Will there ever be a 5200+?

[shane857]

Probably not, in my opinion. The Gamestation pro and 400 mini already supports 5200 'roms'. I do not own either consoles

Here in the UK doing a search you pretty much get zero for searches on 5200. Even in the US the console and games are extremely rare..

Maybe if Atari actually re-released 5200 games on cart? 🤔

[JetmanUK]

I doubt it. Like you say the 400 Mini has this covered, of course not for carts though. I think the 5200, as much some love it on here, is just too niche a product to be commercially viable. 

[TheRingBearer]

Just now, JetmanUK said:

I doubt it. Like you say the 400 Mini has this covered, of course not for carts though. I think the 5200, as much some love it on here, is just too niche a product to be commercially viable. 

Perhaps, but I NEVER expected a 7800+ since the 2600+ plays both.

[Brad_from_the_80s]

Never say never, but...

 

Small library, with half or less originally published by Atari and half of those were licensed and probably not gonna happen.  Console was also discontinued after only a couple years and had very low sales of consoles and games, so not as common or available after market.  And would need a solve for bad and complex controllers while somehow remaining authentic.  And I'd venture it simply is not ever going to sell like the 2600+.  But I'm sure Ben will announce one next week or something, so I'm fine being wrong about everything

 

A point was made by someone about the 400 Mini that, while its 5200 support still has issues, most of the best 5200 games have 8-bit equivalents.  Sometimes they are practically the exact same game.

[Ben from Plaion]

9 minutes ago, JetmanUK said:

I doubt it. Like you say the 400 Mini has this covered, of course not for carts though. I think the 5200, as much some love it on here, is just too niche a product to be commercially viable. 

There are no current plans.

 

However note that actually the break even point on even niche machines is relatively achievable due to the reasonable but modest demand - hell I've been looking at a Magnavox Odyssey recently.

[JetmanUK]

5 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

There are no current plans.

 

However note that actually the break even point on even niche machines is relatively achievable due to the reasonable but modest demand - hell I've been looking at a Magnavox Odyssey recently.

That's pretty cool. 

[BassGuitari]

Just now, shane857 said:

Even in the US the console and games are extremely rare..

That's an overstatement. You won't see Atari 5200 stuff as much "in the wild" over here, but it's easy to find online.

 

But to answer the question: I wouldn't hold my breath, but never say never, I guess. I never thought there would even be a 2600+ (let alone 7800+), and here we are. 🤷‍♂️ 

 

7 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

However note that actually the break even point on even niche machines is relatively achievable due to the reasonable but modest demand - hell I've been looking at a Magnavox Odyssey recently.

Don't tease us Odyssey fans, now!

[NicodemusLegend]

Honestly, while I'm not in the camp that's actively looking for a 5200+ (and thus perhaps don't understand those for whom the 5200 was a bigger deal), it's a little hard for me to understand the complaints about the 7800+ being done instead of such a hypothetical device.

The 7800+ is a natural device to release precisely because the bulk of the work has already been done with the 2600+. They can get additional return on the investment of creating the 2600+ for comparatively little extra immediate expense. If it does well enough, "never say never" is certainly the correct attitude, but it's no surprise to me that any company wants to maximize their return on investments already made.

 

(Perhaps my attitude is influenced by the fact that I am, first and foremost, a Transformers fan. We've had to accept for years now that almost any new toy mold that's created will have multiple reuses as repaints and partial retoolings, and thus I see an analogy here in what Atari's done.)

Edited August 28 by NicodemusLegend

[tradyblix]

It would be cool, because the games for that system are good and they're different from the 2600/7800 versions. The problem with a cart only device would be that nobody has the 5200 carts. They're super rare. I've literally NEVER SEEN ONE IN THE WILD in my life, and I'm not young. So yeah.... probably wouldn't get it for that alone. 

[Ben from Plaion]

45 minutes ago, NicodemusLegend said:

Honestly, while I'm not in the camp that's actively looking for a 5200+ (and thus perhaps don't understand those for whom the 5200 was a bigger deal), it's a little hard for me to understand the complaints about the 7800+ being done instead of such a hypothetical device.

The 7800+ is a natural device to release precisely because the bulk of the work has already been done with the 2600+. They can get additional return on the investment of creating the 2600+ for comparatively little extra immediate expense. If it does well enough, "never say never" is certainly the correct attitude, but it's no surprise to me that any company wants to maximize their return on investments already made.

