THE400 Mini

[pjedavison]

18 minutes ago, www.atarimania.com said:

Well, guess any publicity is good publicity...

 

In our defense, our page clearly states we're missing the original disk image (yes, I know it's available as an .atx now, it just hasn't been added to our site yet). 

 

If you're going to pay a license and charge something, at least be 100% professional and either:

- play the title thoroughly to check everything works fine

- get the preserved disk which is also available, although from another source

- if you don't know here to look, discreetly ask archivists where / how to get a fully functional version

 

None of this was done, which is a bit sad.

 

Just to clarify, no-one is blaming you here  As I said in my previous post, more often than not this situation arises because licensors are happy to say "sure, you can use our game" but not actually have a suitable archived copy which can be, y'know, used. And that inevitably leads to the licensee having to track down their own copy, which often leads to its own issues.

 

As you say, there's plenty of additional due diligence which could (and should) have been done here, but that entirely falls on Retro Games and not you. I doubt there's a single person here who doesn't appreciate all the hard work you and the other Atarimania contributors have done over the years! So apologies if you took any of the discussion above as a slight. It's absolutely not your fault.

 

I will say one thing: tracking down working disk images/executable files of Atari software that hasn't been defaced by crackers is a hell of a lot easier than in the C64 scene...!

[+MrFish]

6 hours ago, Fred_M said:

As promised, here is a direct capture of the Instrumentarium music playing on the 400 mini. I am curious to know what you think of the audio quality 🙂

 

 

I give it an A+. I carefully compared it with the latest version of Altirra and with real hardware; and as far as I can tell it didn't miss a single instrument/trick in the whole tune (of which there are a lot).

 

So, now I'm wondering exactly what @Romuluz is referring to when he says, "the sound is not good". I'd like to have some kind of concrete example as to what isn't good about it.

 

[Edit]

Thanks @Fred_M for posting the audio capture.

 

[+DjayBee]

54 minutes ago, www.atarimania.com said:

yes, I know it's available as an .atx now, it just hasn't been added to our site yet

Since EA's games are somewhat demanding in regard to copy protection, you might also add Diaperboy's cracks for people who cannot fulfill the requirements.

[+MrFish]

Has anyone run Acid v1.2 on the system yet?

 

This will answer a lot of questions about the quality of emulation.

 

Here are the versions for testing the 8-bit computers and the 5200.

 

[Edit]

Moved to a new thread...

 

[www.atarimania.com]

44 minutes ago, pjedavison said:

Just to clarify, no-one is blaming you here  As I said in my previous post, more often than not this situation arises because licensors are happy to say "sure, you can use our game" but not actually have a suitable archived copy which can be, y'know, used. And that inevitably leads to the licensee having to track down their own copy, which often leads to its own issues.

 

As you say, there's plenty of additional due diligence which could (and should) have been done here, but that entirely falls on Retro Games and not you. I doubt there's a single person here who doesn't appreciate all the hard work you and the other Atarimania contributors have done over the years! So apologies if you took any of the discussion above as a slight. It's absolutely not your fault.

Don't worry, no offense taken. We understand we're exposed to criticism.

[+Philsan]

@Ben from Plaion reads 2600+ forums and works with coders to remove bugs and enhance the product.

 

Does someone from Retro Games read this forum?

[+Philsan]

Perhaps not everyone knows that a good source of files is Homesoft.

Games are in XEX and ATR format (when XEX isn't available), continually updated and cleaned - no intros, no unpacking delays, no glitches.

If you click on "download all" on the right, you'll get all games inside A-Z folders.

[+Fred_M]

I just realized that the "help" function key is not available in the virtual keyboard and is also not mapped to a key of my USB keyboard. I know this function key is not used much, but I think it is weird that it is not available in the virtual keyboard especially when I found out that the 4 F-keys of the 1200XL are mapped to the F1 to F4 keys of my USB keyboard.

 

Edit: I was able to map a joystick button to the Help key by changing the cfg-file of software loaded from the USB  drive. Thanks @pjedavison !!

 

 

Edited March 29 by Fred_M

[Irgendwer]

2 hours ago, MrFish said:

So, now I'm wondering exactly what @Romuluz is referring to when he says, "the sound is not good". I'd like to have some kind of concrete example as to what isn't good about it.

Maybe it comes from the YouTube encoding, but if not, I would also say that the sound in this section of the vid is not good:

Regarding that SysInfo 1.8 doesn't show 100% performance, could it be that the CPU is too weak for full-featured audio if lot of cycles are burned for the display?

