Reissues of third party 7800 titles, How realistic do you think that possibility is?

[Giles N]

4 minutes ago, Defender_2600 said:

No, I don't own the ROM. I've heard it and I can see it in the video.

From memory: I’ve only heard about like 2 people who’ve played it. One found it cool, the other not so hot stuff (perhaps I misunderstood).

 

I think it’s a unique title. Independent of what the right timing would eventually have to be, I believe that any official release of this, would most likely be from someone partnering with Atari, quite simply for Atari to create interest in the 2600+ and the Polymega module (if they stand by that), and for the partner to get more like the money for each game sold.

 

Such an undertaking would be more of a long-term strategy to win as much of the retrogame sector as possible, and eventually just get attention for doing stuff that may br not-so-run-of-the-mill.

 

Anyway, it’s very good the questions come to light, even if ever-so-unlikely. As the industry often moves with steps of processes taking like 6 months at a minimum, mapping interests, possibilities or simply things that by now seems undoable or is just not possible, it’s anyway good to have the elements in the equation on the table.

 

Fair enough, it was said above the details of final agreements are often kept secret, but all the rest: expressed interests, discussions of what exists, what was left unfinished, who owns what - if any, what could be licensed or bought back… and by whom. Think it’s good that such questions resurface from time to time. 
It may be that things looks different by the end say 2027, and that Atari still needs for people to have get renewed interest in the 2600+ and/or the Polymega, in whatever formats they’ll take by then… may be just more 2600+’s with FW updates installed. May be Polymega consoles with 2600/7800 modules. 
 

Perhaps we’ll see a better VCS + Polymega-everything some day?

 

Good to go through stuff.

[CPUWIZ]

1 minute ago, Giles N said:

I’ve only heard about like 2 people who’ve played it.

 

Where?  Your post is how rumors get started, the next thing someone will say is that only one person is left on the planet that played it.

 

Math, owner played it, RevEng played it, I played it and Tempest played it.  I am pretty sure there are a few more people who played it.  

 

Sorry, TOKI is still a sore subject, I just sold 30 of the 2 hundred boards I prepared for this project. 

[Giles N]

44 minutes ago, CPUWIZ said:

Where?  Your post is how rumors get started, the next thing someone will say is that only one person is left on the planet that played it.

Why of course - the other guy was abducted… or at least disappeared mysteriously outside a remote semi-abandoned Microids Warehouse building. 
 

I didn’t say only 2 people had ever played it.

I said I had only heard about 2 who’ve played it. Of course by math, it must be more, since BITD it was coded, the entire original team probably play-tested it all the time.

 

One guy here who sold me some repros and 5200-stuff, said it didn’t amount to some great experience, sounding like he’d played it, and the other is the reviewer (I believe) on the site from which the video is made.

 

If it’s a sore subject; I can clear up the part about mentioning people who’d played it: I asked Defender whether he’d played it, curious if he then had an opinion of what the gameplay is like. After that I tried to remember what I had heard said about it here (AA) and on review-sites, and could only come to think of the guy who sold me some repro-stuff and the reviewer, leaving me with very little to go by, as to ascertain whether it could be something that Atari or 3rd parties joining to make the 2600+ and the Polymega something longer-lasting etc - everything mentioned in my prior post -, find to be of high enough quality to actually work for a release (if legally possible at all, lets say - sometime in the next 5 years). 
 

I didn’t mean to say ‘I know only 2 persons on Earth have ever played it… and the last catridge ever made was last seen in a shelter in Area 52’.

 

I was asking Defender if he’d played it because I heard so few describe the gameplay - good, bad, ugly. My point was ‘only 2 that I could remember.’ That’s it. 
My interest was to find out if it’s quality or crap.

Why bother whining to Atari or a potential 3rd party publisher to spend money getting crap released?

 

With every other thing mentioned here on the threads, the demos, games etc are to be found and play-tested with a tiny bit of research.

(Sirius is btw my favourite shmup for 7800; it deserves Pokey music)

 

Not so with Toki.

