What do I need to convert an NTSC 800XL to PAL?

[DistantStar001]

Just as the title says. I have two NTSC Atari 800XLs and am considering converting one to PAL. Both work great. Both have been modded for chroma/lumina. One has a membrane keyboard the other has carbon contacts (had to replaced the ribbon on that one). In any case, I have 6 Atari 8-bits, but none of them are PAL. And since I have the spare 800XL....

 

I saw this video on YouTube: 

But... Doesn't tell me any of the components I need

 

I know I need to replace the ANTIC and GTIA, but have seen contradicting information on the OS. I also know that i have to add a bunch of passive components and some Googling, I tried compile a list but would like to check it for accuracy:

Also, there's a 14-pin IC I haven't been able to identify yet.

[+tf_hh]

1 hour ago, DistantStar001 said:

Also, there's a 14-pin IC I haven't been able to identify yet.

This is a 74LS74 chip, you can also use 74HCT74, 74F74 or 74ALS74.

 

[Beeblebrox]

Aside the video circuit passive components, and of course the aforementioned pal antic and gtia chips, plus colourburst y2 crystal,  you'll need to source the pal system clock crystal c016112. The latter replaces the ntsc system clock crystal.

You can get one from a pal Atari 800xl or 600xl, or from a pal Atari 2600 Jr console. 

 

There is another way also. Invest in a sophia2 chip. It gives you the pal colourburst and video circuitry,  replaces the gtia chip so you don't have to source a pal GTIA, and also gives you a dvi output. It's amazing. 

https://thebrewingacademy.com/products/sophia-2-dvi-output-gtia-replacement

 

Another way is get a pal injector board. Tf_hh in Germany  sells them and dropcheck in the US used to.

The pal injector gives the pal colour circuit and colourburst, and sits under the gtia chip.

 

Edited August 16 by Beeblebrox

[DistantStar001]

25 minutes ago, tf_hh said:

This is a 74LS74 chip, you can also use 74HCT74, 74F74 or 74ALS74.

 

Thanks! I think I know where to get that.

24 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

Aside the video circuit passive components, and of course the aforementioned pal antic and gtia chips, plus colourburst y2 crystal,  you'll need to source the pal system clock crystal c016112. The latter replaces the ntsc system clock crystal.

 

As I understand it, the part you're referring to is the 3.546894 MHz Crystal currently at Y1. At least when i looked it up, the  part appears to have the same frequency?

[Beeblebrox]

1 hour ago, DistantStar001 said:

Thanks! I think I know where to get that.

As I understand it, the part you're referring to is the 3.546894 MHz Crystal currently at Y1. At least when i looked it up, the  part appears to have the same frequency?

The y1 ystem clock crystal in the ntsc has a different frequency to the pal y1 clock crystal, so they need swapping. The y2 colourburst crystal  is only used in pal machines as isn't present in ntsc.so as per my post earlier you'll need a pal system clock crystal.

[+kheller2]

The 800XL schematics list most of these components.   Although one wonders how accurate it is. 

[Mark loves Stella]

On 8/16/2024 at 12:19 AM, DistantStar001 said:

Just as the title says. I have two NTSC Atari 800XLs and am considering converting one to PAL. Both work great. Both have been modded for chroma/lumina. One has a membrane keyboard the other has carbon contacts (had to replaced the ribbon on that one). In any case, I have 6 Atari 8-bits, but none of them are PAL. And since I have the spare 800XL....

 

I saw this video on YouTube: 

But... Doesn't tell me any of the components I need

 

I know I need to replace the ANTIC and GTIA, but have seen contradicting information on the OS. I also know that i have to add a bunch of passive components and some Googling, I tried compile a list but would like to check it for accuracy:

Also, there's a 14-pin IC I haven't been able to identify yet.

I you are only needing compatibility, you only need to replace the ANTIC NTSC with an ANTIC PAL. In order to bypass an NTSC PAL check, you will also need to replace the GTIA. 

 

[_The Doctor__]

most PAL checks have been removed or can be removed.

[lbaeza]

Hi there

 

Found these crystals on Ebay:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/256199401836?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=47HsXjQYSm6&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=iPoYT8E3TwW&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

Originally for use on the ZX Spectrum, my guess is that the one at 4.433619 MHz should work OK on a PAL Atari.

