Is it better to play Atari 7800 games with an actual 7800 at the mo...

[shane857]

Don't get me wrong. I love the Atari 2600+. It plays pretty much all original released 2600 games and a lot of homebrew.

7800 games thou to be honest...look like sh*t. More so for PAL 7800 games.

Actually thinking of buying a PAL 7800 to use with 7800 games and just use the 2600+ for 2600 games. 🤔

[Sean_1970]

20 minutes ago, shane857 said:

Don't get me wrong. I love the Atari 2600+. It plays pretty much all original released 2600 games and a lot of homebrew.

7800 games thou to be honest...look like sh*t. More so for PAL 7800 games.

Actually thinking of buying a PAL 7800 to use with 7800 games and just use the 2600+ for 2600 games. 🤔

I can understand that. Frankly I think there would have been less issues if that’s all the 2600+ could play, but it’s kinda neat having 7800 carts, though only two of mine are PAL, so I’m not experiencing any issues…

[shane857]

16 minutes ago, Sean_1970 said:

I can understand that. Frankly I think there would have been less issues if that’s all the 2600+ could play, but it’s kinda neat having 7800 carts, though only two of mine are PAL, so I’m not experiencing any issues…

Yeh, maybe the Atari 2600+ should have been 2600 games only? Just the one system 🤔

I agree it is cool to play 7800 games also. thou at the moment all released games are far from perfect. Crossbow PAL is a good example, it's playable thou better to turn sound off. 🤨 lol

[DEANJIMMY]

Well, it plays all my 7800 games now and with the 1.1x-r1 load I am quite happy.

The colors look much better now and the performance is better, like Galaga not having the stutter when you move left/right anymore.

The secret rooms of Commando and some places in Midnight Mutants have some flicker when scrolling.

That will be difficult to change, I've learned (scaling an image that isn't a multiple will lead to shimmer).  But I am happy how Commando looks and plays now. The output from my modded 7800, even on Retrotink, still has got issues too, so I like to play on the 2600+.

If you play Xevious PAL on real machine, the green flickers like hell, too.

 

I rather think about getting some NTSC carts, as they often look better.

 

Games like Crossbow look a bit ugly if not played on real CRT but without a light gun they are less fun anyway.

7800 games with higher resolution need scanlines more than the blocky 2600 games, which look cool on a crisp flat screen.

 

I've got almost 60 games, most PAL and they usually run fine.

 

I like to play 7800 games rather on the plus than on my PAL 7800 now.

 

What I miss is Paddle and Trakball support!

 

I have quite a few 2600 games still not running on the plus, no Atarivox support, etc.

So the 2600 Jr is still needed much more than my 7800.

 

[chad5200]

1 hour ago, shane857 said:

Don't get me wrong. I love the Atari 2600+. It plays pretty much all original released 2600 games and a lot of homebrew.

7800 games thou to be honest...look like sh*t. More so for PAL 7800 games.

Actually thinking of buying a PAL 7800 to use with 7800 games and just use the 2600+ for 2600 games. 🤔

Which firmware version are you running?

 

[shane857]

8 minutes ago, DEANJIMMY said:

Well, it plays all my 7800 games now and with the 1.1x-r1 load I am quite happy.

The colors look much better now and the performance is better, like Galaga not having the stutter when you move left/right anymore.

The secret rooms of Commando and some places in Midnight Mutants have some flicker when scrolling.

That will be difficult to change, I've learned (scaling an image that isn't a multiple will lead to shimmer).  But I am happy how Commando looks and plays now. The output from my modded 7800, even on Retrotink, still has got issues too, so I like to play on the 2600+.

If you play Xevious PAL on real machine, the green flickers like hell, too.

 

I rather think about getting some NTSC carts, as they often look better.

 

Games like Crossbow look a bit ugly if not played on real CRT but without a light gun they are less fun anyway.

7800 games with higher resolution need scanlines more than the blocky 2600 games, which look cool on a crisp flat screen.

 

I've got almost 60 games, most PAL and they usually run fine.

 

I like to play 7800 games rather on the plus than on my PAL 7800 now.

 

What I miss is Paddle and Trakball support!

 

I have quite a few 2600 games still not running on the plus, no Atarivox support, etc.

So the 2600 Jr is still needed much more than my 7800.

 

I agree. Most 7800 games look ok. Some would definitely benefit from some kind of filter thou. Scanlines or other. Depends on your personal preference I guess. 

[DEANJIMMY]

9 minutes ago, shane857 said:

Yeh, maybe the Atari 2600+ should have been 2600 games only? Just the one system 🤔

I agree it is cool to play 7800 games also. thou at the moment all released games are far from perfect. Crossbow PAL is a good example, it's playable thou better to turn sound off. 🤨 lol

Crossbow is a bad example. Yours not dumped correctly. Mine does, looks much better but the PAL version is more ugly than the NTSC version!

 

I am happy the 2600+ plays 7800 carts, that is my main use case for it. I never could run Robotron, Winter and Summer Games on my PAL machine and the PAL output was never good on real HW, so I like the output (from 1.1x-r1!!!) more.