Therefore elaborate descriptions of the gameplay-quality is kinda rare.

Meaning I have to ask.

 

Did you like it?

 

Is it fun to play?

 

I’d be truly interested in whether you like the game or not, independent of whether it ever will be get a release or not.

 

I’m much more interested in gamedesign than the business part (which I have to endure because its part of reality).

Edited June 16 by Giles N
typos

[CPUWIZ]

It's a little hard for my taste, but I also never played the Lynx version or whatever, so maybe it's just me.

[Giles N]

On 6/16/2024 at 7:26 AM, CPUWIZ said:

It's a little hard for my taste, but I also never played the Lynx version or whatever, so maybe it's just me.

The Lynx version is very well made

I haven’t played the Arcade, so I don’t know it feels the same, but everything in the Lynd version is quality: use of colors, sharp gameplay, tons going on on-screen, ‘Arcadey’ music and sound (for lack of better words), detailed graphics and good animations.

 
I still haven’t played through it, because others titles have higher priority.

 

Definitly one the betters/best 2D action-platformers on the Lynx.

Edited June 19 by Giles N

[ukiha]

On 6/16/2024 at 10:36 AM, CPUWIZ said:

Come on dudes, you got a bunch of kids to eat Tide-Pods, how hard could it possibly be to make this thing go viral?

 

 

As a zoomer myself, I think its an extreme uphill battle to get people interested in the 2600+, let alone Atari more widely.

 

Retro game collecting, interest, communities around that, for the people my age, is primarily Nintendo.

Sega has some more regional appeal, but would be the second choice.

Then for 'niche' unpopular things, I think I'm more likely to see someone really get into the NeoGeo systems, Retro PCs, a lot of things, before I see anything Atari.

 

I don't know anyone my age into Atari, or that knowledgeable about it, the games, or collecting.

 

And all I can guess is it really comes down to lacking games that had a real lasting legacy into the modern day, that causes far less people to look backwards.

Nintendo and Sega has series from back then that stayed relevant and alive well into the 2000s and even to this day.

Atari? Not so much, due to how squandered the brand was until very recently I'd say.

Maybe the recharged series, the remakes they are doing, maybe that might change the trajectory, but the sales are obviously not very good, and they never land with much of a splash.

 

tl;dr, you need to capture people with modern games now, before they would have much passing interest in looking back and wanting to try 7800, or the 2600.

 

not to mention a lot of 2600 games aren't exactly the most appealing to even me, and I like Atari stuff, so imagine someone with a more passing interest...

[Bakasama]

I feel enjoying older games might require different state of mind or imagination. Some games were more like twitch tests like say Tempest or Stargate.

[Giles N]

17 hours ago, ukiha said:

And all I can guess is it really comes down to lacking games that had a real lasting legacy into the modern day, that causes far less people to look backwards.

Nintendo and Sega has series from back then that stayed relevant and alive well into the 2000s and even to this day.

Atari? Not so much, due to how squandered the brand was until very recently I'd say.

Maybe the recharged series, the remakes they are doing, maybe that might change the trajectory, but the sales are obviously not very good, and they never land with much of a splash.

This sounds very much like nailing it, as to my own impressions.

 

How do you think Recharged, Reimagined or remakes, should be like as to land with some bigger splashes than they do now?

 

[Giles N]

18 hours ago, Bakasama said:

 

I feel enjoying older games might require different state of mind or imagination.

 

Guess the Tide-Pods were mentioned as a possible mind-altering substance for younger gamers to ‘get in the right mood’ for having actual fun with the 2600s oldest games…🙃😜

Edited June 19 by Giles N

[ukiha]

4 hours ago, Giles N said:

This sounds very much like nailing it, as to my own impressions.

 

How do you think Recharged, Reimagined or remakes, should be like as to land with some bigger splashes than they do now?

 

 

Well, I've only really seen older (Gen X I guess... am I biased? Maybe that isn't so old...) people on YouTube and social media really talking about the series.

