+hloberg Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 in MAME using the multi-cart Microsoft multiplan & Logo II doesn't seem to work. if MAME setup for single cart it is fine. I didn't know there was a difference in how the carts would be seen. any idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 The multicart adapter is controlled by the GROM base addresses, so if the cartridges do not properly use the system-provided GROM base address (but instead hard-code it), the cartridges cannot be selected. You may try the manual setting in the DIP switch menu. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+hloberg Posted June 14 Author Share Posted June 14 2 hours ago, mizapf said: The multicart adapter is controlled by the GROM base addresses, so if the cartridges do not properly use the system-provided GROM base address (but instead hard-code it), the cartridges cannot be selected. You may try the manual setting in the DIP switch menu. Huh, didn't even know that was a thing with being able to select the cart via DIP switches. it works though. question, I never saw a real TI99 that was able to have multicart capabilities. was that a thing with the real iron the DIP switches. Also, if there is a real one out there has anyone got a pic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary from OPA Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 (edited) If loaded correctly the ti99 os will display a new option on the menu normally #3 called Review Module Library when you select it will then switch to the next grom base and display the cartridge associated with it. I never tried it with mame but that how it works on the real ti99. I think with mame you need to use the hsgpl option for it to work but that operates a bit different. Not sure if mame emulates the pgram+ which also allowed for multiple carts. Only other device that made use of it was my pop-cart which used the improved menu display from sob to display all the cartridges. You can on classic99 use multiple grom bases as well using a custom .ini file. Plus the UberGROM can handle a extra grom base as well Edited June 14 by Gary from OPA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+hloberg Posted June 14 Author Share Posted June 14 43 minutes ago, Gary from OPA said: I think with mame you need to use the hsgpl option for it to work but that operates a bit different. Not sure if mame emulates the pgram+ which also allowed for multiple carts. hsgpl is a option in mame with the right ROMs installed but you can switch to multi-cart in the slot settings as well without the need for the hsgpl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 The multicart adapter is one of the first implementations from me when I took over the works on the TI family in MAME, and somewhat a first sin because I created it without a real device in my hands. I was just interested to exploit the Review Module Library feature of the console. Later I heard that there were some module expanders of that kind in use by TI people, maybe for demonstration. The adapter goes into the GROM port (cartridge slot), and MAME offers three options: - single (the normal port, default) - multicart (this adapter) - gkracker (the GRAMKracker) You can set it in the command line as option "-gromport X" with X as one of the named options. The HSGPL card is also emulated, but it is a separate expansion card in the box. Also, PGRAM+ is emulated. See the full collection of emulated devices here: https://www.ninermame.org/info/scope 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+hloberg Posted June 14 Author Share Posted June 14 PC99, I believe, also had multicart capabilities. which brings me back to what would a real TI99 setup with multicart look like and did it really ever exist as a purchasable item? the Navarone cartridge expander didn't have the multicart capabilities the best I remember. did it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+hloberg Posted June 14 Author Share Posted June 14 2 hours ago, mizapf said: The multicart adapter is one of the first implementations from me when I took over the works on the TI family in MAME, and somewhat a first sin because I created it without a real device in my hands. I was just interested to exploit the Review Module Library feature of the console. Later I heard that there were some module expanders of that kind in use by TI people, maybe for demonstration. The adapter goes into the GROM port (cartridge slot), and MAME offers three options: - single (the normal port, default) - multicart (this adapter) - gkracker (the GRAMKracker) You can set it in the command line as option "-gromport X" with X as one of the named options. The HSGPL card is also emulated, but it is a separate expansion card in the box. Also, PGRAM+ is emulated. See the full collection of emulated devices here: https://www.ninermame.org/info/scope and if some one whats to play around with the HSGPL setup for MAME just click the link and the contents in MAME. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 6 hours ago, hloberg said: PC99, I believe, also had multicart capabilities. which brings me back to what would a real TI99 setup with multicart look like and did it really ever exist as a purchasable item? the Navarone cartridge expander didn't have the multicart capabilities the best I remember. did it? There were a few aftermarket cartridges that used multicart capabilities, and TI had a few internal (not sold commercially) devices that would also activate the Review Module Library functionality exploited by multicarts. Pretty much all of the aftermarket GRAM devices would support this mode of operation as well. The UberGROM will also use it, if set up in that way. It has 15 slots (8K each) that can be configured for GROMs in up to 15 separate GROM bases. You can mix and match as desired. Example: if you need five GROMs in one GROM base and use the other ten slots for single-GROM cartridges, you can do that. Note that the console cartridge scanning routine only looks at the first 12 GROM bases though, so you are practically limited to 12 unless you roll your own scanning routine (and the system supports a LOT more GROM bases than it scans). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Torrax Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 Do you have a list of those aftermarket cartridges that used this. I know of Super Extended Basic with the Multi-Mod upgrade (have one). And didn't Extended Basic III use this also? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atrax27407 Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 Take full advantage of the functions that MAME provides! I have mine set up with the EVPC card (80 columns and 192K VRAM), an HSGPL card, and several RAMdisks. I use the 80-column Menu program from @Insane multitasker. With that combo, you not only have 80-columns but you can load 16 carts and toggle through them with FCTN (ALT) 6 and select the one you want with FCTN(ALT) 7. