is it just hit or miss with software running correctly on actual C64 with SD2IEC combo?

[newTIboyRob]

I've been finding that it is hit or miss whether or not some C64 software I've downloaded and tried to use with the SD2IEC will work or not. And this often relates to the AUTOSWAP.LST concept of that being just the 1 drive. I am wondering if anyone has encountered the same, so I am just looking for some feedback here.

 

For example, with a very nice 3pack called Trio of a word processor, spreadsheet and file manager, I was able to successfully load, save, run and print data files to and from a blank data disk with autoswap on the word processor, yet with the calc program, when you enter a simple value into a cell, the whole program freezes, so that one has a program problem, without even getting close to trying out I/O situations. I couldn't get anywhere with the filer program due to strange disk errors:  it sets up the initial data disk fine and saves that initial data to it (which I saw back in c64 basic) so that tells me that the autoswap is indeed working as I saw it recorded the 3 names of Tom Dick Harry and the line lengths I set to 24, but then it encounters constant disk errors when trying to save any further data of the actual lines I tried to enter.  Very frustrating.

 

So is it often just that the programs somehow weren't encoded/transferred in a way that is compatible with the SD2IEC?  Sometimes there are problems with the programs themselves, sometimes compounded with AUTOSWAP.LST issues, the AUTOSWAP.LST actually working sometimes as evidenced by the flashing green light indicating a successful disk transfer on the SD2IEC, yet on other programs the SD2IEC is deader than a door nail. I would have liked to see that I could enter numbers in the calc program, (which is half the purpose of a spreadsheet) sans it locking up, and that filer program is exactly the type of program I have been seeking, so I find all this particularly distressing.

 

If someone has a few minutes to give a go to that Trio filer one especially and report back what they encountered, I would be most grateful. Or if you can just share your thoughts and shed some light on software with the SD2IEC, AUTOSWAP etc.  I'm just running the stock c64 and SD2IEC combo. Thanks!  The software I am referring to sources to here:  https://commodore.software/

Edited July 2 by newTIboyRob

[Rick Reynolds]

Which files(s) specifically within that software collection are you trying to get working?  I can give them a try on my setup.

[+OLD CS1]

In short, yes.  Remember the SD2IEC is just a drive emulator.  It does not have the CPU and RAM of a real 15x1 or CMD drive.  You can give it a ROM so that it can read back certain parts of ROM used to identify the drive, but any special software fast loaders or drive-based copy protection will not function on the device.  There are some built-in fast loader capabilities, such as JiffyDOS and Epyx FastLoad, and a few others, but esoteric ones will not work.  For example, as much as I love my WarpSpeed, it does not work with my SD2IEC.

[newTIboyRob]

Ok thanks to both of you for sharing.  I have a feeling it's often due to copy protection. @Rick Reynolds it is the software pack called Trio (word processor, spreasheet, filer) so if you just click that link and type Trio into the search, that 3 pack should come up.

Edited July 2 by newTIboyRob

[Rick Reynolds]

Ok, cool.  I didn't try the search at all.  Just tried one of the download links on that main page.  I have the .d64 now.  I'll see if it behaves any differently on my setup.

 

Oh, I've never messed with the AUTOSWAP features of the sd2iec before, so that might take a little learning on my part.

[newTIboyRob]

The AUTOSWAP feature has been another hit or miss from what I have seen. I know I have gotten it to work sometimes, say when I write down the name of the data disk and the name of the actual data file I have saved to that data disk while in the main program because then I see the file was listed as a file on that data disk in the directory back in C64 basic. That file wouldn't be sitting there on the data disk if the disk swap wasn't working, so there was my proof that it was. But there have been many programs from that website where it asks to insert a data disk and I can't get the program to continue, with DISK ERRORS all over the place.  

Edited July 2 by newTIboyRob

[+OLD CS1]

Not sure what kind of problem you are having with the autoswap feature.  I have done it both ways described in the manual and it works fine for me.  The only potential issue is keeping up with which disk you have selected.  I used it most recently to play The Last Ninja.