 

Atari seemingly are only giving free codes/review codes to people in that cohort too, where they'd probably be better served giving it to YouTubers/TikTokers/Etc with younger audiences.

 

The Recharged series are some more recent games published by Atari are quite difficult, the idea of a super difficult challenging game to overcome is a popular video trope.

With some effort Atari could leverage this audience, but seemingly they are just sticking with what they know best.

 

Also, Atari has nearly no meaningful social media presence, and don't advertise their games almost at all.

Yar's Rising has the potential to pull a wider audience with the fact that Wayforward is doing it, so I guess we will see if they try something different!

[Maztr_0n]

On 6/15/2024 at 7:36 PM, CPUWIZ said:

Come on dudes, you got a bunch of kids to eat Tide-Pods, how hard could it possibly be to make this thing go viral?

 

 

Well that was like 3 people and then everybody laughed at them, lets not go the tidepods route.

 

 

I'll try to bring it to a keg party or a Scott The Woz Fan Meetup, think that'll work on getting Gex on 7800

[Maztr_0n]

On 6/19/2024 at 8:58 PM, ukiha said:

 

Well, I've only really seen older (Gen X I guess... am I biased? Maybe that isn't so old...) people on YouTube and social media really talking about the series.

 

Atari seemingly are only giving free codes/review codes to people in that cohort too, where they'd probably be better served giving it to YouTubers/TikTokers/Etc with younger audiences.

 

The Recharged series are some more recent games published by Atari are quite difficult, the idea of a super difficult challenging game to overcome is a popular video trope.

With some effort Atari could leverage this audience, but seemingly they are just sticking with what they know best.

 

Also, Atari has nearly no meaningful social media presence, and don't advertise their games almost at all.

Yar's Rising has the potential to pull a wider audience with the fact that Wayforward is doing it, so I guess we will see if they try something different!

 

 

Also as a zoomer, i tell atari this

 

 

 

Just fucking say "our console plays classic games, and you dont have to empty your wallet for games like Fatal run, Food Fight, Berzerk, Secret Quest?, Dark Chambers"

 

Theres so many like.... kids younger than i am who are into that idea but are unaware of its existence, just be natural on tiktok, complain about retro game prices and compare the 2600+ to "competitors retro machines", sell it as that secondary, as your primary classic games console to play on alongside your modern console.

[Maztr_0n]

Plus i imagine there are Zillennial/Zoomer aged or demographic Retro Channels or just General Gaming channels who would do something like a drunk couch playthrough of idk Mr Run And Jump on youtube and then someone animates the funniest parts where they die and scream and then, you've got an audience, but dont force it.

 

Also i hope the 2600+ games and accessories are eventually sold at dollar stores or grocery stores, thats a market that you never forget, every kid who sees a game there flips their lid so make it worth it..!

[CPUWIZ]

4 hours ago, Maztr_0n said:

Well that was like 3 people and then everybody laughed at them, lets not go the tidepods route.

 

 

I'll try to bring it to a keg party or a Scott The Woz Fan Meetup, think that'll work on getting Gex on 7800

 

https://poisoncenters.org/track/laundry-detergent-packets

[Maztr_0n]

3 hours ago, CPUWIZ said:

 

https://poisoncenters.org/track/laundry-detergent-packets

"children 5 years and younger"

Uhhhh i dont think 5 year olds use tiktok? They shouldn't they should play atari, BUY YOUR LITTLE NEPHEWS AND GRANDBABIES ATARI, AIGHT????

[Giles N]

On 6/20/2024 at 3:58 AM, ukiha said:

Well, I've only really seen older (Gen X I guess... am I biased?

Not really, methinks. 

On 6/20/2024 at 3:58 AM, ukiha said:

Maybe that isn't so old...)

…not super-young either…

On 6/20/2024 at 3:58 AM, ukiha said:

old...) people on YouTube and social media really talking about the series.

The retro-aspect is quite heavy right now. I guess very due to the fact that Ataris most historically famous IPs now, are from the period 1977-1983 (and perhaps a few exceptions)

On 6/20/2024 at 3:58 AM, ukiha said:

Atari seemingly are only giving free codes/review codes to people in that cohort too, where they'd probably be better served giving it to YouTubers/TikTokers/Etc with younger audiences.