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+hloberg Posted June 15 Author Share Posted June 15 5 hours ago, atrax27407 said: Take full advantage of the functions that MAME provides! I have mine set up with the EVPC card (80 columns and 192K VRAM), an HSGPL card, and several RAMdisks. I use the 80-column Menu program from @Insane multitasker. With that combo, you not only have 80-columns but you can load 16 carts and toggle through them with FCTN (ALT) 6 and select the one you want with FCTN(ALT) 7. could you post the cfg, ini, rom and nvram from your MAME setup and if you have a batch file to start it up? I would like to look at any maybe post it on my website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atrax27407 Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 I used Ooeygui (Chris Schneider) to set it all up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 I provide a fully prepared HSGPL on WHTech that is downloaded by the mameprep bash script. You can find it in the directory https://ftp.whtech.com/emulators/MAME/div/. Unzip the files in the nvram/ti99_4a(e) and nvram/ti99_4ev and nvram/ti99_4p directories. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+hloberg Posted June 15 Author Share Posted June 15 I have a working HSGPL on my website (may got the original from @mizapf) what I don't have is many carts converted over that works with it's multicart. Seems for me a hit or miss in the conversion process. got XB, XB2.6, RXB2015, Adventure, disk manager and few others to work but things like LogoII, MSMP, RXB2024 I have not luck. just curious if there were also a problem with the actual hardware too that some carts wouldn't work? Oh, while I'm thinking about it, was the HSGPL a card for the PEB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary from OPA Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 HSGPL was a card for the PEB and designed originally for the matching 16bit CPU card for the PEB. One problem with multicart setups most are designed for only 16k ROM two pages or at best 32k ROM 4 pages. With multiple pages of GROM but all sharing the same ROM area. Even on the UberGROM. Only my Pop-Cart design did it right with different sets of 6000 ROM to match the selected GROM base which allows for much better compatibility with running multiple different cartridges at the same time. The special hardware mod for the nanvorane 3 slot cartridge expander also did it right. You can see how to mod one on the titech pages. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atrax27407 Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 RXB2024 needs a fourth ROM file. The HSGPL emulation (and real card) do not like an odd number of ROMs. It will copy ROM1 into ROM2 (after a message) so that there is an even number. Here is a ROM4 that SNUG supplied to me. snug_dummy.bin 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 1 hour ago, hloberg said: Oh, while I'm thinking about it, was the HSGPL a card for the PEB? https://www.s-n-u-g.de/hsgpl/index_en.php 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 48 minutes ago, Gary from OPA said: One problem with multicart setups most are designed for only 16k ROM two pages or at best 32k ROM 4 pages. With multiple pages of GROM but all sharing the same ROM area. Even on the UberGROM. Only my Pop-Cart design did it right with different sets of 6000 ROM to match the selected GROM base which allows for much better compatibility with running multiple different cartridges at the same time. The special hardware mod for the nanvorane 3 slot cartridge expander also did it right. You can see how to mod one on the titech pages. True as far as you are following this, but the thing about the UberGROM and ROM is that it provides you 64 banks of ROM. It requires a few additional steps to use the additional ROM banks independently--but it is inherently possible to use banks this way. You have to specify the ROM banks your cartridge is using within your code--so instead of >6000/>6002 as your bank switch mode for a cart with two ROM banks, you need to change the bank switch to two open banks that you can fill and utilize with your program (e.g., >6010/>6012). You can also use a menu program that can launch programs loaded into the 64 banks (and run 8K programs out of the standard >6000 space if they have no bank switching required after being selected), or load several banks into the 32K space and launch them from there. The key is general versatility. The method you describe for the Pop-Cart is one way to solve the problem, the UberGROM is another. Different use cases drove each design (and the design for the FinalGROM, for that matter). All are excellent choices within the use cases they were intended to fill. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary from OPA Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 2 minutes ago, Ksarul said: True as far as you are following this, but the thing about the UberGROM and ROM is that it provides you 64 banks of ROM. It requires a few additional steps to use the additional ROM banks independently--but it is inherently possible to use banks this way. You have to specify the ROM banks your cartridge is using within your code--so instead of >6000/>6002 as your bank switch mode for a cart with two ROM banks, you need to change the bank switch to two open banks that you can fill and utilize with your program (e.g., >6010/>6012). You can also use a menu program that can launch programs loaded into the 64 banks (and run 8K programs out of the standard >6000 space if they have no bank switching required after being selected), or load several banks into the 32K space and launch them from there. The key is general versatility. The method you describe for the Pop-Cart is one way to solve the problem, the UberGROM is another. Different use cases drove each design (and the design for the FinalGROM, for that matter). All are excellent choices within the use cases they were intended to fill. Yes UberGROM is nice in that way. But does require editing the cartridge grom and ROM code if you trying to mix other carts together that were originally designed to run separately, but for a whole new cartridge it is great with up to 512k of ROM space. Finalgrom is nice design with its own menu selection. Just too bad you can't have it automatically change cartridges based on the grom base using the official way ti had designed the review module library system to work. Each design has its pros and cons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+hloberg Posted June 16 Author Share Posted June 16 54 minutes ago, atrax27407 said: RXB2024 needs a fourth ROM file. The HSGPL emulation (and real card) do not like an odd number of ROMs. It will copy ROM1 into ROM2 (after a message) so that there is an even number. Here is a ROM4 that SNUG supplied to me. snug_dummy.bin 8 kB · 0 downloads that might explain a lot of the problems I've been having. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXB Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 6 hours ago, hloberg said: that might explain a lot of the problems I've been having. I would try ROM 1 of the 3 ROMs put in ROM 4 to see that fixes it? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atrax27407 Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 (edited) Maybe this will help. It works with a real HSGPL card and also in the MAME emulation. Converting GROM-ROM and ROM only files for HSGPL.pdf GKRAK1.dsk Edited June 16 by atrax27407 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+hloberg Posted June 16 Author Share Posted June 16 will try both. thanks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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