Edited March 29 by Irgendwer

[pjedavison]

16 minutes ago, Irgendwer said:

Maybe it comes from the YouTube encoding, but if not, I would also say that the sound in this section of the vid is not good:

Regarding that SysInfo 1.8 doesn't show 100% performance, could it be that the CPU is too weak for full-featured audio if lot of cycles are burned for the display?

That music sounds the same in Altirra to me. I think it's just like that.

[+MrFish]

44 minutes ago, Irgendwer said:

Maybe it comes from the YouTube encoding, but if not, I would also say that the sound in this section of the vid is not good:

Did you listen to the original on Altirra or real hardware? It sounds as it was programmed, to me.

 

27 minutes ago, pjedavison said:

That music sounds the same in Altirra to me. I think it's just like that.

I'm pretty sure this is the case.

 

One problem is that the reviewer doesn't play the title music very long. So, it's harder to make a judgement; but I don't hear anything different in Altirra.

 

[pjedavison]

2 minutes ago, MrFish said:

Did you listen to the original on Altirra or real hardware? It sounds as it was programmed, to me.

 

I'm pretty sure this is the case.

 

One problem is that the reviewer doesn't play the title music very long. So, it's harder to make a judgement; but I don't hear anything different in Altirra.

 

That reviewer is me, btw.  Later in the video, I do a comparison of the "Instrumentarium" demo, which people seem to think is a good workout for the virtual POKEY chip. Sounds pretty much identical on The400 Mini and Altirra.

[Rockymin]

I just received mine and man, is Amazon getting cheap with shipping.  They just slipped it in a plastic bag and slapped a shipping label on it. I hope it works.  Gotta set it up and see now.

[+MrFish]

25 minutes ago, pjedavison said:

That reviewer is me, btw.

Ah, ok, didn't recognize you. BTW, I wasn't criticizing you for not playing the title music longer: I was just saying that it was a problem for ascertaining the accuracy of that particular music.

 

25 minutes ago, pjedavison said:

Later in the video, I do a comparison of the "Instrumentarium" demo, which people seem to think is a good workout for the virtual POKEY chip. Sounds pretty much identical on The400 Mini and Altirra.

I was just getting ready to watch your review here.

 

I did a comparison of Instrumentarium from the The400 Mini (with the help of @Fred_M ) against Altirra and real hardware and it passed the test very well (as noted in my reply about it).

 

And, yes, I chose Instrumentarium because it utilizes features of the sound chip that are uncommon; so, it's good test for POKEY audio accuracy.

 

[Justin42]

EDIT: It's alive! It really does need a low power, USB A to C adapter, just like it says in the manual. I assumed (I know) that any 2024 released device would kick down any input it got over USB-C but apparently not. Booted up perfectly with a low power A to C cord. Nothing USB C to USB C worked, even on a lower powered battery.

 

sigh. Read the manual word for word and don't make assumptions. (Although I suspect I'm not going to be the only person who runs into this problem!) 

 

----original message:

I probably already know the answer and it's likely DOA, but ... is there any trick to actually turning it on?

 

I've tried a Switch power adapter, a powerful enough USB battery pack, a few different cables.... pushing the button does nothing. Is it at all picky/is there any reason to keep trying?

 

(I also got the crappy Amazon "shipped in a barely padded paper envelope" packaging and am not happy about it, although I sort of doubt it's why it's DOA)

 

 

Edited March 30 by Justin42

[Sean_1970]

3 hours ago, Justin42 said:

EDIT: It's alive! It really does need a low power, USB A to C adapter, just like it says in the manual. I assumed (I know) that any 2024 released device would kick down any input it got over USB-C but apparently not. Booted up perfectly with a low power A to C cord. Nothing USB C to USB C worked, even on a lower powered battery.

 

sigh. Read the manual word for word and don't make assumptions. (Although I suspect I'm not going to be the only person who runs into this problem!) 

 

----original message:

I probably already know the answer and it's likely DOA, but ... is there any trick to actually turning it on?

 

I've tried a Switch power adapter, a powerful enough USB battery pack, a few different cables.... pushing the button does nothing. Is it at all picky/is there any reason to keep trying?