 

(Perhaps my attitude is influenced by the fact that I am, first and foremost, a Transformers fan. We've had to accept for years now that almost any new toy mold that's created will have multiple reuses as repaints and partial retoolings, and thus I see an analogy here in what Atari's done.)

Exactly.

 

It's down to the detail and the path of least resistance, and that's not being lazy it's business reality. Everyone I speak to starts off a conversation with why don't we do X, then quickly it boils down to, say it the case of 5200, what about it's size, it's controller, the cartridge socket, access to emulation, games IP ownership. Nothing insurmountable and can be financially modelled, but all those (not an extensive list) issues can be a blocker (temporary or permanent).

 

Personally I hope that Atari really crank up game releases, reissues are cool but newly developed games, that really gets people excited...but then it costs time and money.

 

I'd hazard a guess and say if Atari announced 50 x 2600/7800 games next year every one would break even and make a profit. But then that requires scaling up the operation.

 

Hope I'm not being negative, and I've said this before here, the wants and desires for prospective products that are easily made on Atari Age and internally within the team require so much detailed work to actually turn into a retail product.

 

We have a show here in the UK called Dragons Den (US version is shark tank) I recall a dragon saying a successful product is 5% idea and 95% execution, I remember thinking don't I fucking know it.

Edited August 28 by Ben from Plaion

[OscarGungan]

When I saw the Atari+ Platform branding, it suggested to me an intention of creating an ecosystem where everything works together.
It made me wonder that making other systems beyond the 2600/7800 that would have to be outside that ecosystem isn’t in the cards at this point. I have wondered are we going to see an Intellivision+ at some point. Not sure what the demand would be for that. 

[Defender_2600]

3 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Exactly.

 

It's down to the detail and the path of least resistance, and that's not being lazy it's business reality. Everyone I speak to starts off a conversation with why don't we do X, then quickly it boils down to, say it the case of 5200, what about it's size, it's controller, the cartridge socket, access to emulation, games IP ownership. Nothing insurmountable and can be financially modelled, but all those (not an extensive list) issues can be a blocker (temporary or permanent).

 

Personally I hope that Atari really crank up game releases, reissues are cool but newly developed games, that really gets people excited...but then it costs time and money.

 

I'd hazard a guess and say if Atari announced 50 x 2600/7800 games next year every one would break even and make a profit. But then that requires scaling up the operation.

 

Hope I'm not being negative, and I've said this before here, the wants and desires for prospective products that are easily made on Atari Age and internally within the team require so much detailed work to actually turn into a retail product.

 

We have a show here in the UK called Dragons Den (US version is shark tank) I recall a dragon saying a successful product is 5% idea and 95% execution, I remember thinking don't I fucking know it.

 

Considering the large Atari 8-bit library, the CX40 joysticks, the CX30 paddles, etc... it might make more sense to make an Atari XEGS+, maybe slightly revisited in aesthetics, with the plastic color updated from the original gray to a new "Atari black", and not supplied with the original additional keyboard. When necessary, a common PC keyboard (not included in the package) could be connected, as was done with THEC64 Mini etc. The new cartridges produced would obviously be compatible with the entire original Atari 8-bit line. The new XEGS+, with its console look, would fit between the 2600+ and the 7800+, as the natural successor to the 5200 but less expensive to design, more versatile, and with a large library to draw from. Just a thought.

 

 

P.S. Or, would you like a new shell?

 

Edited August 29 by Defender_2600

[+OLD CS1]

7 hours ago, tradyblix said:

The problem with a cart only device would be that nobody has the 5200 carts. They're super rare. I've literally NEVER SEEN ONE IN THE WILD in my life, and I'm not young. So yeah.... probably wouldn't get it for that alone. 

 

eBay: "atari 5200" (hehehe a lot more accessories than carts in this capture... I should have kept scrolling!)

 

Two of my friends had one in the 80s.  I have two (a 2-port and a 4-port) and a bunch of cartridges I have picked up over the years (including ones purchased right here from AtariAge.)

 

Now, if you mean you have never gone anywhere and been able to just pick up a random one, I might could see that.  Maybe.  I recently walked into a relatively obscure little games shop here in town and found several 5200 carts on their shelf.

 

I dig @Defender_2600's idea of an XEGS+.  I have more connection to that design and form factor than I do the 400.  Does the 400 Mini play 8-bit carts?  I considered a 400 Mini being that the 400 and 5200 are similar, and I have several Atari 8-bit carts in my library.  Even if its 5200 support was strong, how would I play my 5200 carts on it?

