shane857 Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 1 hour ago, r_chase said: Fingers crossed that they'll distribute it to the US on Amazon. 🤞 It definitely looks cool. Yes maybe more for the casual gamer or people curious about the ZX Spectrum who never owned one back in the day. Does it take an SD card and are you able to load your own roms? Me personally thou, I think I'll just save some money and purchase a NEXT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 30 minutes ago, shane857 said: It definitely looks cool. Yes maybe more for the casual gamer or people curious about the ZX Spectrum who never owned one back in the day. Does it take an SD card and are you able to load your own roms? Me personally thou, I think I'll just save some money and purchase a NEXT. Yes, just like all the other "The" it takes SD cards and you can load your own games. It's going to have other special features too, but that won't be revealed until Tuesday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 Perhaps RGL expect the European market being strong enough to release a system without relying on the American sales? The mind is boggling at a thought like that, a mass market product not primarily intended for US customers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots.genoa Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 (edited) Well, technically the European market is bigger than the US one, even though the ZX Spectrum was not popular in every European country (mostly UK and Spain) but it was (and still is) very popular in Russia. Maybe I'm wrong, but the Atari 400 Mini looked riskier to me (but I guess it was mostly backed by Atari); after all there has been other Spectrum-based hardware in recent years like the Vega, which is not the case for the Atari 8-bit afaik. Edited August 24 by roots.genoa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 1 hour ago, carlsson said: Perhaps RGL expect the European market being strong enough to release a system without relying on the American sales? The mind is boggling at a thought like that, a mass market product not primarily intended for US customers. Not that you're implying that, but I of course never once said it was necessary to sell well in the US, but, to be fair, this is the first product from them that most US consumers, even those relatively into retro gaming and computing, will have little-to-no idea about, and certainly have the hardest time yet getting into thanks to the audio-visuals and other idiosyncrasies of the platform. I for one LOVE the idea that retro enthusiasts in the US - outside of the harder core ones such as myself - will at least have an opportunity to consider/evaluate the platform with a product like this. This is the first Spectrum-centric product I can recall that will have a good chance of reaching a wider US audience since the 2015 Rare Replay compilation for Xbox. I'm also glad that they skipped the Mini phase with this product and went straight to a working keyboard (Maxi), albeit a keyboard that's not super friendly to casual users (though certainly authentic). Still, I 100% agree with the strategy. We'll know more on Tuesday, but it sounds like there will be some special features with THE SPECTRUM as well (tip from a conversation I had with Andrew Owen). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 (edited) There is another aspect of it: from a gaming perspective, if we limit ourselves to systems released before 1989, there barely is a single noteworthy system left to recreate that ever had a market presence in the US. NES is done, C64 and VIC-20 are done, Amiga is done, Atari 2600, 7800 and 8-bit are now done. I don't know if the Sega Master System ever had much of a recognition, and to be honest I don't recall if it has been recreated in modern hardware in recent years. What is left, TurboGrafx-16? Intellivision? Colecovision? Atari ST? Apple II perhaps, but there is barely any chance in Hell that Apple would license a such product, or make one themselves. TRS-80 CoCo seems like a novelty, and the same could be said about TI-99/4A in the masses. What did I miss which is reasonably doable? It means either the market for this kind of devices is closed or only has room for repetition, or it needs to be opened even for systems that did well elsewhere but not in the US. The ZX Spectrum clearly fits that bill. The MSX family too, if you look at it from a Japanese perspective and partly European. After those, the familiar systems begin to thin out even worldwide, unless SMS as mentioned above. Computers like Amstrad CPC, BBC Micro/Electron, Dragon 32, Oric all were nerds only, at least if we fast forward the clock 40 years. Consoles are even more scarce in the time period before the Genesis/Mega Drive and PlayStation, which both already were minified anyway. Edited August 24 by carlsson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r_chase Posted August 24 Author Share Posted August 24 40 minutes ago, carlsson said: There is another aspect of it: from a gaming perspective, if we limit ourselves to systems released before 1989, there barely is a single noteworthy system left to recreate that ever had a market presence in the US. NES is done, C64 and VIC-20 are done, Amiga is done, Atari 2600, 7800 and 8-bit are now done. I think we need to get started on Dreamcast. Another thing is the N64 is being done as we speak though. So...we're getting to that point of going for more recent systems. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 Yeah, some people still are waiting for Atari to release the Jaguar+ but I'm not sure it will happen. I see you skipped the Saturn there. Certainly, from the 2024/2025 perspective, a system which was released 30 years ago and a system released 40 years ago are nearly the same thing, and perhaps it is time for the slightly younger to have their slew of nostalgia soon, if it is economical to produce and sell. Anyway, I'm sure RGL has crunched the numbers and came to the conclusion that even if there are a bunch of nerd level, low volume ZX recreations, there still is room and market for their product, regardless on which markets it will sell more or less. They've been in this game for a couple years now and make so much hype marketing about "next release coming this quarter" that they likely don't take chances. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 1 hour ago, carlsson said: There is another aspect of it: from a gaming perspective, if we limit ourselves to systems released before 1989, there barely is a single noteworthy system left to recreate that ever had a market presence in the US. NES is done, C64 and VIC-20 are done, Amiga is done, Atari 2600, 7800 and 8-bit are now done. I don't know if the Sega Master System ever had much of a recognition, and to be honest I don't recall if it has been recreated in modern hardware in recent years. What is left, TurboGrafx-16? Intellivision? Colecovision? Atari ST? Apple II perhaps, but there is barely any chance in Hell that Apple would license a such product, or make one themselves. TRS-80 CoCo seems like a novelty, and the same could be said about TI-99/4A in the masses. What did I miss which is reasonably doable? For another "The" system there's still a full-sized Amiga and full-sized Atari 8-bit as likely. Beyond that, I could see Atari ST and Amstrad systems, though both have a US issue as well, with the Amstrad obviously not even having a US presence. There's also an outside chance for MSX. But yeah, for them, I don't see much else being an option, though just that can easily get them a minimum of five more years of products. An Apple II would be a big deal, but that's like getting Nintendo to license videogame stuff to third parties. Not going to happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 Isn't the full sized Amiga more or less confirmed? Though I don't know why, for playing strategy games that rely on the keyboard? Unlike the 8-bit machines, the Amiga didn't really have a programming language built in for anyone today to fiddle with. It won't take 3.5" floppy disks or most likely have any legacy ports anyway, just the keyboard. Who is calling the bets for the Atari line, I don't know but I would assume Atari themselves hold the strings there, just like Nintendo determines which Nintendo products to release. Except for when we have our retro gaming exhibitions, I have never played an Amstrad and to me it has no particular gaming value but perhaps I missed out on some titles done better or not being available elsewhere. I'm not a big fan of the ZX Spectrum neither, but I recognize how much it meant to home computer games in the UK and large parts of rest of Europe, next to the Commodores. MSX would work as it is the most console like and Konami had a solid output (plus many others). In that case it would sell more based on the games included than the system it emulates. Of course an mini arcade system could work just as well in that case. I don't know how profitable each of the previous systems were. The NES Mini and SNES Mini appear to have sold well, not sure about the others. Of course if Apple had wanted to enter the market, they had the chance around then but unlike Nintendo they don't have any 1st party games worth mentioning. It is about as bad as Commodore, or perhaps even worse to have to entirely rely on 3rd party publishers. I remember one more system now that is easily overlooked: PC DOS. There was some thread a couple of years ago about a mini PC with 80's capacities but quite overpriced. I never looked up what became of that project. I suppose someone like RGL could get that done, but the question is which visual factor should represent this generation. IBM? Compaq? Generic gray box? Of course the same could be asked regarding MSX as it also was a standard with dozens of companies making compatible computers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wongojack Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 @carlsson, you nailed it. A2, Tandy and Ti994a are the ones missing. I'm thinking all of those were way bigger than something like Amstrad or MSX in the USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 Amstrad and CoCo/Dragon 32 (essentially the same machine, even if they were not 100% compatible) are perhaps on the same level to me. Both have decent libraries but did people play those games because they had that model of computer, or because the games were particularly memorable? TI was early on the market, but left rather quickly, essentially 1979-84 and with their technology to block most 3rd party publishers, a half decade before Nintendo tried something similar, the games library was a bit limited. Another system I didn't consider above and still not sure if it ever was much of a gaming computer, is the Macintosh. The original one from 1984 cost a small fortune and with its monochrome graphics was better suited for productivity than games, even of the strategy type. As you know from being part of the weekly tracker, we barely ever have any Mac logged, neither the early 68K ones, nor the PPC ones from the 90's or even modern OSX games. If Apple can't/won't make an A2 Mini, I suppose it is even less likely to make a Mac Mini (ok, I know there is a computer with that name, but it is something completely different). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots.genoa Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 8 hours ago, carlsson said: What is left, TurboGrafx-16? The PC Engine Mini already exists. A Master System Mini could be done, but it wasn't successful in the US but most of all it wasn't successful in Japan, and SEGA is a Japanese company. The Saturn was a success in Japan (and most surveys ask for that currently), but it's still hard to emulate on a small PC like a RPi. 7 hours ago, r_chase said: the N64 is being done as we speak though Wait, what? If you're talking about the Analogue 3D, that's not the same thing at all. 6 hours ago, carlsson said: Isn't the full sized Amiga more or less confirmed? It was supposed to be coming in 2024 indeed, but no news since November afaik. 6 hours ago, carlsson said: I have never played an Amstrad and to me it has no particular gaming value but perhaps I missed out on some titles done better or not being available elsewhere. The CPC was very big in France and Spain, basically. It's clearly the most popular classic computer in France. So I'm not sure if it's enough for a mini system. The reason why the CPC was successful here is it was way cheaper than the Amiga and the ST (being far less powerful of course), and the monitor was included (which was an important feature back when the whole family had to share one TV set). A few arcade ports are better on the CPC than on other 8-bit computers, and people might find graphics a lot more colorful than on the C64. Also bear in mind that a Mini PC-8801 has just been announced in Japan, and it's already the third mini computer in that series (not counting the X68000Z, from another company). What I mean is the success of video game systems varied a lot in the 80s depending on the regions of the world, so the fact a mini system doesn't make sense from a US perspective doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't from a European or Japanese perspective. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shane857 Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 18 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said: Not that you're implying that, but I of course never once said it was necessary to sell well in the US, but, to be fair, this is the first product from them that most US consumers, even those relatively into retro gaming and computing, will have little-to-no idea about, and certainly have the hardest time yet getting into thanks to the audio-visuals and other idiosyncrasies of the platform. I for one LOVE the idea that retro enthusiasts in the US - outside of the harder core ones such as myself - will at least have an opportunity to consider/evaluate the platform with a product like this. This is the first Spectrum-centric product I can recall that will have a good chance of reaching a wider US audience since the 2015 Rare Replay compilation for Xbox. I'm also glad that they skipped the Mini phase with this product and went straight to a working keyboard (Maxi), albeit a keyboard that's not super friendly to casual users (though certainly authentic). Still, I 100% agree with the strategy. We'll know more on Tuesday, but it sounds like there will be some special features with THE SPECTRUM as well (tip from a conversation I had with Andrew Owen). I agree, it was a good idea to go with the working keyboard. It could sell quite well in the US. I'm sure there are many people intrigued by this recreation 8 bit UK home computer. I own an original ZX Spectrum 48k+ so probably won't be picking this up. The only benefits to me would be the HD output and instant game loading. It's great they have released this thou.. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 13 hours ago, roots.genoa said: PC Engine Mini [..] Mini PC-8801 [..] X68000Z Hm yes. I remember the PC Engine one and may have seen the NEC PC-xxxx ones mentioned. Previously I got the impression that Japanese was as forward-only looking as Apple people, but it appears that Japan lately have begun embracing retro to a bigger degree than they used to, and probably the home market is big enough for releases of such machines without caring about rest of the world (or even exporting those). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loccy Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 (edited) Back to the topic of the Retro Games "The Spectrum", isn't Retro Games affiliated with/part of Plaion, of Atari 2600+ fame? I have a working instance of every UK model of Spectrums (Spectra?) along with a Spectrum Next and an Omni, so I probably won't be buying one of these, although I'm a big fan of what Retro Games have done with the things like The C64 and also Plaion with the Atari 2600+. The thing that really bugs me is the big embossed "Retro" rather than Sinclair - a shame they couldn't licence the Sinclair name. To be honest given that the Spectrum Next and the Recreated Spectrum both managed to licence the name, I can't imagine it would cost a lot. Sky TV are current holders, I think, and they've always been really supportive of the Retro community. Paging @Ben from Plaion - have you had any sight of this one? Edited August 26 by Loccy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 2 hours ago, Loccy said: Back to the topic of the Retro Games "The