[newTIboyRob]

I'm wondering if it depends on which specific make of SD2IEC a person has?  Some have the actual swap buttons for disk 1 and disk 2 which make things easier, whereas mine has PREV and NEXT, which, although the same in theory, just often reach a dead point with the programs I've tried. I haven't tried any games, as I am more business-program oriented, but with programs that ask to insert a data disk, I would have thought that just hitting the NEXT button with the blank d.64 in the same directory and AUTOSWAP.LST would have/should have done the trick?  @OLD CS1  ... curious to see if you find any issues on your unit with file saving and retrieving if you also are up to trying that TRIO program's FILE program. The calc program froze when I tried to enter a value. I've never seen that, so wondering about that too.

 

And it's true that trying to remember which disk is in the drive is quite a test. It's like flying the plane blind. I may just have to resort to writing down on a piece of paper which disk is temporarily currently in use in the drive.

 

I'm curious... is a blank .d64 considered the same as a pre-formatted physical floppy, or does that blank too have to be first used with my SD2IEC's NEXT button, so it's sitting in the virtual drive and needing to be formatted when I come across programs that call for "FORMAT A DISK"?   I've seen that option asking for disk formatting thus far on several programs which were designed originally for physical old school floppy drives.

Edited July 4 by newTIboyRob

[+OLD CS1]

59 minutes ago, newTIboyRob said:

@OLD CS1  ... curious to see if you find any issues on your unit with file saving and retrieving if you also are up to trying that TRIO program's FILE program.

Not likely any time soon.  I have far too much on my plate, already.

 

1 hour ago, newTIboyRob said:

I would have thought that just hitting the NEXT button with the blank d.64 in the same directory and AUTOSWAP.LST would have/should have done the trick?

That should, yes.  Say you have three D64s in the directory: PROG1.D64, PROG2,D64, and WORK.D64 (the last being your work disk, blank or otherwise.)  Having all three filenames in the AUTOSWAP.LST file should allow you to cycle through all three disks.  Bearing in mind that after CDing to the directory holding these files, you need to press the NEXT button to mount the first disk in the list.  Break out of the autoswap cycle with the DOS command "CD←".

 

1 hour ago, newTIboyRob said:

I'm curious... is a blank .d64 considered the same as a pre-formatted physical floppy, or does that blank too have to be first used with my SD2IEC's NEXT button, so it's sitting in the virtual drive and needing to be formatted when I come across programs that call for "FORMAT A DISK"?   I've seen that option asking for disk formatting thus far on several programs which were designed originally for physical old school floppy drives.

The D64 format is contrary to the concept of an unformatted disk^†.  I thought we figured out elsewhere that the SD2IEC does not support full formatting (NEWing, n0:name,id) but only a quick format (n0:name), but I just did a full format of a D64 and it worked fine.  Thus, using an existing D64 in a program which will format a disk is functionally possible.  But, if you are not keeping track of what D64 is mounted, you could wind up unintentionally erasing the wrong D64.

 

† I suppose one could create an empty file 174,848 bytes in size with a D64 extension.  I do not know if such a file would mount to begin with, but if it could, perhaps an N0: command would work.  Would be an interesting experiment, with no practical application.

[newTIboyRob]

1 hour ago, OLD CS1 said:

That should, yes.  Say you have three D64s in the directory: PROG1.D64, PROG2,D64, and WORK.D64 (the last being your work disk, blank or otherwise.)  Having all three filenames in the AUTOSWAP.LST file should allow you to cycle through all three disks.  Bearing in mind that after CDing to the directory holding these files, you need to press the NEXT button to mount the first disk in the list.  Break out of the autoswap cycle with the DOS command "CD←".

