WDS/100 Personality card questions.

[RickyDean]

I just got my personality card operational after about 4 + years setting in the pile waiting for me to get some time for her. I replaced all the sockets, and found a couple of micro breaks, in two traces right next to the pad they were to connect too, then replaced the 74ls27 IC that I had just placed on there a couple of years ago in the attempt where I created the micro breaks, and well, I got her to come up and can view the CRU's in Fred's DU2k, but it looks odd to me .

In the picture you can see that it is using 2 cru address's. The question is is this normal? Or could I have a short or something make it read twice.

The rom's are new, from @atrax27407 and clearly marked upper and lower for the two locations on the top left of the card.

I don't know what the bottom two rom looking NEC chips are on the lower left, maybe some Ram? Anyhow till I understand this, I'm not going to hook up the SASI card or a drive yet.

[+Schmitzi]

wow that sounds good at all.

About the 2 DSRs, I did not use/test my WDS yet and sorry, have not enough time at the moment to dig it out and test it 

But 2 DSRs sounds a bit strange to me...

 

[+FarmerPotato]

I think you’re right that the decoding  is off. Is there a schematic?

 

The CRU base should be at 1000. I’m not aware that it could be changed. Sounds like a short. The decoder should match on 1000, or
 

 

A3 A4 A5 A6 A7 

 1.  0.  0.  0.  0.  >1000 

 1.  0.  1.  0.  0.   >1400

 1.  0.  1.  1.  0.  >1600

 

First question I have is:  where does this hint at a short or break?

After address buffer ‘244 at least. At this point, address lines drive both ROM address and CRU address decoder for card select. Since you can read WDS1 in the ROM it’s more likely that the short is local to the decoder. But try to dump the whole DSR ROM and see if it is scrambled. 
 

If the decoder is similar to other cards it may have a ‘133 or ‘138 or misc logic involved. Maybe a ‘85 4-bit comparator. I don’t see an obvious Boolean error. Perhaps, A6 is shorted, even A5. Dunno how a break would produce this. 
 

If there is a bad ‘85 chip or poorly seated. Or an improbable combination of breaks and shorts maybe. 
 

 

I had the WDS/100 10MB from 1983-1988. Sold it to Jerry Coffey (CompuServe TI Forum sysop .) 

 

 

[RickyDean]

3 hours ago, FarmerPotato said:

I think you’re right that the decoding  is off. Is there a schematic?

 

The CRU base should be at 1000. I’m not aware that it could be changed. Sounds like a short. The decoder should match on 1000, or
 

 

A3 A4 A5 A6 A7 

 1.  0.  0.  0.  0.  >1000 

 1.  0.  1.  0.  0.   >1400

 1.  0.  1.  1.  0.  >1600

 

First question I have is:  where does this hint at a short or break?

After address buffer ‘244 at least. At this point, address lines drive both ROM address and CRU address decoder for card select. Since you can read WDS1 in the ROM it’s more likely that the short is local to the decoder. But try to dump the whole DSR ROM and see if it is scrambled. 
 

If the decoder is similar to other cards it may have a ‘133 or ‘138 or misc logic involved. Maybe a ‘85 4-bit comparator. I don’t see an obvious Boolean error. Perhaps, A6 is shorted, even A5. Dunno how a break would produce this. 
 

If there is a bad ‘85 chip or poorly seated. Or an improbable combination of breaks and shorts maybe. 
 

 

I had the WDS/100 10MB from 1983-1988. Sold it to Jerry Coffey (CompuServe TI Forum sysop .) 

 

 

Here's what I get when I change the switches on the 4 position switch:

0000 -1000 and 1200

1000 -1800 and 1A00

1100 - cyan screen

1110 -press any key to contnue

1111 - "        "         "       "

1001 -1900 and 1B00

1011 -press any key to contnue

1101 -1D00 and 1F00

0001 -1000 and 1300

0010 -press any key to contnue

0100 -1400 and 1600

 

It seems that when the 3rd switch is on I just get "press any key to contnue".

I've looked in the User Manual, but don't see a switch chart.

So these seems to be somewhat in tune whith your description.

I wonder if the switch has a short on the 3rd pin?

[+FarmerPotato]

You should be able to operate it with 1000 and stuck 1200.  Don't put a TIPI at 1200 at the same time 🙂

That third switch is probably broken. So you have a "stuck low" condition. 
 

The 74LS136 is four XOR gates with open collector outputs.  XOR is used here to compare two bits.  

 

The OC outputs, wired together with one +5V pull-up resistor, form a Wired-AND. Any match in a pair of bits will bring all 4  outputs to 0. 