 

(I also got the crappy Amazon "shipped in a barely padded paper envelope" packaging and am not happy about it, although I sort of doubt it's why it's DOA)

 

 

I think the biggest issue people face with this device and the 2600+ is how crap the USB “standard” is generally. Power delivery was an add-on so out the gate you have the problem that not all computer USB ports will supply power sufficient to run a lot of devices - heck the Wii U needed two ports to drive a laptop hard drive! Then there’s the issue that not all cables will carry the required amount of juice - I’ve had this issue with my iPad annd a generic USB-C to A cable. Apple 2m one did the trick and came with a wattage rating 🙄. And lastly you have manufacturers using certain pins and not others. I have Wii U pro controllers which have a USB mini jack and cannot charge with anything other than the supplied cable. The PS3 controller was the same, having a USB micro port (the absolute worst form-factor next to USB3) but using an extra pin as some kind of voltage regulator, IIRC, so you couldn’t use a standard USB charger - really stupid though I guess it sold a lot of dedicated PS3 charging devices. Consequently I’ve learned to only use supplied cables and chargers and if no charger is supplied to use a powered USB hub which should be able to deal with a range of power requirements (this drives my Wii U hard drive, my 2600+ and my 400Mini).

 

I very much hope a new standard will replace USB sooner rather than later as USB-C being widely used as a form-factor for power without devices actually being USB-C compliant continues the confusion. HDMI is almost as bad, but it’s a newer standard so give it time to get REALLY crap! Hopefully next time engineers will contemplate the end-user experience from day one with the perspective of someone who isn’t a propeller head and get it right.

[deffroe]

Not sure if this combo has been mentioned already.  I've just tested my 400mini using a 20000mah power bank that has 2x usb A outputs.  5V 2.1A and a QC.  Using the 5V2.1A worked perfectly!

Will NOT use the QC port as they can output various voltages from 5v to 12v with varying amps too.  What I would suggest is that any USB brick/phone charger to be used has no type of Turbo/QC features.  

[Preppie]

Without thinking I just used my Samsung brick and it worked fine (5v/2a & 9v/1.67a QC)

 

[pjedavison]

5V and at least 1.1A (2A seems to be a "sweet spot" for many similar gizmos) is generally fine for devices like this. And, as others have said, avoid "quick/fast charge" ports/plugs as those can play havoc with things not expecting the variable... whatever it is they vary.

[FaberfoX]

2 hours ago, pjedavison said:

5V and at least 1.1A (2A seems to be a "sweet spot" for many similar gizmos) is generally fine for devices like this. And, as others have said, avoid "quick/fast charge" ports/plugs as those can play havoc with things not expecting the variable... whatever it is they vary.

All decent USB power supplies never output more than 5V until they negotiate it with the device on the other end, through one of the existing QC or PD protocols. It's usually safer to use a charger from a good brand phone / tablet than a cheap no-name one that are likely badly regulated and either output over 5.1V or drop the output as the load increases.

[Troyzilla]

I tried using these wireless SNES controllers with usb dongles
https://rebrand.ly/3xazrbc

The left and right D-pad work in the menu, but the only buttons that work are
A=up button
L=left button
Y=right button

B does nothing
X does nothing
Select does nothing
Start does nothing
R does nothing
Nothing mapped to [MENU] or F (which is a huge deal-breaker) and the D-pad didn't seem to work in the games, just the menu.

So I guess I have to find another wireless controller (I have dogs that make stretching a wire across the floor a non-starter).

Does anyone have recommendations?

[Preppie]

1 hour ago, Troyzilla said:

So I guess I have to find another wireless controller (I have dogs that make stretching a wire across the floor a non-starter).

Does anyone have recommendations?

 

Get rid of the dogs.

[pjedavison]

5 hours ago, Troyzilla said:

So I guess I have to find another wireless controller (I have dogs that make stretching a wire across the floor a non-starter).

Does anyone have recommendations?

 

Have you tried 8bitdo's stuff? They seem to be the gold standard for a lot of retro enthusiasts (at least in the console space), and compatibility is generally pretty good.

[+remowilliams]

8 hours ago, Troyzilla said:

Does anyone have recommendations?

2 hours ago, pjedavison said:

Have you tried 8bitdo's stuff? They seem to be the gold standard for a lot of retro enthusiasts (at least in the console space), and compatibility is generally pretty good.

I've started a thread for 3rd party controllers and already found two 8bitdo that work.

 

 

[linkster]

Anyone tried to load a homemade Atari800 game from the USB stick?

Manual doesn't tell you what it should look like in order to be recognized by MEDIA ACCESS pane.  

Mine looks like This:   Mygame.xfd

or like this:    /USB stick/Mygame.xfd

What am I doing wrong?

I can't figure out how to select and launch it

The screen shows 2P+  next to an icon that probably means "stick inserted".

BASIC is the only thing on the stick that I can select, it seems.