I am running these software programs like TRIO from the FB64 menu. Once the prg is loaded and I am into the inner workings of the program, that is where I see the FORMAT a data disk concept, I mean, it is from the actual program's menu. I've been pressing the NEXT button at that juncture, where it asks to insert a disk, but on some programs, as I say, it won't let me proceed with the blank disk for data. In other words, the NEXT button doesn't do anything. So since I am already in the actual program, I couldn't break out of the autoswap cycle with the DOS command "CD←" if I am "trapped" so to speak in the actual program then could I?

 

Perhaps I should try making an isolated directory such as TRIO, putting its disk image which has the 3 programs on it in said directory along with the AUTOSWAP.LST file and try running the software from C64 basic with LOAD "*",8 ?  Maybe that might work?

 

1 hour ago, OLD CS1 said:

The D64 format is contrary to the concept of an unformatted disk^†.  I thought we figured out elsewhere that the SD2IEC does not support full formatting (NEWing, n0:name,id) but only a quick format (n0:name), but I just did a full format of a D64 and it worked fine.  Thus, using an existing D64 in a program which will format a disk is functionally possible.  But, if you are not keeping track of what D64 is mounted, you could wind up unintentionally erasing the wrong D64.

I am a bit lost here. In the actual software, where it asks to format a disk, I should just be able to put my blank.d64 and shouldn't the software be taking it from there, preparing it for data saving in use along with the main program disk?

Edited July 4 by newTIboyRob

[+OLD CS1]

7 hours ago, newTIboyRob said:

I've been pressing the NEXT button at that juncture, where it asks to insert a disk, but on some programs, as I say, it won't let me proceed with the blank disk for data. In other words, the NEXT button doesn't do anything.

Have you tested this configuration outside of the TRIO software?  Simply, just at a DOS wedge, press NEXT, list a directory, press NEXT, list that directory, to see if the swap is occurring.  (In the absence of a DOS wedge, use LOAD"$",8 after every NEXT press.)

 

7 hours ago, newTIboyRob said:

So since I am already in the actual program, I couldn't break out of the autoswap cycle with the DOS command "CD←" if I am "trapped" so to speak in the actual program then could I?

Some programs offer a DOS command option where you can send a command to the drive.  Maybe TRIO does.

 

7 hours ago, newTIboyRob said:

Perhaps I should try making an isolated directory such as TRIO, putting its disk image which has the 3 programs on it in said directory along with the AUTOSWAP.LST file and try running the software from C64 basic with LOAD "*",8 ?  Maybe that might work?

This is the way I would do it.  I think the way you are doing it now should work, too.  By "three programs," I assume you mean the three D64s for the TRIO software, correct?  Remembering that your blank.d64 should also be in the directory and listed in the AUTOSWAP.LST file, pressing NEXT the appropriate number of times to swap it into place.

 

7 hours ago, newTIboyRob said:

I am a bit lost here. In the actual software, where it asks to format a disk, I should just be able to put my blank.d64 and shouldn't the software be taking it from there, preparing it for data saving in use along with the main program disk?

If all is configured correctly, this is the behavior I would expect.

[newTIboyRob]

4 hours ago, OLD CS1 said:

This is the way I would do it.  I think the way you are doing it now should work, too.  By "three programs," I assume you mean the three D64s for the TRIO software, correct?  Remembering that your blank.d64 should also be in the directory and listed in the AUTOSWAP.LST file, pressing NEXT the appropriate number of times to swap it into place.

By "three programs", I meant that all 3 programs: TRIO WORD, TRIO CALC, TRIO FILE are all as-is found on the same 1 disk image. So I was thinking here about making 3 different individual and isolated copies of the program disk so that each program is sitting in its own isolated folder with its data disk and AUTOSWAP.LST, thus 1 folder for TRIO WORD its TRIOWDATA and AUTOSWAP.LST containing only those 2 names .d64 in its own folder ... and then repeat the same concept for TRIO CALC and TRIO FILE?  (There are a lot of other files on that 1 disk image that contains those 3 programs.)

Edited July 4 by newTIboyRob