Spectrum", isn't Retro Games affiliated with/part of Plaion, of Atari 2600+ fame? I have a working instance of every UK model of Spectrums (Spectra?) along with a Spectrum Next and an Omni, so I probably won't be buying one of these, although I'm a big fan of what Retro Games have done with the things like The C64 and also Plaion with the Atari 2600+. The thing that really bugs me is the big embossed "Retro" rather than Sinclair - a shame they couldn't licence the Sinclair name. To be honest given that the Spectrum Next and the Recreated Spectrum both managed to licence the name, I can't imagine it would cost a lot. Sky TV are current holders, I think, and they've always been really supportive of the Retro community. Paging @Ben from Plaion - have you had any sight of this one? It's an RGL product and Plaion distributes it. Someone else in the business deals with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 Perhaps it is on purpose? I don't know how much Commodore would have charged to put their name and logotype on THEC64 or THEA500 but the money probably was better spent on other things than a logotype. Also it is an excellent way to superficially even on a medium low resolution image, distinguish the replica from original gear in case someone tries to flog used items later. I'm a strong advocate against perfect replicas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shane857 Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 I have to be honest 'The Spectrum' has a great list of 48 built in games. A lot I actually own and have played, some not. Saboteur Remastered intrigues me.. Alien Girl (Skirmish Edition) Ant Attack Army Moves Auf Wiedersehen Monty Avalon Bobby Bearing Cosmic Payback Devwill Too ZX Exolon Fairlight Firelord Football Manager 2 Freddy Hardest The Great Escape Head Over Heels Highway Encounter The Hobbit Horace Goes Skiing Jack the Nipper Knot in 3D The Lords of Midnight Manic Miner Match Day II Movie Nodes of Yesod Penetrator Phantis (Game Over II) Pheenix Pyracurse Quazatron Robin of the Wood Saboteur! Remastered Shovel Adventure Skool Daze Snake Escape Spellbound Starquake Starstrike II El Stompo Stonkers Target: Renegade TCQ Technician Ted – The Megamix Tenebra Trashman The Way of the Exploding Fist Wheelie Where Time Stood Still 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinite.pies Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 5 hours ago, Loccy said: The thing that really bugs me is the big embossed "Retro" rather than Sinclair - a shame they couldn't licence the Sinclair name. To be honest given that the Spectrum Next and the Recreated Spectrum both managed to licence the name, I can't imagine it would cost a lot. Sky TV are current holders, I think, and they've always been really supportive of the Retro community. I don't mind the "Retro" branding, and it does clearly distinguish it from an original. At the incredibly low price they're selling this for, there can't be much room for paying licensing fees, however small they may be. In fact, I can't see how they're making much of a margin at all, especially with 48 games included. The Next was more than 3 times the price (albeit with much more expensive components), but was sold direct so there were no retailers' margins to pay. Once you take out sales tax such as VAT and the retailer's margin from the price, there can't be an awful lot left after development, manufacturing and distribution costs. They must need to sell a lot to make it worthwhile, although I'm sure it will be a success and will sell considerably more than the Next ever did. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r_chase Posted August 27 Author Share Posted August 27 (edited) Well, I'm still waiting for the official announcement and yet today is Tuesday over here Yeah, this is gonna be a long 2 months. Edited August 27 by r_chase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinite.pies Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 The announcement has happened, and it seems to be available only in Europe at the moment. Over a thousand already sold on Amazon UK alone. Do I buy one? I have an original Spectrum and an N-Go, but another version wouldn't hurt? I see the C64 Maxi has also been re-released on Amazon UK, so maybe I could pop one of those into my shopping basket at the same time to get a better deal on the combined shipping cost? 🫣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 20 minutes ago, infinite.pies said: The announcement has happened, and it seems to be available only in Europe at the moment. Over a thousand already sold on Amazon UK alone. Do I buy one? I have an original Spectrum and an N-Go, but another version wouldn't hurt? I see the C64 Maxi has also been re-released on Amazon UK, so maybe I could pop one of those into my shopping basket at the same time to get a better deal on the combined shipping cost? 🫣 I ordered from Amazon UK a few days back. I'm not surprised there's not a US release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r_chase Posted August 27 Author Share Posted August 27 Damn. I was hoping for something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 I get the feeling RGL is having more luck with distribution and resellers in Europe than in North America. Perhaps it is easier on a fragmented market to reach some countries than enter a huge market where people expect the same availability across the entire continent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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