Boschloo Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 I was wondering if anybody has a solution to the floppy disk uncertainty principle. You buy a floppy disk of something you really want, only to find out it doesn't work. You start thinking there's mould in the thing. Now you're paranoid that there's mould living in your floppy drive and that it's going to spread to your entire collection. How do check if a disk is safe to use?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimm1966 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 If you look at the disk it will have a mottled matte texture to it. Some people have had luck with carefully cleaning the disk with IPA, but YMMV. I have no idea if the mold will transfer between floppy's, you can always clean the drive between disks although that would be a lot of work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 It is a gamble every time. You can spin the disk by hand in its jacket and look for the obvious signs, but not all contamination or degradation is obvious. As @Grimm1966 says, some people will clean their disks with isopropyl alcohol. I will use a 70% solution for cleaning disk in a poor man's "clean room" setup in which I remove the disk from the original jacket and so on. Listen for squealing from the drive and immediately remove the disk if you hear it as it is likely either the media sticking to the head and causing vibration (an indication of a breakdown of the coating over the magnetic recording media,) or it is something lodged against the head scraping media off the disk. Be aware that some disks squeal when used, anyway, but I work to move data from those disks as quickly as possible. Keep a head cleaning disk or cleaning apparatus handy and clean the head if you suspect the disk was bad (contamination on the head can and will ruin other disks.) YMMV. Godspeed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boschloo Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 This is all because I need to load CP/M system disks. Hey, wasn't there a guy named Admiral who sold hard drives for Commodores a couple years ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boschloo Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 And what do you think of this? https://www.ebay.com/itm/303620862566 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 16 minutes ago, Boschloo said: And what do you think of this? https://www.ebay.com/itm/303620862566 Looks medieval and unnecessary. 19 minutes ago, Boschloo said: This is all because I need to load CP/M system disks. Hey, wasn't there a guy named Admiral who sold hard drives for Commodores a couple years ago? It was a series of hard drives called the Rear Admiral, clone of the CMD HD series. I think it might have had an optional parallel interface along with the CBM serial port. The same guy also sold some 1.44MB floppy drives, clones of the CMD FD-series. I have not seen either of them up for sale for a while. I had given though to picking up a unit, but I got my hands on a CMD HD unit and upgraded it with an SD2SCSI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boschloo Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 1 minute ago, OLD CS1 said: but I got my hands on a CMD HD unit and upgraded it with an SD2SCSI. I'm never going to be that lucky to find one. Maybe the Admiral guy died. People our age aren't around much. Half the boys from my high school class passed away. Hard drives were the game changer. I think the C128 would have lasted a lot longer had it come with a hard drive. Is there no DIY to add a SCSI controller to the C128? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Just now, Boschloo said: Is there no DIY to add a SCSI controller to the C128? The Ultimate 1541-II and SD2IEC provide large storage spaces (e.g. CMD "native" partitions, storage filesystem access.) I am not sure about SCSI solutions, and I am not certain one is needed. I am not familiar with anyone using something like a Zip drive or CD with the Commodore, the way we used them with Amiga, &c. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boschloo Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 Haven't been able to find the Ultimate 1541-II anywhere. I do have an SDIEC on one of the C64s. But I don't know how that would help me load CP/M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 hour ago, Boschloo said: Haven't been able to find the Ultimate 1541-II anywhere. I do have an SDIEC on one of the C64s. But I don't know how that would help me load CP/M. Ah, yeah, CP/M. Check this out. https://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=70202 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 hours ago, Boschloo said: Haven't been able to find the Ultimate 1541-II anywhere. I have one. You wanna know why? I buy all of the stuffs! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 8 hours ago, eightbit said: I have one. You wanna know why? I buy all of the stuffs! I have one, too! But I only buy some of the stuffs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boschloo Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 Starting next month I'm just going to start selling all of the stuffs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Perhaps I don't exchange floppy disks with enough number of people, but I can't recall ever coming across disks that were moldy or otherwise smeared. They may have bit rot but that is another matter and usually nothing that affects the floppy drive heads. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 44 minutes ago, carlsson said: Perhaps I don't exchange floppy disks with enough number of people, but I can't recall ever coming across disks that were moldy or otherwise smeared. I usually find them among collections which have been stored in a garage or attic in poor conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boschloo Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 6 hours ago, OLD CS1 said: I usually find them among collections which have been stored in a garage or attic in poor conditions. I ordered this https://www.ebay.com/itm/255446346569 I hope it solves some of my problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 22 minutes ago, Boschloo said: I ordered this https://www.ebay.com/itm/255446346569 I hope it solves some of my problems. What problems do you hope to solve with this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boschloo Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 9 hours ago, OLD CS1 said: What problems do you hope to solve with this? If indeed it lets me connect a 1571 to a PC, then maybe I can create new CP/M system floppy disks through an emulator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 1 hour ago, Boschloo said: If indeed it lets me connect a 1571 to a PC, then maybe I can create new CP/M system floppy disks through an emulator. If you can muster the Voodoo of the cbmxfer tools, you can write the CP/M disks without an emulator. There are D64s and D71s of CP/M disks out there, and at least one collection of them. Also be aware the directory will show as corrupt, or it will be empty and the disk full, when viewed with such utilities as track 18 sector 0 will either contain data from a CP/M file or a pseudo CBM directory block. CP/M uses a different directory structure than CBM DOS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+retroclouds Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Interesting topic. Fun story. I found a disk for the Texas Instruments TI-99/4a with school work stuff I did when I was 15. I was able to read all the files on the disk on the TI without any issues. Worked perfectly on 1st shot. I’m 51. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 If floppies are stored properly (in cases, in good climate controlled environments) they can last a very long time. I have disks over 40 years old that work fine. That said however, even with proper storage you just never know when they are going to start having read issues due purely to age. Even back in the day I had brand new disks fail on me out of nowhere. I have also had CD's bitrot, hard drives and USB drives fail and so on. I used to say the only somewhat reliable method of storage is etching your data into rock. They actually did that. I guess we'll have to check M-Disc's in 1000 years and see how they hold up. For mold on disks...I have seen it too. I've never seen it contaminate a drive and move to other disks...but then again if a disk looks like crap I won't put it into a drive I care about. Nowadays though I barely use disks. Floppy drive emulators and actively improving firmware (Gotek and Flashfloppy) are a Godsend. I use these everywhere I can now from vintage PC's, Amiga, and even an old SNES copier. Finally I have 100% reliability out of floppy disks...in image format 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick3092 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Here is an example of a moldy disk from my childhood that over the years my parents had improperly stored. Using one of the disk cleaning frames linked to earlier in the tread, I cleaned it multiple times with a microfiber cloth and 99% IPA. Once dry, I spun it multiple times all the way around to make sure nothing was getting picked up from the jacket, then imaged it, and cleaned my drive head afterward to be safe. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boschloo Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 32 minutes ago, nick3092 said: Using one of the disk cleaning frames linked to earlier So you do recommend the product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick3092 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 minute ago, Boschloo said: So you do recommend the product. It's worked for me to salvage/image disks. Just need to make sure it's fully clean and nothing else is reappearing on the surface before you stick it in the drive. Then clean the head after. Make sure both sides are clean too. Even though the head reads the "bottom" of the disk (relative to which side was inserted up), there is a felt pad that applies pressure to the side not being read. You don't want to get mold or dirt on that pad either. But like anything in life, your mileage may vary. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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