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Dan Kitchen finds another lost proto...


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National Videogame Museum (Facebook)

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Featured in this month’s edition of the NVM Newsletter is something very special!

Programmer Dan Kitchen recently unearthed and donated his source code for his long-lost Activision 2600 prototype, The Levee Game (1983) to the National Videogame Museum!

Also known as “The Dam Game”, the object is to guide Keystone Kelly around various platforms while repairing cracks in the dam. Players can also maneuver barrels under the leaks to collect the water to keep the flood at bay. Players need to keep the rising water at the bottom of the screen in check, because if it reaches the top, it's game over!

Unreleased Activision games for the Atari 2600 are few and far between these days, but as many unreleased and prototype Atari 2600 games have found new life in recent years, we can only hope that The Levee Game can one day be completed and released as well!

 

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I have no idea if the proto cart showed up at the museum like the last one where I just happened by extreme luck to be there when Dan made an appearance with the KK2 proto.  If video of the game doesn't appear shortly they may only have the source code docs.

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Yeah, sounds great, so let’s do the math shall we?

 

So we are currently in February 2024 and have been waiting since July 2018 which was when he donated the previous proto cartridge to the museum.

 

Over 5 years later and guess what, we still don’t have the rom. And now here we go again.

 

Donating to that museum is equivalent to locking something up and throwing away the key. It’s completely pointless.

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1 hour ago, Supergun said:

Donating to that museum is equivalent to locking something up and throwing away the key. It’s completely pointless.

Just playing devil's advocate here -

 

There seems to be a lot of anger, or angst, towards the NVGM in this community i've seen in other threads here.  I don't know much about them, other than the fact that I went there in 2017.

 

There are many things in many museums that aren't available to the public.

 

Now, if a museum simply keeps the stuff in a backroom or in a vault, then I agree it is pointless.

 

If they have it on display, then go see it.  That's the point of a museum.  Isn't it?

 

You can go to a museum to go see the Mona Lisa, or the Crown Jewels, or King Tut.  There are museums all over the place that have one of kind objects, most on display, but I know most museums do have a backroom/storage/vault where they keep stuff that can't readily be displayed.

 

Is this so much different?  Other than the fact that this retro-community is used to having direct access to "almost" every rom, like it is their birthright.  Don't get me wrong, if the rom is posted, i would download it, too.  :) 

 

Now it has been many years since I've been to the NVGM, but I don't recall seeing a section that displays "found "lost" prototypes" - which is a shame.  Maybe since my visit they've added a Dan Kitchen area, or a NVGM Exclusive area where they display what people have donated to them.

 

If they have these rare finds, then they should have them on display.

 

All that being said, as I was walking around in the NVGM museum, I couldn't help but wonder how this place can remain open long term.

 

From Wikipedia:

 

History
Beginning in 1999, John Hardie, Sean Kelly and Joe Santulli hosted the first Classic Gaming Expo in Las Vegas to organize "the world's first event paying tribute to the people, systems and games of yesteryear". The Video Game Museum was a traveling exhibition of classic games and systems that was shown at the Expo, as well as displayed at such trade conventions as E3 (Electronic Entertainment Expo) and GDC (Game Developers Conference).

 

In 2011, the founders started a Kickstarter campaign in an effort to mobilize their archive as a first step towards finding a permanent location, to be known as the Videogame History Museum.

 

On September 18, 2014, the Frisco Community Development Corporation board voted unanimously to bring the Videogame History Museum to Frisco, Texas, although it was not their first choice. Their preferred location was Silicon Valley.

 

The 10,400-square-foot (970 m2) National Videogame Museum opened in April 2016 in the Frisco Discovery Center.

 

So it seems that it started as a private collection that they've been attempting to grow into something more prestigious.

 

I was there in April 2017, so just a year after they've opened in this location.  I did not know that at that time.

 

 

 

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It fascinates me how this comparison is always used as the go-to point by those arguing it. And granted, on the surface, it seems logical to most people when they hear it.

But here’s the KEY point that gets overlooked and is always omitted from the comparison.

The one-of-a-kind paintings, pictures, records, music, films, videos, books, etc. at museums are all inspected, documented, and duplicated. Hell, the gift shops in the very museums themselves that display them literally sell copies, reprints, and reproductions of them!

So if/when someone wants to use the museum “example”, they need to take into account the FULL specifics of it. Because when you get down to it, it’s perfectly obvious how this would apply to a video game. Video games are “enjoyed” by PLAYING them. Video games are “controlled audio/visual media”. And as such, the museum serves their purpose by allowing them to be “enjoyed” by the public in that way!

Through these museums, the public can SEE these pictures and paintings, HEAR these symphonies and songs, READ these manuscripts and books, and PLAY these video games.

