WDS/100 Personality card questions.

[RickyDean]

1 minute ago, Gary from OPA said:

What happens if no switches are active at all. Does the card disappear.

 

I still wonder why there is missing resistors and place for more switches.

 

We need the schematic, do you have one?

No with the switch all set to off it reads as 1000 and 1200, if the 3rd switch is turned on at all, the card is lost, will not show up in CFG or DU2K.

Unless @Ksarul has schematics for it, I don't think they exist? I'll have to set down and trace back the 3rd switch pathway and check each chip associated with it.

When I blew the board the initial time years ago, it took out the leftmost 244 rather violently. destroyed the vcc trace at pin 20 and took out one of the 136's in the process as well as some collateral damage to the old sockets around the chip.

I removed and replaced about 2/3rds of the sockets and put in machine sockets and rebuilt the trace, plced in new chips, but it wouldn't work.

Got fed up and put it in the later pile.

That's where this adventure starts, I took it from the pile some years later and trying to bring it back to life, finished replacing the logic IC socket with machine sockets and replaced a bad 74ls27 that was replaced 4-5 years ago and bam... it comes up... only with this issue.

 

I figure that if switch 3 was working, I would see cru 1500 and 1700?

[Gary from OPA]

Check the resistors make sure they have some ohm's... If you have a t48 programmer, run the chips like 136 through it multiple times to test the logic gates. I been using mine to find bad 74ls chips to get my stack of bad horizon Ramdisks up and running. The 74 chip tester function comes in handy. Sometimes I have to have it do the the test like a dozen times in a row to find it is faulty.

 

Can you tell if the board is dual layer or multi layer. The geneve had issues with multi layer as the layers are so thin the ground plane can get shorted to another layer in points if there was a voltage surge that burned traces as the mica insulation gets holes in it.

[+FarmerPotato]

58 minutes ago, Gary from OPA said:

What happens if no switches are active at all. Does the card disappear.

 

that should just be one of the 16 valid addresses.
 

I imagined the switch was stuck, but  @JasonACT is right a stuck '136  XOR output would explain it. 
 

58 minutes ago, Gary from OPA said:

 

I still wonder why there is missing resistors and place for more switches.

Unused design area? Cards that have a '259 register at the CRU base would partially decode it. 4 more dip switches would fully decode it. Why I dunno. 

58 minutes ago, Gary from OPA said:

We need the schematic, do you have one?

 

[+FarmerPotato]

17 hours ago, RickyDean said:

Here are the two binaries of the eproms. In the upper eprom it has two instances of the same thing. could that be causing it to show double?

>800 offset implies that the A4 bit is stuck at 0. Or, your MiniPro doesn't do 2532A properly.  Do you have a TI 2532, Intel 2532  or TI 2532 A? 

[RickyDean]

Just now, FarmerPotato said:

>800 offset implies that the A4 bit is stuck at 0. Or, your MiniPro doesn't do 2532A properly.  Do you have a TI 2532, Intel 2532  or TI 2532 A? 

I didn't do these eproms. @atrax27407 had the honor. Somewhere I have the original eproms, just have to sniff them out of hiding. Things have a tendency to hide themselves around me.

[+Ksarul]

1 hour ago, Gary from OPA said:

I still wonder why there is missing resistors and place for more switches.

 

We need the schematic, do you have one?

Some missing components would be for the clock option that was available for this board, per the manual. As to a schematic, there has never been a Personality Card schematic in the wild, so far as I know. We'd have to reverse engineer one from the board. . .

[+InsaneMultitasker]

My memory may be playing tricks on me but I don't recall there being a DIP switch for the CRU setting.   The source code for the disk manager software sets the CRU to >1000 and the Personality Card setup manual does not contain a section for setting the CRU.  Is the DIP a hack to move the card to another CRU?  

[RickyDean]

30 minutes ago, InsaneMultitasker said:

My memory may be playing tricks on me but I don't recall there being a DIP switch for the CRU setting.   The source code for the disk manager software sets the CRU to >1000 and the Personality Card setup manual does not contain a section for setting the CRU.  Is the DIP a hack to move the card to another CRU?  

I don't think so, It was there from the day I got the card. @Schmitzi's card also has a switch in the same location

[+InsaneMultitasker]

7 minutes ago, RickyDean said:

I don't think so, It was there from the day I got the card. @Schmitzi's card also has a switch in the same location

Interesting. I wonder why the software/manual suggests otherwise. Maybe what I have is from a previous iteration. Another of life's mysteries.  