Each switch delivers a 0 or 1.  If you want to activate at CRU block  0000 (plus 10000) , the switches must be 1111. Then if any single address bit is a 1, for example 0001, the final output is 0.  Only Four 0s address bits would result in the card being selected. 

The 4 3.3K resistors I guess are +5V pull-ups to produce a 1 when a switch is open. A closed switch must ground that.  (5V goes through 3.3K to GND)  Doing things the other way round would be wasteful. 
 

Um, this can't be right. Doesn't explain why two values for A6 give the same result. 

 

[Gary from OPA]

No picture of the back side of the PCboard.

 

Was this card used in geneve at one time.

 

Maybe it was setup to have a split cru like the horizon mod to run at two different cru addresses.

 

Strange that only 4 switches not 8 and missing some resistors.

 

The user manual also doesn't cover switches.

 

But the card was designed to have more than one in a peb box as well.

 

Most likely switch 3 is shorted, use a digital multimeter to check each line.

[RickyDean]

54 minutes ago, Gary from OPA said:

No picture of the back side of the PCboard.

 

Was this card used in geneve at one time.

 

Maybe it was setup to have a split cru like the horizon mod to run at two different cru addresses.

 

Strange that only 4 switches not 8 and missing some resistors.

 

The user manual also doesn't cover switches.

 

But the card was designed to have more than one in a peb box as well.

 

Most likely switch 3 is shorted, use a digital multimeter to check each line.

Here are a couple of views lit and unlit.

[RickyDean]

3 hours ago, FarmerPotato said:

You should be able to operate it with 1000 and stuck 1200.  Don't put a TIPI at 1200 at the same time 🙂

That third switch is probably broken. So you have a "stuck low" condition. 
 

The 74LS136 is four XOR gates with open collector outputs.  XOR is used here to compare two bits.  

 

The OC outputs, wired together with one +5V pull-up resistor, form a Wired-AND. Any match in a pair of bits will bring all 4  outputs to 0. 

Each switch delivers a 0 or 1.  If you want to activate at CRU block  0000 (plus 10000) , the switches must be 1111. Then if any single address bit is a 1, for example 0001, the final output is 0.  Only Four 0s address bits would result in the card being selected. 

The 4 3.3K resistors I guess are +5V pull-ups to produce a 1 when a switch is open. A closed switch must ground that.  (5V goes through 3.3K to GND)  Doing things the other way round would be wasteful. 
 

Um, this can't be right. Doesn't explain why two values for A6 give the same result. 

 

Here are the two binaries of the eproms. In the upper eprom it has two instances of the same thing. could that be causing it to show double?

WDS100 upper eprom.BIN WDS100 lower eprom.BIN

[Gary from OPA]

Have you tried running TST or CFG from horizon Ramdisk to see what happens and what crus come up as undefined..

[RickyDean]

No as I don't currently have a working Ramdisk, I haven't even thought of that since I only thought it would work with a ramdisk in the system. 

[Gary from OPA]

3 minutes ago, RickyDean said:

No as I don't currently have a working Ramdisk, I haven't even thought of that since I only thought it would work with a ramdisk in the system. 

It runs fine without a Ramdisk both the 8.14f and 8.42c

[Gary from OPA]

Myarc had also a habit using two crus for some devices, I can't remember if wds was like that as well, but their Ramdisk/512k would do 1000 and 1900, appearing twice. Something to do with how they did dsk and dsk1. We need someone with another working wds to chime in on this thread, it's been decades since it was around. Maybe look through old MicroPendium articles for clues on how it works as well.

[RickyDean]

1 minute ago, Gary from OPA said:

Myarc had also a habit using two crus for some devices, I can't remember if wds was like that as well, but their Ramdisk/512k would do 1000 and 1900, appearing twice. Something to do with how they did dsk and dsk1. We need someone with another working wds to chime in on this thread, it's been decades since it was around. Maybe look through old MicroPendium articles for clues on how it works as well.

Well I just ran the config and it is seeing two "WDSPersonalityCard" at 1400 and 1600.

[RickyDean]

I'm going to dig out a working Seagate MFM and find the 15mb program that Tony Knerr gave me back in the day and see if it formats and works. I can live with two CRU's being used as this card will eventually live in a TI only Peb somewhere in my computer room. But if I can deal with the dual reading issue I'd like to.

When I intially pulled it out of storage some years ago, I plugged it into what I though was a switching power supply PEB, but it was only a wisper fan regular one and I really blew this card and several others, just now recovering from some of those. This is the first time it even showed up since that day.

