, with a ROM greater than 255; can´t boot directly from an external disk drive

that is different from a Smartport based device.

 

Speculating, DOS 3.3 was deprecated in 1983, the Apple IIc was released in 1984;

the real good ROM firmwares for Apple IIc starts from version 0 to 4... they

expected to completely abandon DOS 3.3 in favour of SmartPort devices

and ProDOS volumes, but due to the inmense amount of Apple IIe and DOS 3.3

software... the transition was never accomplished at 100%

 

 

Tested: But it can boot automatically if the external disk drive is an Unidisk 3.5",

due to Unidisk 3.5" is a SmartPort based device;

with a ProDOS volume such the one I have with AppleWorks software diskette

 

 

 

In a future I will need to test it using the most simple and affordable solution as possible,

in order to swap internal/external drive,

 

Edited January 12 by masteries

[masteries]

On 1/10/2024 at 8:22 PM, TheGrandPubaa said:

I may eventually get one, but I am willing to work around the issue with the few blank disks I have for the time being. With luck, perhaps I will one day find a method to make the FujiNet work directly as if it were the internal drive and bypass the issue.

 

Be careful, read the previous post; as we dealed in our previous conversations,

this is due to a limitation of the Apple IIc; it can´t boot from external 5.25" inch drives.

 

This limitation applies to any kind of externally connected device that mimics a 5.25" inch

floppy, such Fujinet or FloppyEmu

 

 

Probably, the easier solution can be a set of jumper wires,

accesible externally, but I desire to test a possible easier solution,

 

the solution presented in big mess of wires appears to be

really simple and affordable to build, due to it fits internally,

and the jumper wires are externally accesible:

 

 

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

 Here there is an example of this limitation when using a FloppyEmu:

 

 

This sentence from user @nick3092 provides a clear explanation:

 

"My guess is that the //c rom doesn't expect a smartport device as the first device. It probably expects a 5.25 drive. A smartport device would normally only be connected to the external/drive 2 port. Basically, why would it try to boot a smartport device from drive 1 when drive 1 should always be a 5.25 floppy?

 

Pretty sure that's how my rom4 works (but it's been a while since I booted that with a smartport device). It spins the internal drive first, and if nothing is found in the drive, it then looks for a smartport device in the external port."

 

 

 

As a brief, if you desire to use s DOS 3.3 volume with a Fujinet, in an Apple IIc computer:

 

-Connect the Fujinet externally, as usual.

-Select the 5.25" disk image when the Fujinet boot ups as a SmartPort device

-Swap the drive selection signal, now the external device will be 5.25" floppy only

-Restart the computer

 

-Enjoy your 5.25" disk image

 

You need a simple way to swap the internal/extenal device,

such the one proposed at big mess of wires

 

 

 

 

Edited January 12 by masteries

[nick3092]

1 hour ago, masteries said:

 

Be careful, the issue here is not related to Fujinet:

 

 

 

The issue is not really an issue, its a limitation of Apple IIc model computer

 

It applies to Fujinet and FloppyEmu, this text is extracted from "big mess of wires" shop/webpage:

 

 

"If you’re using a Floppy Emu disk emulator with an Apple IIc, you’ll want to see this: a switched adapter that can reassign the external 5.25 inch drive as internal, and the internal 5.25 inch drive as external. This little gizmo helps to work around the Apple IIc’s inability to boot from an externally-connected 5.25 inch drive. That shortcoming is a headache for 5.25 inch disk emulators like Floppy Emu. With this internal/external drive switcher, the limitation is now gone!

 
Background

 

The IIc has an internal built-in 5.25 inch floppy drive. The internal drive appears to the computer as slot 6, drive 1. If you connect an external 5.25 inch floppy drive, it will appear to the computer as slot 6, drive 2. Unfortunately the whole Apple II family is designed to check for a bootable disk in drive 1 only. The computer can boot from drive 1, and then use drive 2 as a secondary disk, but it can’t boot from drive 2. So for the IIc with its built-in drive 1, this means it can never boot from an external 5.25 inch drive.

 

An important detail: this limitation only applies to the Apple IIc with an external 5.25 inch drive. An external Smartport drive (like Floppy Emu when configured for Smartport hard disk emulation mode) appears to the computer as slot 5, drive 1, and is bootable.

 

Apple IIc owners who want to boot from an emulated 5.25 inch disk image are in a difficult spot. Until now, their best option has been to remove the top panel from the IIc, disconnect the internal floppy drive, and connect the Floppy Emu to the internal drive connector on the motherboard. This works fine for the Floppy Emu, but it means IIc owners forfeit their ability to use the internal drive.

"

 

 

 

 

 

 

Information source, as well extended info:  https://www.bigmessowires.com/2018/05/04/apple-iic-internalexternal-drive-switcher/

 

 

 

 

 

 

Briefly, Apple IIc, with a ROM greater than 255; can´t boot directly from an external disk drive

that is different from a Smartport based device.

 

Speculating, DOS 3.3 was deprecated in 1983, the Apple IIc was released in 1984;

the real good ROM firmwares for Apple IIc starts from version 0 to 4... they

expected to completely abandon DOS 3.3 in favour of SmartPort devices

and ProDOS volumes, but due to the inmense amount of Apple IIe and DOS 3.3

software... the transition was never accomplished at 100%

 

 

Tested: But it can boot automatically if the external disk drive is an Unidisk 3.5",

due to Unidisk 3.5" is a SmartPort based device;

with a ProDOS volume such the one I have with AppleWorks software diskette

 

 

 

In a future I will need to test it using the most simple and affordable solution as possible,

in order to swap internal/external drive,

 

Then I stand corrected. I haven't really followed fujinet development that closely. I was under the impression it was a ProDOS only device like many other drive emulators outside of FE and wDrive.