We (the public) aren’t asking to touch the original Mona Lisa, run the original Zapruder Film through a projector, handle Shakespeare’s handwritten poetry with our hands, etc. And by this same comparison, if the museum wants to place Kitchen’s original proto behind a 6 inch thick bullet proof glass display case surrounded by electric shock barriers, more power to them.

But just as we can buy a print of the Mona Lisa at the gift shop to hang on our walls or download a DVD/BluRay copy of the Zapruder Film, we should just as easily be able to get a ROM copy of Kitchen’s game to play at home.

So, to the point, NO, it is NOT our “God given right” to have instant and free access to the rom data of any and every video game ever made. In fact quite the opposite if you ask me. However, in this particular case, when the game in question was in the hands of an individual who PURPOSEFULLY and SPECIFICALLY donated it to the museum under good intentions for the public’s benefit and historical preservation, then YES, it is absolutely a scenario where the museum should provide the rom to the public and is in essence INSULTING our intelligence by not doing so.

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I agree with Supergun and I ask, why Dan didn't give the rom to everyone?

Maybe now, we'll never see this rom. Only an image as many we have on old magazines, with games never released (i.e. Dracula for Colecovision).

 

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Not completely accurate there.

 

Keystone Kannonball a.k.a. Keystone Kapers 2 was supposed to be completed as Gold Rush and released after Circus Convoy.

 

Circus Convoy, while using some elements and similar mechanics from the Keystone proto, was not a sequel or follow up story.

 

Kitchen also stated that the rom for the Keystone 2 proto would be released after Gold Rush; neither of which happened.

 

(never mind Bon Voyage, which was also planned as a future title)

 

None of these things (other than Circus Convoy) happened. Getting a newly made Homebrew title is not the same thing as getting the rom of a proper time period unreleased proto. They’re not even in the same neighborhood. One of them is far more historically significant then the other.

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First of all: I'm glad to hear that source code is brought to a museum and not thrown away.

That last thing is my worst nightmare.

Also, it's not true that the NVGM is not sharing ROMs.

John Hardie (one of the founders and director of the NVGM) donated many Atari 8 bit prototype ROMs to Atarimania, for which our team is very grateful.


In case of Keystone Cannonball, The Levee Game (and also Rob Fulop's Actionauts): I truly hope the ROMs of the original prototypes will be donated as well.

I can understand that these programmers are perhaps not too eager to share the old original unfinished version after they've released the finished one (perhaps there's a little ego thing going at this point?) 

But IMO these original prototype ROMs are an important part of video game history that should be enjoyed by everyone for the reasons Supergun already mentioned.

To me, sharing the ROM of a game with the public is the safest way to keep the game safe for the future.

And if people want to see the original cartridge, they can go visit the museum, read about its history, watch a video of the programmer, etc.

Just like movies: enjoy the copy and archive the original reels.

 

 

Now, private collectors who got hold of unique material and put it in a vault never to be seen and enjoyed again by any other person... that's a different story.

We'll have to wait until they die and hope their relatives don't throw their stuff away.

It's as simple as that.

 

8)

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Good points, Rom! John has served the community well and deserves much respect and credit for what he has accomplished and shared.

 

What your post brings to mind is the Blue Sky Rangers who have sequestered M-Network ROMs we’d all like to play. Doing so is a disservice to the community.

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I've spoken to John abut these.  He said he would talk to Dan and see what he wants done with them.  I know we all want the roms for these released, but in the end it's up to the programmer.  John has been very generous in the past and has released what prototypes he can but sometimes there are legal reasons or other reasons a prototype can't be released.   I'm just happy that these are being preserved instead of lost forever.

 

Apparently the Levee Game is just a one screen demo.  It's not really a game that you can win.

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1 hour ago, bfstats said:

What your post brings to mind is the Blue Sky Rangers who have sequestered M-Network ROMs we’d all like to play. Doing so is a disservice to the community.

With those roms I understand.  There are legal/licensing issues that would prevent their release (although I'm not sure what prevented them from releasing Search for the Golden Skull other than it wasn't developed by them).  I think they released all the roms that they legally could, although I wonder what happened to some of the games that were only demos.  Did they get lost when Mattel shut the Intellivision department down?

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1 hour ago, Tempest said:

With those roms I understand.  There are legal/licensing issues that would prevent their release.


No argument, so I’m glad you clarified. That does NOT, however, prevent the application of a little passive/aggressive pressure on whomever owns the copyrights. It’s fair to wonder if they’re being renewed and, if not, will they eventually become public domain?

 

Does anyone here really care if unrenewed copyrights from the early 80s are violated by the release of these ROMs? I would genuinely like to know who would lose potential profit if/when they are distributed.

 

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If something was not done, it's possible it simply slipped John's mind.  FWIW, the museum is very focused on archiving and displaying physical material. You also won't meet a kinder man than Dan Kitchen, and if he's not allowed a rom release, it could be that he has "plans" for it.  I'm not sure what happened with Casey's Gold, it seems to have been stymied, maybe he was waiting for that?