I’m not sure whether it’s totally free in every case, - certain aspects of some of the stuff, makes me think Atari deliberately selects reviewers who are generally super-stoked on everything Atari, or even may be into some kind of sponsoring-deal (not like told what to say, of leave out critiscism, but who are generally giving lots of attention to everything-Atari, - selected because they’ve proven their longtime interest)

YouTubers and TikTokers (and other SocialMedia channels) would be more unbiased, which could be good for Atari if they suddenly got a influencial reviewer/player, make something go viral, but as many have noted; these early (1977-83) games are mostly ‘hard on’ the eyes and ears of everyone but those who grew up with them. Exceptions being something like Battlezone, Robot Tank, Smurf, Pitfall and a fee others for 2600, which could perhaps be used in some top-score challenge video. But Atari doesn’t own them, so they’d only

be served as general interest for early systems.

 

On the 7800, there are quite alot that could pique the interest of those who find NES-level of quality good-enough or finding that 8-bit era (3rd Gen.consoles) to have its own charm 

On 6/20/2024 at 3:58 AM, ukiha said:

the idea of a super difficult challenging game to overcome is a popular video trope.

With some effort Atari could leverage this audience, but seemingly they are just sticking with what they know best.

Also, Atari has nearly no meaningful social media presence, and don't advertise their games almost at all.

Yes, they don’t seem to do much ‘reach-out’ stuff. 
I don’t think they have a plan for how to do such communications in ‘unstrained’, natural way. 
They have some TV-show coming I believe, which will feature celebs playing old Atari games.

Dunno how far it will reach.

Dunno who’ll air it, show it. Dunno if it’ll end up on YT for everybody to watch.

 

As to social media presence it seems pretty minimalistic as for now.

 

IGN seems to be a broader Ad-place.

Yars Rising got an Indie-feature on Switch-news, which I believe have given it quite a lot more YT views and interest than many of their other games.

 

- - -

 

As to the 7800 being ‘discovered’ by NES-type retrogamers, they seem to be a bit cornered by the very fact that many (not all) of the best games made for the system weren’t made by Atari (I now speak everything from 1986 - 2024 homebrews).

 

I think they are very focused (…too focuzed…?) on getting the attention onto everything owned by Atari, both games and systems.

 

Either they need to be more relaxed on that front, more openly appreciate of the many developers and publishers who throughout time, utilized their systems optimally, or they just need to pay the license for rerelease runs of high-quality 7800 titles.

In their position I hardly understand why that would be a big risk, even if was more ox net 0 in sales income.

 

They need to promote their stuff and their history and applaud the community.

Not just within tight limits of which IPs the own now.

 

They need to promote it in several different ways, why Atari hardware as well as software, is important and alive in retrogaming today.

Edited June 29 by Giles N

[Giles N]

9 hours ago, Maztr_0n said:

I'll try to bring it to a keg party or a Scott The Woz Fan Meetup, think that'll work on getting Gex on 7800

Hmm, - Adult Guy here (still 15 years in my head on certain areas, particulary the games ‘n entertainment front): 

 

Could you break down for me the stuff baked into the quote above, which reads pretty encrypted to me?

 

What’s a keg party (perhaps I don’t know coz’ of age as much as not being aquainted with yet another subcultural expression out there).

 

What or who is ‘Scott The Woz Fan Meetup’? And what happens there?

 

What is into - what happens physically - by ‘getting Gex on 7800’?