 

Regards,

Luis.

Edited August 20 by lbaeza
Typo

[Beeblebrox]

25 minutes ago, lbaeza said:

Hi there

 

Found these crystals on Ebay:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/256199401836?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=47HsXjQYSm6&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=iPoYT8E3TwW&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

Originally for use on the ZX Spectrum, my guess is that the one at 4.433619 MHz should work OK on a PAL Atari.

 

Regards,

Luis.

A little more info is needed about what Atari 8bit you have and if you are also wanting to convert from ntsc to pal, which I assume you do given you are posting in this thread.

 

Do you have an XL or an XE? The XE system clock crystals are different from XL ones anyway. 

 

A 4.4336..mhz crystal would be for the pal colourburst, (y2). For an XL machine you would still need a y1 pal system clock crystal of 3.546894 MHz which you can only get from another pal Atari 800xl or.600xl, or a pal 2600 Jr console. 

 

FYI the exact pal colourburst crystal modern equivalent 4.433618 is easily sourced and very cheap.

 

For.example.in the uk mouser sells.a big bag of them for peanuts:

https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/ECS/ECS-44-20-1X?qs=CNVyLAqdhH3azVxIw5STTQ%3D%3D&countryCode=GB&currencyCode=GBP&_gl=1*nzx8dw*_ga*OTA5ODAxOTE2LjE3MjQxMzUxNzU.*_ga_15W4STQT4T*MTcyNDEzNTE3NS4xLjAuMTcyNDEzNTE4MC41NS4wLjA.

 

See also this thread in general btw:

 

 

 

 

[+slx]

On 8/16/2024 at 7:47 AM, Beeblebrox said:

 

Another way is get a pal injector board. Tf_hh in Germany  sells them and dropcheck in the US used to.

The pal injector gives the pal colour circuit and colourburst, and sits under the gtia chip.

 

I used one of @Dropcheck‘s boards to convert a 1200XL to PAL and it was very easy and convenient. 

[dabone]

I converted one of my 800xls, and I decided to go the lumacode route for video out.

 

Quote

Ok, to convert a NTSC 800xl to Pal with full color hdmi out you need the following.

 

These are from Best, using their pricing.

 

CO21698      (PAL XL / XE ANTIC)    $24.95
CO14889-01    (PAL GTIA)            $20.00
CO16112        (3.546894 MHz XTAL)    $2.50

 

Then you need a Raspberry Pi Zero with headers. ($16.00 from adafruit.)

 

Then from Copperdragons Tindie store.

 

GTIAdigitizer $39.00

RGBtoHDMI Mono & LumaCode $40.00

 

So, not the cheapest project, but it does look nice.

I'm around $160 to $170 after shipping, plus the actual 800XL.

This gives me HDMI out for the PAL unit, so I don't have to worry about converting it to something a old monitor can display properly.

 

Bonus part is that if you also have a 2600, Ti99 4/a, C64, Vic 20, C128, lumacode adapters are available for them, so you only need the luma code adapters to convert extra machines. (NES coming soon for NTSC)

[Beeblebrox]

1 hour ago, dabone said:

I converted one of my 800xls, and I decided to go the lumacode route for video out.

 

This gives me HDMI out for the PAL unit, so I don't have to worry about converting it to something a old monitor can display properly.

 

Bonus part is that if you also have a 2600, Ti99 4/a, C64, Vic 20, C128, lumacode adapters are available for them, so you only need the luma code adapters to convert extra machines. (NES coming soon for NTSC)

That's a good option video output wise. In the context of this  thread,  which is about converting an ntsc to pal machine, you still.need to do the other things in terms of system crystal, pal chips, and colourburst,  etc.

[dabone]

8 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

That's a good option video output wise. In the context of this  thread,  which is about converting an ntsc to pal machine, you still.need to do the other things in terms of system crystal, pal chips, and colourburst,  etc.

Yeah the first part of my quoted message covered that.. you only need these 3 parts to convert the ntsc unit to pal if using the lumacode to get hdmi out.
CO21698 (PAL XL / XE ANTIC), CO14889-01(PAL GTIA), CO16112 (3.546894 MHz XTAL).
 

The only monitors I know that actually support a PAL colorburst signal in the USA are the Sony PVM/BVMs... I happen to have two, but being able to have it hdmi out is so much easier.