 

7 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Personally I hope that Atari really crank up game releases, reissues are cool but newly developed games, that really gets people excited...but then it costs time and money.

I do not mind re-issues, especially collections like your Epyx and M-Network collections in a cart.  But, while not terrible, $30 each feels a little off-putting.  But then, over in TI world we run into the same thing -- new releases are not inexpensive.  I also consider the Atari releases have boxes and books, and that BITD games were about $20 which is way more than $30 in today's money.

[+Gemintronic]

Why would I want a smaller lunch tray?  They'd probably get rid of the back compartments for sandwiches too.

[+OLD CS1]

Just now, Gemintronic said:

Why would I want a smaller lunch tray?  They'd probably get rid of the back compartments for sandwiches too.

Good point.  A 5200+ Maxi is required.

[+Gemintronic]

6 minutes ago, OLD CS1 said:

Good point.  A 5200+ Maxi is required.

 

Paying for running an emulator in a cheap ARM box doesn't seem incentive enough.  Definitely prefer "MAXI" type machines with full keyboard and as much expansion/versatility as possible (without resorting to unofficial firmware)

[+Fred_M]

4 hours ago, OLD CS1 said:

 

eBay: "atari 5200" (hehehe a lot more accessories than carts in this capture... I should have kept scrolling!)

 

Two of my friends had one in the 80s.  I have two (a 2-port and a 4-port) and a bunch of cartridges I have picked up over the years (including ones purchased right here from AtariAge.)

 

Now, if you mean you have never gone anywhere and been able to just pick up a random one, I might could see that.  Maybe.  I recently walked into a relatively obscure little games shop here in town and found several 5200 carts on their shelf.

 

I dig @Defender_2600's idea of an XEGS+.  I have more connection to that design and form factor than I do the 400.  Does the 400 Mini play 8-bit carts?  I considered a 400 Mini being that the 400 and 5200 are similar, and I have several Atari 8-bit carts in my library.  Even if its 5200 support was strong, how would I play my 5200 carts on it?

 

I do not mind re-issues, especially collections like your Epyx and M-Network collections in a cart.  But, while not terrible, $30 each feels a little off-putting.  But then, over in TI world we run into the same thing -- new releases are not inexpensive.  I also consider the Atari releases have boxes and books, and that BITD games were about $20 which is way more than $30 in today's money.

Please keep in mind that the 5200 was not sold outside the US. So in Europe 5200 cartridges and especially 5200 consoles are very rare.

[+Intellivision Master]

16 hours ago, shane857 said:

Maybe if Atari actually re-released 5200 games on cart? 🤔

That would be cool.

 

16 hours ago, TheRingBearer said:

Perhaps, but I NEVER expected a 7800+ since the 2600+ plays both.

The 7800+ came out of left field.  

 

16 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

There are no current plans.

😟

 

14 hours ago, OscarGungan said:

When I saw the Atari+ Platform branding, it suggested to me an intention of creating an ecosystem where everything works together.
It made me wonder that making other systems beyond the 2600/7800 that would have to be outside that ecosystem isn’t in the cards at this point. I have wondered are we going to see an Intellivision+ at some point. Not sure what the demand would be for that. 

Seeing the Atari+ Platform branding makes you wonder what is next?  Hopefully an INTV+ console is made.

[shane857]

2 hours ago, Intellivision Master said:

That would be cool.

 

The 7800+ came out of left field.  

 

😟

 

Seeing the Atari+ Platform branding makes you wonder what is next?  Hopefully an INTV+ console is made.

Hopefully an INTV+ console is made.

That would also be cool. I would definitely buy one..

[+OLD CS1]

6 hours ago, Fred_M said:

Please keep in mind that the 5200 was not sold outside the US. So in Europe 5200 cartridges and especially 5200 consoles are very rare.

Fair.  @tradyblix does not have a profile location set so I assumed here in the states.  At the same time, the blanket Millennial "super rare" attribution applied to the 5200 cannot not be made, either.

[Maztr_0n]

19 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Exactly.

 

It's down to the detail and the path of least resistance, and that's not being lazy it's business reality. Everyone I speak to starts off a conversation with why don't we do X, then quickly it boils down to, say it the case of 5200, what about it's size, it's controller, the cartridge socket, access to emulation, games IP ownership. Nothing insurmountable and can be financially modelled, but all those (not an extensive list) issues can be a blocker (temporary or permanent).