 

—

 

When you said ‘bring it’, did you mean  the Tide Pods or the Games ‘n Consoles… sorry just kiddin’ 😉

 

If you ever (bother to) read about the endless stupidity that people who are now in their 40ies, 50ies or 60ies did when they - we -  grew up, you’ll probably have your headshakes… 

 

—

 

BTW: thanks for your post, I finally got a chance to pass myself off as mature… or something… elderly perhaps? respectable and sage-like…? An Old One from another age?  A True Living Relic, perhaps? Finally found my natural role as Living Fossil..? Moderately grown-up…? Well, whatever… Your kid-slang made my day … as to that… 

Of course I have zero worries about aging; you didn’t bring up any of that at all - I’ll just pop down to a grocery and munch Omega-3 5 times a day now, and begin to do work-out on a regular basis… 3 times every hour… count my days and seconds… get correct coffin-measurements just-in-case etc… not your fault… nothing at all about what you said…

Edited June 29 by Giles N

[CPUWIZ]

10 minutes ago, Giles N said:

 

What’s a keg party (perhaps I don’t know coz’ of age as much as not being aquainted with yet another subcultural expression out there).

 

 

Whoa, no keggers in Norway?   I am going towards 60.  

 

I am assuming he is talking about some kind of Steve Wozniak fan thing, not sure. 

[Giles N]

28 minutes ago, CPUWIZ said:

Whoa, no keggers in Norway?

Do you refer to:

- lots of people getting together to drink themselves senseless & under the table on extreme amounts of alcohol?

- ahem - it happens… 

 

Spoiler

I’m too old for this shit

 

now

 

- A common party?

- renting a space in café, restaurant etc for a party and get-together…?

 

- or a party specifically involving one or more… kegs…? Like it must have a … keg… or nothing of importance or sufficiently disastrous as to health and environment can or will ever happen…?

…I mean.. the sound of it… keg-party… does it have to have RUM too to qualify…? 
That! would bring it all together… ol’ timers with a patch’d up eye an’ walkin’ on a wooden leg after all dem damn storms in life… and the zoomie meetup with keg couch-hang-outz Toking whats aight now

 

Edited June 29 by Giles N

[Maztr_0n]

1 hour ago, CPUWIZ said:

 

Whoa, no keggers in Norway?   I am going towards 60.  

 

I am assuming he is talking about some kind of Steve Wozniak fan thing, not sure. 

He's a youtuber named Scott Wozniak, he talks about the wii u all the time and flingsmash and all that stuff

[ukiha]

2 hours ago, Giles N said:

I’m not sure whether it’s totally free in every case, - certain aspects of some of the stuff, makes me think Atari deliberately selects reviewers who are generally super-stoked on everything Atari, or even may be into some kind of sponsoring-deal (not like told what to say, of leave out critiscism, but who are generally giving lots of attention to everything-Atari, - selected because they’ve proven their longtime interest)

To speak on this, the opinion of the crop of YouTubers that do receive early access and review codes to new Atari games are ones I don't pay much attention to now.

I think the reviews and opinions given are so generous and rosy by default that I can't take them seriously, unfortunately.

 

So having outside blood, or people not in the community to not be afraid to highlight the good and bad of new Atari products would be invaluable.

But of course that is sort of a brand risk for Atari, after all, for their core audience, it's pretty safe to say even flawed releases like the recent Lunar Lander: Beyond, don't receive much criticism.

Whereas the gaming press (pretty much the only outside source talking about their new games) quite fairly tore it to shreds for its multitude of issues.

I 100%'d that game, even on the permadeath mode with almost no review on YouTube from Atari influencers mentioned, that game is very flawed, but that's not the general impression you'd get.

 

I guess this is a very round-a-bout way to say, I think Atari needs to take the risk and have a wider and more healthy variety of influencers, YouTubers, and social media users that are outside the general Atari community review their new games.

 

3 hours ago, Giles N said:

On the 7800, there are quite alot that could pique the interest of those who find NES-level of quality good-enough or finding that 8-bit era (3rd Gen.consoles) to have its own charm 

Yes, they don’t seem to do much ‘reach-out’ stuff. 
I don’t think they have a plan for how to do such communications in ‘unstrained’, natural way. 
They have some TV-show coming I believe, which will feature celebs playing old Atari games.

Dunno how far it will reach.

Dunno who’ll air it, show it. Dunno if it’ll end up on YT for everybody to watch.