Edited August 2 by RickyDean

[Gary from OPA]

6 minutes ago, RickyDean said:

I'm going to dig out a working Seagate MFM and find the 15mb program that Tony Knerr gave me back in the day and see if it formats and works. I can live with two CRU's being used as this card will eventually live in a TI only Peb somewhere in my computer room. But if I can deal with the dual reading issue I'd like to.

When I intially pulled it out of storage some years ago, I plugged it into what I though was a switching power supply PEB, but it was only a wisper fan regular one and I really blew this card and several others, just now recovering from some of those. This is the first time it even showed up since that day.

Do you have the adapter board? As I thought it didn't directly support mfm drives without the ext. Adapter board.

 

I still searching around for an affordable mfm drive for my myarc hdfc. Closest I got is 150 cad for a 10mb half height in working order.

[RickyDean]

24 minutes ago, Gary from OPA said:

Do you have the adapter board? As I thought it didn't directly support mfm drives without the ext. Adapter board.

 

I still searching around for an affordable mfm drive for my myarc hdfc. Closest I got is 150 cad for a 10mb half height in working order.

Yes I had a complete system, sans the original drive system. I have two SASI boards one original to this system and an Adaptec, never tested.

 

Yeh, mfm drives are getting harder to find at affordable prices, that's why I'll use the ones I have till I get working images on my Drem and  Gesswin emulators, tested and working.

 

Edited August 2 by RickyDean

[Gary from OPA]

I looked at getting an emulator for mfm. But sadly with parts and shipping, both designs would run me between 300 to 400 cad.

 

Crazy as the Zuluscsi adapter emulator for my whtech card only cost me 50 cad with shipping as they are made right here locally in Toronto.

[RickyDean]

Well the Drem is a canadian product. I thought it'd be cheaper there. You can have pcb's made from the Gesswin files I think. I bought my three boards from him though, then built them myself.

Edited August 2 by RickyDean
spelling

[RickyDean]

I can confirm the switch 3 issue is not in the switch. I've socketed that and replaced the switch, same issues. Maybe tomorrow night I will start tracing the circuit for switch three down and see if I find an issue in an IC or my solder points.

[Gary from OPA]

1 hour ago, RickyDean said:

Well the Drem is a canadian product. I thought it'd be cheaper there. You can have pcb's made from the Gesswin files I think. I bought my three boards from him though, then built them myself.

Strange as I have not found any Canadian supply of drem. Maybe I will ask the local store here where I bought the Zuluscsi from.

[+Ksarul]

22 minutes ago, Gary from OPA said:

Strange as I have not found any Canadian supply of drem. Maybe I will ask the local store here where I bought the Zuluscsi from.

Drem is made by PortaOne in BC.

[Gary from OPA]

20 minutes ago, Ksarul said:

Drem is made by PortaOne in BC.

Not any cheaper direct from source. Still around 442 cad ... 319 usd to cad . Ugh. Might as well just buy a couple of  real 10mb Seagate mfm drives at that price.

Edited August 2 by Gary from OPA

[JasonACT]

7 hours ago, RickyDean said:

Well I just ran the config and it is seeing two "WDSPersonalityCard" at 1400 and 1600.

As @FarmerPotato says there are 2 x 74LS136 chips (quad XOR gates) which one gate basically says "are these values different, or the same" and the dip switch is sending in signals pulled up/down by the resistors (probably up) with the switch in one position, and the opposite in the other position (probably ground).

 

I'd swap those 2 chips around and see if any of the CRU addresses change from your current testing.  If they change, one chip is bad (only 1, because only 1 address line seems to have an issue - EDIT: actually I think maybe 2 bits are not working 100%, so best not to assume only 1).

 

10 hours ago, FarmerPotato said:

Um, this can't be right. Doesn't explain why two values for A6 give the same result.

I think it might, if one of the gates is stuck in the enable state.

Edited August 2 by JasonACT

[RickyDean]

9 hours ago, JasonACT said:

As @FarmerPotato says there are 2 x 74LS136 chips (quad XOR gates) which one gate basically says "are these values different, or the same" and the dip switch is sending in signals pulled up/down by the resistors (probably up) with the switch in one position, and the opposite in the other position (probably ground).

 

I'd swap those 2 chips around and see if any of the CRU addresses change from your current testing.  If they change, one chip is bad (only 1, because only 1 address line seems to have an issue - EDIT: actually I think maybe 2 bits are not working 100%, so best not to assume only 1).

 

I think it might, if one of the gates is stuck in the enable state.

I swapped them, there was no change, so the issue is further downline from those I suppose. I'm a poet and don't know it

[Gary from OPA]

What happens if no switches are active at all. Does the card disappear.

 

I still wonder why there is missing resistors and place for more switches.

 

We need the schematic, do you have one?