The ouput from my modded 2600 was good enough but I am happy the 2600+ plays my 7800 games. They look often better, a few have issues but maybe they get fixed like Tower Toppler. The missing sprites on the 2600 side were more annoying but 1.1x-r1 improves them, you see right away when playing HERO, or Frogger before and after.

 

For me the 7800 support is essential.

If you look at new homebrews like ARTI or EXO, they look great and will look good on the 2600+ too.

 

For some old 7800 PAL  games it is like "you can't make gold from shit".

A German saying😉

[shane857]

8 minutes ago, chad5200 said:

Which firmware version are you running?

 

The experimental firmware with 1.1.0.9 dumper

[scifidude79]

Being able to play 7800 games is my main reason for buying the 2600+. I'd personally much rather play on a brand new system than a 38 year old one. Any issues with the 2600+ can be fixed with a firmware update, but that's not true of original hardware. 38 years old isn't that old for a person (I'm 45) but for electronics it's ancient. My 7800 died ages ago and I don't know how much faith I'd put in buying an original console now. Besides, a lot of the ones I see on Ebay that are actually listed as "tested and working" cost more than the 2600+. But, that's just my take on it.

[MikeM_]

I’m happy with my plus and the 7800 games I have. I don’t have any PAL games though and from what I’ve read there is a marketable difference between NTSC and PAL. 
 

I would think these issues will eventually get resolved. I mean, if you have the resources and don’t mind the extra work involved in getting an original 7800 working, then there is nothing wrong with having both. But if you do t need to spend the money and can just wait, I’m sure it will eventually work itself out. 

[+LS650]

Yeah, I think there is quite a difference between the NTSC and the PAL support on the 7800.  I have a half-dozen 7800 NTSC carts that look and play great.

[KainXavier]

My original plan was to use the 2600+ as my sole means of playing 7800 cartridges.  However, during the lead up to the 2600+'s release, I stumbled upon a good deal for a used 7800.  I don't regret buying either console one bit.  The 7800 can play all of the 2600 games my Plus can't, including the ROM's I've purchased thanks to the relatively inexpensive Harmony cart.  There's also the 7800 Game Drive, that while expensive, will enable you to output high resolution video and play with save states on original hardware.

 

Ideally, I'd encourage you to pick up both.  I'm not sure you'll be satisfied with just a 7800, especially if visuals are a primary concern.

[MikeM_]

I can’t recall the full list at the moment, but if I remember right a real 7800 can’t play a small list of 2600 games. 
 

Only ones I can recall off the top of my head are Activision Decathlon and Space Shuttle. No idea of that issue carried over to PAL games or not. 

[+Intellivision Master]

19 hours ago, shane857 said:

Don't get me wrong. I love the Atari 2600+. It plays pretty much all original released 2600 games and a lot of homebrew.

7800 games thou to be honest...look like sh*t. More so for PAL 7800 games.

Actually thinking of buying a PAL 7800 to use with 7800 games and just use the 2600+ for 2600 games. 🤔

I play my 7800 homebrews on the 7800 because they won't run on the 2600+ since I didn't update it.  I have Galagon which is a 2600 homebrew and that only works on the 7800.  The Plus can't play it.  I play most 2600 games on the Plus.  Including my 3 of the 4 homebrews that are 2600 games.  Also, I have one 7800 game; Robotron that I play on the Plus.  All of my games are NTSC.  So is the 7800.  My 7800 is modded with AV out.  It's hooked up to an old smart TV that has an AV port.  The only issue is that the image is a little fuzzy but it's not bad.  I can make out what's on screen.

 

It's nice to have the older hardware because it's compatible with the games.  Whereas on the 2600+, there are limits.  That's why having the original console, stuff just works.  I like both systems.  And if something doesn't work on the clone console, I just play it on the old console. 

Edited February 21 by Intellivision Master

[shane857]

1 hour ago, Intellivision Master said:

I play my 7800 homebrews on the 7800 because they won't run on the 2600+ since I didn't update it.  I have Galagon which is a 2600 homebrew and that only works on the 7800.  The Plus can't play it.  I play most 2600 games on the Plus.  Including my 3 of the 4 homebrews that are 2600 games.  Also, I have one 7800 game; Robotron that I play on the Plus.  All of my games are NTSC.  So is the 7800.  My 7800 is modded with AV out.  It's hooked up to an old smart TV that has an AV port.  The only issue is that the image is a little fuzzy but it's not bad.  I can make out what's on screen.

 

It's nice to have the older hardware because it's compatible with the games.  Whereas on the 2600+, there are limits.  That's why having the original console, stuff just works.  I like both systems.  And if something doesn't work on the clone console, I just play it on the old console. 

That's a great idea. 👍 I am going to get my original 2600 out of storage and use that for all my PAL 2600 games. Then use the 2600+ to play 7800 games and NTSC 2600 games. Hopefully they will improve the dumper and emulator to near perfect with future updates.