It might spur some interest in the overall brand, although I really wonder how much 'benefit' it provides the company for people to be playing long out of print games that don't make them money.

Maybe that's not the point, maybe it really is just to remind people Atari exists.

[Maztr_0n]

1 hour ago, ukiha said:

 

It might spur some interest in the overall brand, although I really wonder how much 'benefit' it provides the company for people to be playing long out of print games that don't make them money.

Maybe that's not the point, maybe it really is just to remind people Atari exists.

 

I get this 100% but i also meant making new ports for 7800 or 2600, at least officially, as long as companies arent too stingy about long forgotten franchises, who wouldnt want to see "Ikari II" "Ghosts and Goblins" "Mega Man" "Bomberman" etc from the old days that never got to be on Atari, i mean Some of them already have homebrew. Plus theres unreleased prototypes like the 7800 version of Rescue on Fractalus that could be completed and available to the public.

 

Not to mention the insane homebrew scene in general, i remember this topdown GTA style zombie game that sadly was cancelled but it made me think, not only do we "rely on classics" the homebrew scene can thrive off things nobody ever expected, absurd Demakes, Rom Hacks, Unofficial Ports, Left-Field Genres of games.

 

Most retro systems do have that, but they dont have modern day support for their work, Atari is the one who is keeping the 8 Bit Video Arcade fresh, why shouldn't we just try to outdo what nintendid and do what they also didnt do? Perfect time, i say.

[Giles N]

3 hours ago, ukiha said:

I really wonder how much 'benefit' it provides the company for people to be playing long out of print games that don't make them money.

Maybe that's not the point, maybe it really is just to remind people Atari exists.

Hmm, - anyway - how did you start taking an interest in Atari and what they make or publish now?

 

What brought you to AtariAge?

Edited June 29 by Giles N

[ukiha]

23 minutes ago, Giles N said:

Hmm, - anyway - how did you start taking an interest in Atari and what they make or publish now?

 

What brought you to AtariAge?

To keep things succinct, both my mother and father grew up in the age of Atari and are quite familiar with the games and arcade games.

My mother held onto her Atari computer, I played quite a bit of her favorite games (boulderdash being the main one) on it.

 

Otherwise I've played Atari games on and off most of my life due to my parents, with me wanting to learn more about the games, company, and history, I made an account earlier this year to be a companion to those efforts

[Giles N]

2 hours ago, Maztr_0n said:

as long as companies arent too stingy about long forgotten franchises, who wouldnt want to see "Ikari II" "Ghosts and Goblins" "Mega Man" "Bomberman" etc from the old days that never got to be on Atari

Just throwing in here, that GnG, and MegaMan are probably expensive to get licenses for, or at least not ‘free’.
GnG have 1.st level demo and I don’t think anything MegaMan-like exists for the 7800 in demo/homebrew scene. 
I would guess Ikari Warriors would at least cost some money, but then you have the paperwork, and - if you by ‘Ikari II’ means a new game - someone would have to create it; coding, music, graphics and all. Some production costs right there.

BomberMan would cost money, and if  there was a demo put out somewhere (I usually only browse or briefly test half-made demos, I may remember wrong), it would have to be fully completed and playtested.

 

If Atari wants to go for spending bigger money on licensed runs, either directly or partnering with a 3rd party company doing cart reproductions and other release-formats that could help advance interest in Ataris retro-systems (the 2600+, and possibly a 2600/7800 games module for Playmajis Polymega console), they should first secure licenses for already completed games known for their high quality, genuine retro-value or that it generates some Atari-does-what-Nintendidn’t-effect’. Secure linced runs for Rikki & Vikki, 1942, Toki, Pac Man Collection (even if had to be a re-arranged version where certain levels would have to be redesigned to use ‘actual real-Pac-Man Namco-levels - old or new), Super Pac-Man, Jr. Pac-Man.

Actually, - I think it would cost less (even if much) to get licensed re-runs done, than getting a license for an incomplete game which then needed additional production to be completed (payment for workhours of the devs).

Edited June 29 by Giles N