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6 hours ago, Tempest said:

Apparently the Levee Game is just a one screen demo.  It's not really a game that you can win.


Yes, whereby making the INSTANTANEOUS release of the rom of absolutely no consequence to the museum. As they still maintain the original and received it for free anyway.

 

One other point I’d like to make here (which subsequently paints these so called “museums” into an even darker light) is that they often receive these items as donations. (as was the case here, and twice in a row no less) And these museums are entities, consisting of multiple people, as opposed to an individual person. Where as an individual may have hunted down and acquired a rare game at a great personal loss and expense of time and money. We are quick to vilify these individuals as “rom hoarders”, with no regard given to their loss or sacrifice. Yet we are quick to defend these museums which are mostly “non profit” and whose acquisitions are funded by the very public (us) that supports them, or even worse from free donations?!

 

Look, I’m not trying to discredit or destroy all of these museums/websites whose founders and members function as modern historians or preservationists. But don’t call yourself a museum if you’re really just a repository. There is something inherently WRONG when getting a games rom freed from a “museum” is literally HARDER to accomplish than trying to get it freed from a rom hoarder! And trust me! It is! Because while items at a museum are “not for sale”, when it comes to individuals, money talks and bullshit walks.

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So a likely sticking point with some of this material is that Activision does technically own those games, which means now Microsoft owns em. Some of the old time programmers don't want to incur the wrath of a major corporation nowadays for an old game. Similarly I don't think the BSR folks are willing to risk opening themselves up legally (though now that Atari owns both the M-Network library and the Stern library, in theory they could reissue Anteater any time they want, and probably have more money to make some of the others possible too). There *is* a DCMA exemption hearing later this year where some groups are going to argue for remote access to video games by museums and libraries that are not commercially available, something very few museums and libraries are really equipped to do but that the NVM would likely be very well placed for given the bevy of stuff they have. I don't necessarily need to have a copy of Keystone Cannonball but being able to "rent" it on a website for an hour or something would cover me well. If they can get that carveout (which all other kinds of software already have based on the last DMCA exemption cycle) I think that'd be a game changer for these archives.

 

My only lament with the NVM is that they currently have no way for researchers to go through their archive for research. I'd love to spend a week going through their Atari, CommaVid, etc. papers and memos, either in person or through some kind of web interface. Being able to go through RCA papers at the Hagley Museum or Atari and Fairchild documents at the Strong were massively helpful for my work - same with delving into Bally related papers on ballyalley.com. 

Edited by ubersaurus
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3 hours ago, ubersaurus said:

(though now that Atari owns both the M-Network library and the Stern library, in theory they could reissue Anteater any time they want, and probably have more money to make some of the others possible too)


And so with the above, you indirectly bring up my next point of contention.

 

So, how exactly does Atari (who allegedly now “owns” the m-network library) go about releasing something that THEY DON’T EVEN HAVE?

 

In other words, the current “Atari” which has been bought and sold and chopped up into pieces and moved across the country, etc. doesn’t have so much as a file cabinet, or a hard drive, or a cartridge, (or any other copy) of say for example the Atari 2600 Anteater data. They simply DON’T have it. Period.

 

Yes, it happens to be in the hands of BSR, and we happen to know this, but Atari doesn’t know this. (it can’t even be proven for that matter!) And even if/when informed of this, so what?! What can they do? It’s NOT their property (physical or digital) Unless BSR SELLS it to Atari, (by their own choice) why should or would they give it to Atari? They aren’t compelled to do so by any means. (I’m no fan of BSR but in this example they certainly have rights)

 

The entire situation is laughable! Imagine an old man losing his watch at the beach in the 1980’s and some kid finds it 10 years later, hangs onto it for 30 years, and suddenly after 40 years, the old mans son comes out of nowhere and says: “oh yeah, that belonged to my father and you have to give it back.”

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1 hour ago, Supergun said:


And so with the above, you indirectly bring up my next point of contention.

 

So, how exactly does Atari (who allegedly now “owns” the m-network library) go about releasing something that THEY DON’T EVEN HAVE?

 

In other words, the current “Atari” which has been bought and sold and chopped up into pieces and moved across the country, etc. doesn’t have so much as a file cabinet, or a hard drive, or a cartridge, (or any other copy) of say for example the Atari 2600 Anteater data. They simply DON’T have it. Period.

 

Yes, it happens to be in the hands of BSR, and we happen to know this, but Atari doesn’t know this. (it can’t even be proven for that matter!) And even if/when informed of this, so what?! What can they do? It’s NOT their property (physical or digital) Unless BSR SELLS it to Atari, (by their own choice) why should or would they give it to Atari? They aren’t compelled to do so by any means. (I’m no fan of BSR but in this example they certainly have rights)

 

The entire situation is laughable! Imagine an old man losing his watch at the beach in the 1980’s and some kid finds it 10 years later, hangs onto it for 30 years, and suddenly after 40 years, the old mans son comes out of nowhere and says: “oh yeah, that belonged to my father and you have to give it back.”