[Glorkbot]

3 hours ago, Intellivision Master said:

And if something doesn't work on the clone console, I just play it on the old console. 

If something doesn't work on the Atari 2600+ I just play it on my Raspberry Pi (and which I can easily swap between HDTV and CRT).

[pseudografx]

13 hours ago, MikeM_ said:

I can’t recall the full list at the moment, but if I remember right a real 7800 can’t play a small list of 2600 games. 
 

Only ones I can recall off the top of my head are Activision Decathlon and Space Shuttle. No idea of that issue carried over to PAL games or not. 

Oh, so that's why I couldn't get Decathlon to run on my 7800!

[shane857]

Decided to dig out my original 2600. Now I have the best of both worlds...Atari VCS for my PAL games, and the 2600+ for NTSC 2600 and 7800 games. Now I can play ALL of my carts. 👍

[shane857]

50 minutes ago, shane857 said:

Decided to dig out my original 2600. Now I have the best of both worlds...Atari VCS for my PAL games, and the 2600+ for NTSC 2600 and 7800 games. Now I can play ALL of my carts. 👍

Father...and son. 💪

[KainXavier]

3 hours ago, shane857 said:

Father...and son. 💪

I don't see a Junior in that photo...

 

[Brad_from_the_80s]

I think 7800 support is an important feature and differentiator for the 2600+, and at least here in NTSC land it works pretty well, and will improve with software updates.  I'm not sure the emulator supports scanlines, which is unfortunate as I think 7800 graphics were designed for the displays of the era just like early Nintendo/Sega systems and might benefit from a filter sometimes.  The 2600 stuff does perfectly fine without any filter IMO. 

Edited February 22 by Brad_from_the_80s

[MikeM_]

8 hours ago, pseudografx said:

Oh, so that's why I couldn't get Decathlon to run on my 7800!

Found a more comprehensive list of incompatibilities. 

• All Tigervision games are incompatible with all 7800s due to the dust cover posts poking out too far, preventing the game PCB from actually making contact with the cartridge port
• Arcadia Supercharger add-on games
• Robot Tank
• Space Shuttle
• The Activision Decathlon

https://consolemods.org/wiki/Atari_7800:Game_Incompatibilities

[+Mitch]

1 hour ago, MikeM_ said:

Found a more comprehensive list of incompatibilities. 

• All Tigervision games are incompatible with all 7800s due to the dust cover posts poking out too far, preventing the game PCB from actually making contact with the cartridge port
• Arcadia Supercharger add-on games
• Robot Tank
• Space Shuttle
• The Activision Decathlon

https://consolemods.org/wiki/Atari_7800:Game_Incompatibilities

It really depends on the 7800. Some play pretty much everything others have more issues. The list above are games that frequently have issues but that doesn't mean your 7800 won't play them.

 

Mitch

[+sramirez2008]

On 2/20/2024 at 2:02 PM, shane857 said:

Don't get me wrong. I love the Atari 2600+

IMO the 7800 is better, especially when paired with a CRT. A CRT will allow you to see the games the way they were meant to be seen (e.g., color blending and scanlines) and allow you to play the light gun and trak-ball games. In addition to the OG library, the console has an amazing homebrew library that you can take advantage of, including HOKEY, POKEY and YM2151 sound chip games. It’s also backwards compatible with the 2600, so you would get more gameplay out of a 7800 but you would lose the HDMI output. My daily driver is an S-Video modded 7800, and I have a couple unmodified, CIB consoles. My 2600+ will eventually occupy a space in our living room and probably get played mostly during our game nights. I do love that the 2600+ also handles HOKEY, POKEY and YM2151. Astro Blaster (XM), Donkey Kong XM/PK, Pac-Man Collection (XM)/40 Anniversary (YM2151) all sound amazing. 
Note: you won’t experience any lag with the original hardware and a CRT. 
 

Game On everyone!

[shane857]

3 hours ago, sramirez2008 said:

IMO the 7800 is better, especially when paired with a CRT. A CRT will allow you to see the games the way they were meant to be seen (e.g., color blending and scanlines) and allow you to play the light gun and trak-ball games. In addition to the OG library, the console has an amazing homebrew library that you can take advantage of, including HOKEY, POKEY and YM2151 sound chip games. It’s also backwards compatible with the 2600, so you would get more gameplay out of a 7800 but you would lose the HDMI output. My daily driver is an S-Video modded 7800, and I have a couple unmodified, CIB consoles. My 2600+ will eventually occupy a space in our living room and probably get played mostly during our game nights. I do love that the 2600+ also handles HOKEY, POKEY and YM2151. Astro Blaster (XM), Donkey Kong XM/PK, Pac-Man Collection (XM)/40 Anniversary (YM2151) all sound amazing. 
Note: you won’t experience any lag with the original hardware and a CRT. 
 

Game On everyone!

Yes I have noticed the lag more so now on the 2600+ with the paddle controllers and even the joystick, after playing my original VCS.