[atrax27407]

To properly do a TMS2532 (or any other TI-licensed 2532) on the MiniPro, you need an adapter and then program it as a TMS2732A. I have programmed more than a hundred at 21V without any problem, They are nominally a 25V chip but "The Great Kazoo" discovered years ago that the TMS2532 and TMS2532A are actually the same chip from the same die and program at either 21 or 25V.

 

Edited August 2 by atrax27407

[RickyDean]

7 minutes ago, atrax27407 said:

To properly do a TMS2532 (or any other TI-licensed 2532) on the MiniPro, you need an adapter and then program it as a TMS2732A. I have programmed more than a hundred at 21V without any problem, They are nominally a 25V chip but "The Great Kazoo" discovered years ago that the TMS2532 and TMS2532A are actually the same chip from the same die and program at either 21 or 25V.

 

I read the two files out with my mnipro using the TMS2732A setting shown in the picture and the pictures are what I got from the first eprom. Is this the right information or is there a problem in the eprom that could be causing it to show as two seperate cru addresses? Should I have used an adapter to read the eprom?

[RickyDean]

I found a manual- WD 1001 Winchester Disk Controller OEM Manual which I believe is for the WD1001-05 adapter card that the hard drive plugs onto. It mentions a Host Interface Connector, which is what our personality card is considered as, I believe for the purposes of this discussion. Maybe a pc Host Interface Connector is close in appearance and function to see if a schematic is available. Just shooting in the wind. I could do a schematic similar to the Corcomp style controller I've been working on.

80-031003-00_A1_WD1001_OEM_Manual_Feb83.pdf

Edited August 2 by RickyDean
added content

[RickyDean]

Strange thing is, if you look at older pictures I have posted in 2016, the switch was set with switch 3 on, this was before the frying episode that smoked the 244 IC discussed earlier.

 

[+FarmerPotato]

1 hour ago, RickyDean said:

I read the two files out with my mnipro using the TMS2732A setting shown in the picture and the pictures are what I got from the first eprom. Is this the right information or is there a problem in the eprom

Not a problem with your EPROM. Your MiniPro doesn't know how to read a TMS2532.  
 

Get a debugger, even MiniMemory Easy Bug. This assumes you can power on the card. Set CRU bit >1000 or whatever it is responding to today. That maps the card's DSR ROM to 4000. Read memory addresses >4000 and 4800.  You should not get two AAs. 
 

 

[+Ksarul]

One note that runs through my memory of dealing with Personality Cards in the past: that battery may actually be necessary for proper operation. . .

[RickyDean]

57 minutes ago, FarmerPotato said:

Get a debugger, even MiniMemory Easy Bug. This assumes you can power on the card. Set CRU bit >1000 or whatever it is responding to today. That maps the card's DSR ROM to 4000. Read memory addresses >4000 and 4800.  You should not get two AAs. 

Yes your right on M4000 I get AA and on M4800, I get 16. On both CRU's

 

 

 

Edited August 2 by RickyDean
spelling, added content

[RickyDean]

25 minutes ago, Ksarul said:

One note that runs through my memory of dealing with Personality Cards in the past: that battery may actually be necessary for proper operation. . .

I think that used to have a battery on here in the 90's. In or around 2003, I pulled it from storage and saw that the battery was starting to leak, so I removed it. But it still seemed to work, and it was set on switch 3 in 2016, so it must have been working at that time, before I blew it, and I do remember formatting a drive and using it somewhat in 03 before storing again, but that was a long time ago. So I'll look into a 3.6 volt battery option here as well.

Edited August 2 by RickyDean
spelling

[JasonACT]

6 hours ago, RickyDean said:

I swapped them, there was no change, so the issue is further downline from those I suppose.

6 hours ago, RickyDean said:

No with the switch all set to off it reads as 1000 and 1200, if the 3rd switch is turned on at all, the card is lost, will not show up in CFG or DU2K.

Ok, the chips are probably good then (given you replaced them, and swapping them around now doesn't change anything) so it's likely to be a trace issue - and we are seeing 2 address bits having issues.  Maybe check the continuity reading between the address lines on the output pins of the 244?  If none are shorted, check if they are still connected to the XOR chip's inputs.

Edited August 2 by JasonACT
output pins

[Gary from OPA]

If switch 3 was on at the time. Most likely it burned down the whole path. I would trace that side of the switch. Check the resistors, make sure the ohms are right and then are still pulling up to power I believe and check all the traces going into and out of the two 136 chips.

 

Most likely one side of the xor gates is not connected any more basically causing a always on reading from floating input.

[atrax27407]

I would assume that to read a TMS2532 with the MiniPro that you would also need an adapter to get an accurate read - the opposite of the one required for programming it.

Edited August 3 by atrax27407