There's nothing to suggest that they don't have the data, or that the BSR would be prickly about it if requested. The chain of ownership is pretty clear cut who had it given that their own website indicates they showed off their unreleased games at CGE years ago. It's also kind of unclear if Intellivision Productions actually bought the M-Network rights off the BSR and then resold them to Atari, or if Atari bought em off the BSR direct; either way they'll have been paid. Like yeah, they could be fussy about it if Atari doesn't have the data, but what would it actually get them other than the kind of legal trouble they were trying to avoid not putting the roms out in the first place?

 

Generally though, yes - if a prototype is in private hands that's unwilling to share, then that becomes a problem for rights-holders wanting to do something with it (obviously Akka Arrh is only on Atari 50 because a dump of the proto board turned up under "circumstances"). I just also see no reason why this is an example you'd latch onto. 

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The reason why I’m being overly critical of both BSR and Atari in this scenario is because they have both proven through the years that they are incapable of making good decisions.

 

Some M-Network titles (Sword Fight, Sea Battle, Rocky & Bullwinkle) are out there while others (Anteater, Locomotion, Golden Skull) are not out there. And what difference does (did) it make? None whatsoever! BSR should have just released what they had long ago. Especially when you consider that other copies could always turn up at any moment anyway.

 

And even in a “perfect” scenario where Atari acquires these roms and decides to release them, take a guess what will happen.

 

Atari will “enhance” and “improve” and “update” these games for an  “Atari +” market. And we don’t want that. We want the original unaltered 1984 rom data.

 

Same thing with Kitchen’s creations. By all means, make all the Circus Convoys and Gold Rushes that you want. But as a kind gesture to the very gaming community which supports & purchases these new creations, (as well as for the sake of historical preservation), release the original rom data. Allow it to be preserved and saved for eternity through the redundancy of public ownership; just as your released games (like Keystone Kapers and Crackpots) are safe for eternity.

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I know Kevtris dumped Treasure of Tarmin, Anteater and In Search of the Golden Skull back in... 1999.

I asked him seven years ago to share them, but he told me he couldn't release them (still don't know the exact reason why).

 

The only two ROMs I can imagine are tricky to share, are the two AD&D ROMs.

AFAIK the rest has to do with promises.

8)

Edited by Rom Hunter
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3 hours ago, Rom Hunter said:

I know Kevtris dumped Treasure of Tarmin, Anteater and In Search of the Golden Skull back in... 1999.

I asked him seven years ago to share them, but he told me he couldn't release them (still don't know the exact reason why).

 

The only two ROMs I can imagine are tricky to share, are the two AD&D ROMs.

AFAIK the rest has to do with promises.

8)

 

I'm sure Wizards Of The Coast would love to make a licensing deal. How much it would cost is another thing. Only other option I could think of would be to strip all the AD&D IP's out of the games and release it under a different name but we all know it's AD&D :)

 

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The NVGM is awesome and well worth a trip to see it. I was blown away by the displays. Very professional and well laid out. I have briefly chatted with John at the museum and PRGE. Super nice guy. I appreciate all the hard work they have given to make the NVGM. Nothing but love and admiration for John and NVGM from me. People seem to forget, lots of times when people donate items, they come with stipulations. As Tempest mentioned, there are legal concerns to worry about.

 

Edited by Machine
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I was hanging with Joe S. earlier tonight, and I mentioned this.  There's a few considerations in general with regards to the museum and what they can do there.  The space they have is very limited, most of their square footage is devoted to physical displays, the small arcade, and a multi-purpose room.  They have a small office and storage space.  In other words, they don't have the space to devote to being a "library" in quite the same way other museums might be.  Strong is an example, but most of what Strong has is in storage, and you have to ask for it.  NVGM is the reverse, you don't need to ask, you can walk the floor.  There is a 2.0 project they have been working on for awhile, but it requires a much larger footprint, which the city they're in hasn't delivered yet. 

 

As for the electronic portion, I mean, I'm not sure what is required here?  It's been said that John has released software in the past.  There are limitations.  For instance, the He-Man INTV proto rom was I think in their possession, but they weren't given permission to release.  In the case of Dan Kitchen's stuff, I just don't think John was aware of the need to release the rom.  Why would he be?  We have good-nature ribbed Dan about Gold Rush in the past, he was supposed to debut it at Digital Press several years ago.  I don't know what's happened on it?  Dan is a great guy, very generous, and loves to talk about video games.  I doubt he's afraid of a MS lawsuit, but he might have wished to do something with Gold Rush, and has writer's block.

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