 

Personally I hope that Atari really crank up game releases, reissues are cool but newly developed games, that really gets people excited...but then it costs time and money.

 

I'd hazard a guess and say if Atari announced 50 x 2600/7800 games next year every one would break even and make a profit. But then that requires scaling up the operation.

 

Hope I'm not being negative, and I've said this before here, the wants and desires for prospective products that are easily made on Atari Age and internally within the team require so much detailed work to actually turn into a retail product.

 

We have a show here in the UK called Dragons Den (US version is shark tank) I recall a dragon saying a successful product is 5% idea and 95% execution, I remember thinking don't I fucking know it.

i'm hoping the sentiment i have about $30 retro games is what could make more things possible, like outside of nostalgia and what not. $30? Thats some fun!

[NicodemusLegend]

22 hours ago, OscarGungan said:

When I saw the Atari+ Platform branding, it suggested to me an intention of creating an ecosystem where everything works together.
It made me wonder that making other systems beyond the 2600/7800 that would have to be outside that ecosystem isn’t in the cards at this point. I have wondered are we going to see an Intellivision+ at some point. Not sure what the demand would be for that. 

Not an Intellivision+, perhaps, but what might the demand be for new Atari+ Platform cartridges of old Intellivision games? (This, of course, assumes that adding Intellivision emulation to the 2600+ is economically viable, which I won't weigh in on)

(I make this alternative suggestion on the understanding that, while the rights to the Intellivision properties now belong to Atari, the rights to the legacy game system that was in development limbo for the longest time remain elsewhere)

Edited August 29 by NicodemusLegend
Clarification

[+Fred_M]

32 minutes ago, NicodemusLegend said:

Not an Intellivision+, perhaps, but what might the demand be for new Atari+ Platform cartridges of old Intellivision games?

At the moment all released cartridges for the A+ platform are compatible with original hardware (2600 and 7800). Atari and Plaion even put a Pokey compatible sound chip in their new 7800 releases to make these releases 100% compatible. Personally I don't think that publishing cartridges which are not compatible with original hardware is a good idea. I like the way what they are doing now: releasing new games for the 7800 and even port great games from other systems (for example Bounty Bob Strikes Back) to the 7800.

 

What is an option, in my opinion, is a completely separate Intellivision+ platfrom with its own hardware and emulator. But that has be commercially viable anyway. Most of us here act like kids in a candy store, but that is (sadly) not a reality 😉

[tradyblix]

16 hours ago, OLD CS1 said:

 

eBay: "atari 5200" (hehehe a lot more accessories than carts in this capture... I should have kept scrolling!)

 

Two of my friends had one in the 80s.  I have two (a 2-port and a 4-port) and a bunch of cartridges I have picked up over the years (including ones purchased right here from AtariAge.)

 

Now, if you mean you have never gone anywhere and been able to just pick up a random one, I might could see that.  Maybe.  I recently walked into a relatively obscure little games shop here in town and found several 5200 carts on their shelf.

 

I dig @Defender_2600's idea of an XEGS+.  I have more connection to that design and form factor than I do the 400.  Does the 400 Mini play 8-bit carts?  I considered a 400 Mini being that the 400 and 5200 are similar, and I have several Atari 8-bit carts in my library.  Even if its 5200 support was strong, how would I play my 5200 carts on it?

 

I do not mind re-issues, especially collections like your Epyx and M-Network collections in a cart.  But, while not terrible, $30 each feels a little off-putting.  But then, over in TI world we run into the same thing -- new releases are not inexpensive.  I also consider the Atari releases have boxes and books, and that BITD games were about $20 which is way more than $30 in today's money.

I know you can find them on the internet. that's not what I meant. I knew someone would do this. 

 

I said, me personally in the wild, never seen one. Anyway. People always love to nitpick things. 

Edited August 29 by tradyblix

[+OLD CS1]

21 minutes ago, tradyblix said:

I said, me personally in the wild, never seen one. Anyway. People always love to nitpick things.

We do not need to belabor this, but I also included personal, picked-up-in-hand experience later in that post.  In my universe of samples, I have been able to walk into game stores and find 5200 cartridges.  I have been able to go to flea markets and swap shops and find 5200 cartridges.  I also knew people who had them BITD, so for my sampling that does not equate to "super rare."  Not a nit-pick, but an observation, and the eBay link was only to show that they are not "super rare," as it appears plenty of people have them, as a rebuttal of your personal experience.  Anyway.  People always love to take things personally.